To The Ex-christians And Atheists- Life, What’s The Point?

[Guest The believer]

I am a Christian or more specifically I am a born and raised Catholic. Over the years as I journey into adulthood I find my faith in God growing stronger. Today I accidentally stumbled on this site (got to love Google, it takes you to the opposite place you actually want to go) and started to read some of the testimonies from the “ex-Christians” and I became curious . I am not one who is afraid to “shop around” and let my faith regularly be challenged by anyone. But at the same time I am perfectly happy with my @#$ hole and do not need you to rip me a new one ;-). In other words I come in peace, seeking discussion and dialogue not debate…. I do not feel the need to wear my religion on my shoulder and be assured I am not here to convert you or even defend my religion (I will answer questions about it though, feel free to ask)….

 

I have not personally known many atheists and the ones that I have known could not really give me valid answers that had any sort of logic or effort put into them.

 

And so I ask:

What is the point of life without a God?

What happens after we die?

Life sucks sometimes, what is the point of enduring the pain?

 

I would love valid and thought out answers. Feel free to include answers to other related questions that I may not have asked. But you should get a general idea of what I am trying to ask from these three questions. Don’t be surprised if I ask another question to your response, this is not meant to be aggressive on my part; I am just searching for further understanding.

I do have my own answers of course, but I will not include them yet to avoid tarnishing the dialogue.

 

TO THE CHRISTIANS WHO WANT TO DEBATE, PLEASE BE ADULTS AND HOLD YOUR TONGUES THIS IS NOT A DEBATE. LET THE EX-CHRISTIANS ANSWER HONESTLY WITHOUT FEELING LIKE THEY ARE GOING TO BE VERBALLY ASSULTED (which seems to happen from both sides on this site, a lot).

 

Thanks for reading and responding,

Thebeliever

[DarthOkkata]

Why does there need to be a point?

 

What requirement is there really for some form of validation?

 

Why does living through suffering have to have some sort of 'magic carrot' at the end of it all?

 

You endure through suffering because the alternative is death. After that, what is there to look forward to?

 

Eternal paradise? That leads to an unhealthy attitude about this life. After all, why hang around here and do the best you can with this life when the next world is so much better?

 

A quote from a monk after hearing about the death of one of his fellow monks. "Oh! How wonderful! I'm positively envious! Such wonderful news!"

 

The idea that there needs to be some sort of point or reason behind our existence is fallacy. There doesn't need to be an excuse for it. Why would there need to be?

 

'I don't like the way it sounds' or 'I don't want to believe that's true' is not a valid rebuttal. Your personal feelings on the matter don't validate it.

 

There really doesn't need to be a reason or purpose to life. What you do with your life, and what you choose to live for are entirely up to you. You make your own purpose.

 

There's no need for a divine or predetermined reason for any of it whatsoever.

 

What if there isn't? What really changes?

 

The simple and honest answer is nothing. It's all still exactly the same. It doesn't change the condition of this world one single bit.

 

The idea of divine justice, reward or punishment in the afterlife serves no real purpose other than making those who live 'feel better'.

 

In all honesty, that's not really all that important. It doesn't change reality or make things any different.

 

The Universe is what it is, and all the wishful thinking in the world won't change a bit of it.

 

A reason? For what? Why?

 

The idea that there somehow 'needs' to be one is false. Everything still exists anyway. The idea that there has to be some sort of intentional purpose behind it is nothing more than something to make ourselves feel more comfortable about the unknown. It's entirely made up, and there's no real 'need' filled by it. Just an imagined one.

 

There is no purpose to the Universe, but that doesn't mean you can't have one of your own if you wish. It's all about what you want to do with your life.

 

The idea of a divine purpose really just gets in the way of that.

 

I was dead for an eternity before I was born, and it didn't bother me a bit.

[Vigile]

What is the point of life without a God?

 

Not a valid question. It starts with the unsupported assumption there is a god in the first place and that life has to have a point.

 

What happens after we die?

 

Who knows? Probably the same thing that occurs before one is conceived. Nothing.

 

Life sucks sometimes, what is the point of enduring the pain?

 

Rather glass half full don't you think? Life is pretty good sometimes too. What's the point of putting an end to all the good stuff? Life is what you do or don't make of it.

 

I have not personally known many atheists and the ones that I have known could not really give me valid answers that had any sort of logic or effort put into them.

 

You probably didn't talk to any that had a well thought through position. If you leave this site with the same impression perhaps it's that you just aren't listening very well

[Creepy Doll]

And so I ask:

What is the point of life without a God?

What happens after we die?

Life sucks sometimes, what is the point of enduring the pain?

 

a) Why does there have to be a god? Why can't we just be happy with life and all the good things it can bring? I am actually happier with my post-christian life because I can live it the way I choose to without feeling guilty and like I'm walking on eggshells every day. And (!) surprise... I don't go around killing, stealing, or harming anyone in any way. In fact, lots of people who know me will tell you I'm nicer now than I was then.

 

b ) Who knows? Does it matter? Being a bit of a dreamer I ponder such things, but I'm one of those weirdos who has a fascination for things like ghosts, hauntings, and a lot of things most people consider morbid. I don't necessarily believe in any of it, I see it more as wishful thinking and nostalgia than anything else and I'm OK with that. Maybe there's an afterlife and maybe there isn't, whatever the answer, I'll deal. If it's a dirt nap, then I won't care because I won't consciously know anything anyway. If there's some kind of life after death, then I'll enter the life hereafter with the satisfaction of an interesting and fulfilling go at life.

 

c) To be honest, at times things in my life have sucked so bad I have felt there is no point. But I also felt that way as a christian... Life is what you make it and I happily make mine as fulfilling as possible. I have children I love and cherish, a wonderful partner I love and cherish, a lovely Victorian home we just bought and moved into that has always been my dream since I was a little girl, an active imagination that likes to write stories for children, and a job that makes me happy most of the time, which was my dream job as a little girl too. So why would I really want to give all that up just because I realize there is no savior jesus and there may be no god? I'll be brutally honest here and tell you that the only people who tend to bring me down are christians who feel it is their duty to judge me because I am a) gay and genderqueer and B ) no longer following their religion. If people would stop using religion to judge and abuse others, this world would be much happier for a lot of people who are just trying to live their lives and not harming anyone.

 

You asked, I answered.

 

C

[Vixentrox]

What is the point of life without a God?

 

What is the point of life with a god, or specifically a Christian god? Depending on the Christian sect, the majority of people are destined for eternal torture by this murdering beast who claims to unconditionally love his children. What is the point of this life if it's just a transition to magic fairy land where you spend eternity kissing the babrbaric iron age god's ass? I don't need an imaginary friend any longer. I can stand on my own and live my life just fine without having to hope for a spirit sky palace as some sort of reward.

 

What happens after we die?

 

I'm not dead yet so can't say. I am fine with being nothing more than worm food. OK, well actually I'd rather be a pile of ashes because that's cheaper. I don't remember things from before I was born, and I suspect that after I die it will be the same. Oblivion. I'd much rather that than deal with the criminal and barbaric god of the bible.

 

Life sucks sometimes, what is the point of enduring the pain?

 

Gee, you must not have anything good in your life beyond kissing your god's ass? I do endure pain all the time because of a medical problem. But the good things in life outwiegh the pain or I'd have terminated my existance already. Why would a Christian bother to endure the pain? After all, you supposedly have a magic fairy land to go to after. I'd think you'd be in a hurry to get there. Hell, if you love your kids (if you have them) you should murder them so they get to heaven sooner. Then ask god for forgiveness and you can join them in magic happy land later.

[Franko47]

What is the point of life without a God?

 

 

I suppose for some that believing in an omnipotent God who promises rewards and eventually a cosmic paradise is good incentive to keep playing.

 

This of course, begs the issue of whether one can enjoy their existence without these conditions. Actually, for me, even when I was a Christian didn't really amount to the "central issue". This is a question sometimes asked by religious people who I think are afraid to examine their true wants and needs.

 

On the other side of the coin, it was aggravating sometimes to have to live in a state where a constantly judgemental deity was sifting through my every action and thoughts. Although I never really believed that God was that "specific", many religious people do. They actually believe that God watches their every action, and even peers into their imagination. A "cosmic surviellence" that can be comforting for some; for others, the whole notion of that is insane. I would even say "psychotic".

 

 

 

 

 

What happens after we die?

 

 

I really don't know for sure. (and neither do you) Likely nothing. When one can finally accept that and move on with their life, then one has grown. I know many believing Christians still who have their doubts. They realize that there may be nothing beyond the grave. They've even admitted that it gave them a clearer perspective on their own faith. I find that interesting.

 

 

 

Life sucks sometimes, what is the point of enduring the pain?

 

 

Again, when one can accept that a certain amount of pain is going to show up from time to time in one's life, and can accept that, then one has grown.

 

 

 

It's interesting to note that the three questions presented here are largely "security blanket" issues, but central to religious faith for many people.

 

 

A Cosmic authority figure, who will judge your life based on how well you did with the "rules" (or "procedures") and then grant eternal existence presumably in a state of sinless bliss. It makes for good structure to motivate a person, just as children need "rules" and "boundaries" and "purpose" set forth by their parents and other authority figures.

 

My deconversion had nothing to do with these issues, however. Even when I was a practicing Christian I had routine doubts about these things, and as a matter of fact had more trouble deciding what I wanted out of life than with the other two issues. It wasn't so much having a problem with a God, per se, but with the world of theology and doctrines that all seemed aimed more at controlling me than helping me actually experience any real joy.

 

The very notion that I should apologize to anyone for being born, is absurd, treacherous, a lie, and just plain designed to control people.

[Tabula Rasa]

I am a Christian or more specifically I am a born and raised Catholic. Over the years as I journey into adulthood I find my faith in God growing stronger. Today I accidentally stumbled on this site (got to love Google, it takes you to the opposite place you actually want to go) and started to read some of the testimonies from the “ex-Christians” and I became curious . I am not one who is afraid to “shop around” and let my faith regularly be challenged by anyone. But at the same time I am perfectly happy with my @#$ hole and do not need you to rip me a new one ;-). In other words I come in peace, seeking discussion and dialogue not debate…. I do not feel the need to wear my religion on my shoulder and be assured I am not here to convert you or even defend my religion (I will answer questions about it though, feel free to ask)….

 

I have not personally known many atheists and the ones that I have known could not really give me valid answers that had any sort of logic or effort put into them.

 

And so I ask:

What is the point of life without a God? What happens after we die?

What happens after we die?

Life sucks sometimes, what is the point of enduring the pain?

 

I would love valid and thought out answers. Feel free to include answers to other related questions that I may not have asked. But you should get a general idea of what I am trying to ask from these three questions. Don’t be surprised if I ask another question to your response, this is not meant to be aggressive on my part; I am just searching for further understanding.

I do have my own answers of course, but I will not include them yet to avoid tarnishing the dialogue.

 

TO THE CHRISTIANS WHO WANT TO DEBATE, PLEASE BE ADULTS AND HOLD YOUR TONGUES THIS IS NOT A DEBATE. LET THE EX-CHRISTIANS ANSWER HONESTLY WITHOUT FEELING LIKE THEY ARE GOING TO BE VERBALLY ASSULTED (which seems to happen from both sides on this site, a lot).

 

Thanks for reading and responding,

Thebeliever

 

Believer, here's my answers to your questions and some other thoughts:

 

What is the point of life without a God? Well, even though I do believe there is a God, it doesn't mean that his existence is what should give our lives meaning. Though I have mostly deistic leanings, I sometimes think that God created life and let it find it's own purpose by way of evolution. If we have a set purpose set down by God, then we really have no freewill, if we're punished eternally for choosing other options in how we live our lives.

 

What happens after we die? Man, I wish I knew. While I don't believe in the christian concepts of heaven and hell, I still like to think that there's something else after we die. But, it's not up to me, so I'm trying to come to terms with the idea that when I die, my mind will just go poof and I'll cease to exist.

 

Life sucks sometimes, what is the point of enduring the pain? I wonder this myself sometimes. It seems that things are just crap, and there's no point to anything,but then again, we as humans do have the ability to try to effect change for the better.

One thing that does really bug me is how there are so many evil people in the world in the world, and so many of them seem to get away with the bad things they do, it sometimes makes me wish that God did intervene and punish the wicked. But if he did , free will would go out the door. If people were good just because they were afraid of getting ligtning struck, their morality would be based only on fear.

 

I think that God might intend that we police ourselves, that it's up to us to oppose those who do evil things.

[Kuroikaze]

And so I ask:

What is the point of life without a God?

 

The point is what ever you want it to be. Even with a god this is pretty much true. Think about this, how much influence does your god belief have on your every day life?

 

What happens after we die?

 

I am not certain, however all the evidence I have available leads me to believe that I simply cease to exist. Since I did not exist for billions of years before this and that didn't bother me I doubt very much I will be bothered by it when I don't exist again. If I'm wrong, great, but I am not going to spend a lot of time worrying about something that no one can know the answer too.

 

Life sucks sometimes, what is the point of enduring the pain?

 

Because I choose too. Seriously though life is not ALL pain, but the alternative to enduring is what?

[Jedah]

What is the point of life without a God?

 

What exactly about God existing makes or does not make life have a purpose? I see this silly question asked all the time, always with this sort of presupposition that God somehow magically grants us purpose...yet never does it go hand in hand with any kind of logical explanation for how that actually makes any sense. It seems to me that people just want God to give us all a purpose because it would be easier to understand coming from a supposed higher being. In this case God isn't really giving you any kind of "meaning", just conviction. In the end what you really get is little more then a delusional belief that you have found some sort of absolute purpose to your life, despite the fact that as a subjective being your perception of absolutes is still subjective to your own understanding.

 

Here is a question for you: If God came down this moment and it was undeniably God, and he told you that your purpose in life -the reason he made you- was so that you could clean up dogshit via consumption...would you honestly devote the rest of your life to scrounging around the ground on your stomach and eating every piece of excrement you could find that looked like it was left by a dog? Seriously now, I think some intellectually dishonest apologists may answer yes to that question but honestly no one in their right mind would ever do that. Purpose and meaning comes from within, not from some deity.

 

 

What happens after we die?

 

Well, the one thing we know for sure is that our bodies rot away. As for the afterlife: if it does exist no one really knows what it is. The only thing we can come close to knowing about the afterlife is that it will most likely not be something totally contradictory. I seriously doubt that if there was a God that he/she/it would be as petty as to cast people into some sort of divine punishment just for failing to believe in the correct version of him. Such an idea is a ludicrous and obviously man-made way of striking fear and unquestioning obedience into flock members. Heck, it may ironically even be blasphemous.

 

Life sucks sometimes, what is the point of enduring the pain?

 

Read my signature.

[Ouroboros]

What is the point of life without a God?

The point of life is to live.

 

And before it's possible to answer what the point is without God, we first have to ask what is the point of life with God?

 

What happens after we die?

What we know is that most of the body gets reused in nature, and our minds cease to exist.

 

Do you know what happens after we die?

 

Life sucks sometimes, what is the point of enduring the pain?

It depends. If the pain is extremely severe, I can understand that some ends it, but I've been through a lot of hardship, and so has my kids and wife, but we push through because there is a will to continue to live, and a strong desire to see if we can overcome the problems and make ourselves a better tomorrow. I feel I have a responsibility to a "higher power," which is me in the future, and I don't want to fail my future self.

 

What is the point of enduring pain and continue life for a Christian? If a Christian/Catholic (or any other Heaven-destination-based-religion) is going to a better place when you die, why continue this life when obviously it's worse here than in the afterlife?

[ShackledNoMore]

What is the point of life without a God?

I submit that there does not necessarily have to be a point in the sense that you are looking for. A restatement of this question is "How can life have meaning without god?" Shifting to the perspective of a non-believer, you might express this concept as "How can I be fulfilled without god?" That's how I would ask the question because I agree with some previous posters that life does not necessarily have to have a point per se, but that does not mean it cannot be fulfilling. We are born, we live, many or most of us reproduce, and we die.

 

To further answer, it helps to look at the paradigm from which it emerges. From the perspective of a christian asking this question, the expectation is that he or she will live forever. Now you entertain the thought of replacing that with a finite existence and you have lost everything. Now try looking at it from the perspective of a life-long secularist, non-believer, atheist, whatever you want to use. He or she has always carried a different assumption: we have a full measure of life until we die, and that's what we have. You can compare that to never having been born and now you have a great deal, you can even say everything. I believe that one of the challenges to being an ex-christian is shifting that very paradigm, it was for me.

 

I assure you, I find fulfillment in my finite and imperfect life, the presence of the physical and emotional pain that visits us all at times and to some degree or another notwithstanding. We can do good and nobel things, we can make the world a better place for our contemporaries and our descendents, we can be awestruck at the beauty of a sunrise, the universe, a cell... We can savor a good meal, relish a thought provoking dialog or reading material, and we can raise children if we are so inclined, sort of perpetuating ourselves in some symbolic sense.

What happens after we die?

I see no evidence to support the idea that anything other than our consciousness stops, our body decomposes, and nothing more happens, basically that same thing that I would expect happens to our goldfish after it dies. I see nothing to support the idea that whatever we have is in this life, which gives us every reason to make the most of it and live it to its fullest.

Life sucks sometimes, what is the point of enduring the pain?

Yes, life does suck sometimes and there is pain. I think the survival instinct makes a big difference, I know it does for me. I WANT to live! I ENJOY existing as a conscious, thinking being whether there is pain or not, and even if it sucks. Again, it is a different mindset of not looking at life as simply a trial for us to endure, but rather as something we are endowed with (no need for a creator), for which I, for one, am most grateful. In other words, I view THIS life as something fulfilling and wonderful to have. It is so much better, in my mind, to live life under such a mindset, than to endure life as a trial in which you are waiting for something better to come along in an afterlife, waiting for a god to come along and take away your pain. Again, this is a different way of looking at things from the christian mindset, in which we are sinners and need atonement and redemption so that we can ultimately experience something better in the next life and no longer suffer.

[Deva]

To the OP, a valid answer - what is that in relation to these questions? As others have said you are already assuming the existence of God in your first question. The word valid, I think doesn't really apply. I have a tendency to be brief, but that does not mean I have not thought of these questions.

 

What is the point of life without a God?

I don't really know if there is or isn't a God. I am just pretty sure it isn't the one described by the Bible or the Church. The point of life, or its meaning, is what you make it. It is not dependent on outside forces.

 

What happens after we die?

 

No one really knows, but I favor the theory of reincarnation. Logically if I am here now, it may happen that I will again appear. On the other hand, it seems reasonable to me that our memories would go along with our brain. No memory, no sense of "you" or your personality goes along, so you would also be a different person.

 

Life sucks sometimes, what is the point of enduring the pain?

 

Probably everyone has their own reasons. Some of us think that life is intrinsically worthwhile even through the low points. I don't see how believing or not believing in God helps with this question. I can say that if I believed God were good, having a life of pain would call this quality of God's into question and then there would be more mental turmoil to add to the pain.

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

Hi TB and welcome to our community...

 

What is the point of life without a God?

Life doesn't have to have a pre-assigned purpose to be enjoyed. Life has the purpose that the individual gives it. For me, the US Declaration of Independence summed it up best with the phrase "the pursuit of happiness." Because we're curious, nuturing, social animals that usually includes bonding with other humans, expanding our skills and knowledge, and leaving a legacy for those who follow.

 

What happens after we die?

No one knows. I've seen no evidence to suggest that we continue on past death, but I'm open to seeing scientific proof to the contrary.

 

Life sucks sometimes, what is the point of enduring the pain?

Most of us endure pain because we realize that life has its ups and downs and things usually get better. Most of us also realize that what seems to be a big problem when it's happening can often turn out to be an opportunity or a chance to grow. However, I also believe that humans should have the right to end their lives when and if they feel that the pain really is too great to go on.

 

---

 

Now, a question for you - in your opinion, what's the purpose of life?

[florduh]

The benefits I derived from having faith are far outweighed by the rational view I now hold.

 

The power of faith derives from holding a belief in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. If the existence of a god was an obvious fact, no faith would be required. With blind faith, I felt as other believers do, that I had a secret knowledge beyond the reach of the common man. I could talk to the real god and they couldn't. I felt sorry for those who didn't know what I knew.

 

I wanted to know what God wanted of me, what the Bible really said on every subject. I studied it exhaustively, also the history of Biblical times, the history of the current Bible, and comparative religion. Contradictions and unanswerable questions kept surfacing, and discussions with pastors and professors always concluded with the need to just have faith, or that we can't know the mind of God. Being a creation of God, and even in his image, I thought I should be able to understand him better. I was doing all the work to effect communication with God and he was doing nothing.

 

Having found the Bible - the basis for Christianity - to be riddled with errors, contradictions, and open to almost any imaginable interpretation, my eyes started to open. The book is at odds with recorded history and science in so many instances, it couldn't be the word of any god. Much of the mythology of the Bible was borrowed from earlier religions. I began to see the harm the church has done throughout history with religious wars, the Inquisition, witch hunts, and steadfast resistance to scientific discoveries and progress. I discovered how the Bible was compiled as a political tool, with only certain books included because they supported a particular view.

 

Other religions have their "miracles" as well, and most of the other religions are peaceful endeavors that don't force themselves on societies. Christianity's claim to be the only valid religion began to look a bit ridiculous and self-serving. An unbiased examination will show that prayers simply do not work, even though Jesus claimed otherwise. Theologians have made up end-run arguments for all the scriptural gaffes, but the Bible still says what it says.

 

We believe as much as we are able to, it's that simple. Logic, rationality and critical thinking prevent me from believing the unbelievable any longer. It was not my decision, but the conclusion of a long journey.

 

What I'm left with is reality. Life has ups and downs for everyone on the planet. Prayer isn't going to make a difference for any of us, and I'm okay with that. Life is good without magic and superstition.

[NonXNonExX]

The answer to your questions are easy for me. Ever since i can remember, the purpose of life for me has been friendship, love and music (I also love eating!!). There is so much to learn about all three that i know one lifetime is not going to be enough, but if i really did learn all there is about all three i would feel dead anyway. Never saw a reason for any invisible, totally unresponsive friends in the equation, especially one who promises so much and delivers so little.

 

I don't expect anything in particular to happen when i die, other than returning to the elements from which i came. My greatest hope is that my memory and my music will live on for awhile after i'm gone so i do my best to spread the love and the music while i'm here. Working and sacrificing for a great payoff in the sky after i pass away that may never come seems like a pursuit for delusional fools and people who feel they have no chance to live a real life.

 

As many here and many more before have pointed out, life is not fair and sometimes it seems too much for a human being to bare. But life goes on with you or without you, and i still prefer that it go on with me for as long as possible. There's always one more interesting person to meet, one more piece of music to learn, one more song to write.

 

I certainly can't see any point to a life spent wasted studying a book of poorly written barbaric myths in the vague hope that something wonderful will happen to me when i die.

[oddbird1963]

The Believer,

 

Please be mindful of the disclaimer on this website's main pages.

 

And also please be mindful that these questions are most significant to you from a christian point of view. Not that atheists don't ask these questions as well, but your theistic and christian presuppositions will color the 'validity' you assign to the responses you received.

 

What is the point of life without a God? - There is no externally "injected" point to life. Life is what it is. You either accept it or reject it. You either make your own meaning out of it, share the meaning others hold or accept that there is no meaning and respond to life in the moment according to your genetics, your prior learning and prior experience.

 

What happens after we die? - We return to non-sentient existence as part of the natural order, our material selves becoming part of the world around us. How do we know this? That's where the credible evidence points.

 

Life sucks sometimes, what is the point of enduring the pain?

Some people have hope that after the pain, better things will come. Hope is not just a christian concept. It does not have to be laden with a christian world-view or focused on a super-spiritual savior type. If you expect the pain to stop, then you can endure. You may believe, as some do, that "What does not kill me, makes me stronger." So, enduring the pain may be possible because of a belief that it will in some ways enhance your ability to master life after the painful period.

 

The Oddbird

[Ouroboros]

Believer,

 

I wanted to add a few thoughts. Think about why and how people managed to survive, thrive, have multiple kinds of religious beliefs, and sometimes even beliefs akin to atheism, in the past, before Jesus, and after Jesus as well. Out of the world population today, only one third is Christian, and I think about a fifth is non-religious. How can this be? Why didn't people in the past kill themselves out of despair and without meaning of life? How come a large part of the world can maintain a non-belief and be happy? Think about these things, and you will realize that hope, happiness, meaning, etc, are emotions which come from inside the human mind. We are all able to produce the meaning we need to live. One particular kind of minority cultist religion can't have the eternal copyright on it, since it would mean that everyone else would be without it, and if it was true, the effects would be very obvious.

[bdp]

What is the point of life without a God?

 

With or without, there isn't a point - life just is.

 

 

What happens after we die?

 

Won't know til we get there, and maybe not even then.

 

 

 

Life sucks sometimes, what is the point of enduring the pain?

 

I ask myself that a lot.

[Overcame Faith]

Hi, Believer. Others have done a very good job of answering your questions and so I will not attempt to repeat their answers. Rather, I will take your questions from another perspective and that is the perspective of an ex-Christian.

 

What is the point of life without a God?

 

The god of the bible does not give meaning to life. Rather, the god of the bible cheapens life. Remember, this very same "god" would cast someone into hell for an eternity of torture simply for failing to believe in a certain way. That means that the vast majority of human beings ever born will go to hell and only a few (relatively speaking) will be in heaven. Once we are able to cast bible god away, then life can have a much richer meaning. No longer must we live in fear and dread of the potential of eternal punishment or act in a way dictated by the bronze age writers of the new testament. Rather, we can live for life's sake. We can think beyond the bounds of that old book called the bible and find a truly better way to make some meaning for our lives.

 

What happens after we die?

 

There is no heaven or hell. Beyond that, I don't know.

 

Life sucks sometimes, what is the point of enduring the pain?

 

I know that Christians want to make a point that with the god of the bible there can be some meaning to our pain. Maybe this meaning is that god is testing them, or helping them to be more empathetic to others, or making them stronger, etc., etc. But once we reject bible god then we also reject the idea that there is some divine cause of our pain, whether from bible god or satan. This relieves us of trying to answer the very question you pose. No longer must we ask what is the point of enduring the pain. Rather, we are able to seek the root cause of the pain and do our best to eliminate it from our lives. But even if we are unable to eliminate the pain from our lives (terminal cancer, for example), at least we know that there is no divine cause of it either.

[Guest The believer]

Sorry that the questions were a little loaded. They were not meant to be. I just did know how to ask them in another way. I won't lie, I am sheltered. I have not had much exposure to a community of this nature and seek to better understand it because…..

 

The real reasons I ask these questions is because of my volunteer work, I often deal with a wide variety of people suffering from drug addictions, depression, anxiety, and the list goes on and on. Many of these people suffer from suicidal thoughts. Many of these people are not religious.

 

It is very easy for me to talk to a religious person about having hope and helping them to endure their pain because this is what I am most familiar with. The common ground of religion helps me to become a friend and a support system for them so they can get back on their feet emotionally and psychologically. This is because a religious person is able to feel loved even when they have lost their friends and family because they are loved by something bigger or have a bigger purpose. There suffering is smaller than the glory they are meant for. (This is not a personal belief; this is just stating how people react).

 

But when a person from a secular or atheist perspective asks me these same questions that I presented to you, I really do not have much of an answer for them.

To give some perspective, these people are very down on their luck, they don’t have a home, if they had a family they have been abandoned by them, and usually don’t have any friends. (That is why the last question was kind of depressing)

It is very easy to tell someone “God loves you” but if that means nothing to them it is not going to help them. I am not going to cram my religion down their throat just because they are vulnerable. But at the same time I would really like to be able to tell them something or be able to help them to create their own hope.

 

The answers that I have gotten have been good and I will not lie, many have valid points.

I think that a good approach will be to focus on the person’s life and try to find some happiness in it all.

I also think that enabling might also be a good path, trying to put the power into their hands and letting them know that their life is what they make it.

But still it is still very difficult to tell a person who is drowning in pain and feels no love, that their life is worth living.

 

 

Thanks for the answers, if you have any other insights after reading this please let me know.

 

Thebeliever

[♦ nivek ♦]

Hmmm...

 

Point of life?

 

Good food, occasional fucking, clean clothing, decent family, and ability to try and hold things together best we can.

 

Can go on for pages with philosophical shit on what/where/when/why. Best thing for this mean_old_man is that we continue to do the best we can for the most we can as often as we can.

 

kFL

[oddbird1963]

Thanks for the answers, if you have any other insights after reading this please let me know.

 

Thebeliever

 

 

You might want to solicit stories from recovering people who are atheists who had similar issues while being atheists and ask them how they found recovery. Then, you can apply what you learn to the atheists you encounter.

[Ouroboros]

The real reasons I ask these questions is because of my volunteer work, I often deal with a wide variety of people suffering from drug addictions, depression, anxiety, and the list goes on and on. Many of these people suffer from suicidal thoughts. Many of these people are not religious.

Durkheim's conclusion was that suicide was based on a problem with social integration, and during his time, the statistics showed that the highest risk was in these groups: male, unmarried, and Protestant. I can't say if the statistics still holds, but my understanding is that the failure to integrate into the social group is a huge part of the reason to suicide (and I suspect depression as well).

 

This means that within a culture where 70% or more are religious, people who are not are excluded and more likely to be depressed and suicidal. Hence, the answer is not if God and religion is the solution, but rather the willingness to accept, tolerate, and include those who are different. And the Church has failed miserably in doing so. Just look at Prop 8, when the religious want to put their prejudice and intolerance even into law.

 

It is very easy for me to talk to a religious person about having hope and helping them to endure their pain because this is what I am most familiar with. The common ground of religion helps me to become a friend and a support system for them so they can get back on their feet emotionally and psychologically. This is because a religious person is able to feel loved even when they have lost their friends and family because they are loved by something bigger or have a bigger purpose. There suffering is smaller than the glory they are meant for. (This is not a personal belief; this is just stating how people react).

That's the same reason why countries with other religious beliefs also work to maintain the social stability. Because the majority follow the same faith. And even in countries with secularism or agnosticism it can work when people create support network and care for each other. That you are caring for other people only means that you are a caring person, and people like you make the difference, not religion. But I do understand that for you it's easier to establish this connection with people through your belief.

 

But when a person from a secular or atheist perspective asks me these same questions that I presented to you, I really do not have much of an answer for them.

To give some perspective, these people are very down on their luck, they don’t have a home, if they had a family they have been abandoned by them, and usually don’t have any friends. (That is why the last question was kind of depressing)

This website is a good example, and the testimonies here confirm, that people who lose their faith are lost to the social network. They are dropped out, abandoned, and sometimes even prosecuted and destroyed. We have examples of people here who have been falsely accused by their ex-spouses, just because they start to doubt the "love message." There's no wonder at all why many who lose their faith also become depressed.

 

It is very easy to tell someone “God loves you” but if that means nothing to them it is not going to help them. I am not going to cram my religion down their throat just because they are vulnerable. But at the same time I would really like to be able to tell them something or be able to help them to create their own hope.

You seem to have a very good attitude about this things.

 

The answers that I have gotten have been good and I will not lie, many have valid points.

I think that a good approach will be to focus on the person’s life and try to find some happiness in it all.

I also think that enabling might also be a good path, trying to put the power into their hands and letting them know that their life is what they make it.

But still it is still very difficult to tell a person who is drowning in pain and feels no love, that their life is worth living.

Yes. I wish you good luck.

 

Perhaps you should consider taking some classes in psychology and/or sociology and learn things from a secular viewpoint, just to complement your current religious approach? Just a thought.

[Skeptic]

These are my hypotheses, but they're based on reality, not on some book that was supposedly inspired by an invisible being.

 

What is the point of life without a God?

 

Life doesn't have to have a divine purpose. Life is what you make of it. You have to make your own purpose. No one's going to do it for you.

 

What happens after we die?

 

Well, while you die, different systems of your body shut down until the entire body shuts down. That's basically what death is on a biological level. I don't believe in a soul or in some part of the body that travels to a place outside of the body after death. There's really no evidence of that as far as I can tell. From the research that I've done in the field of neuroscience, it's very plausible to think that there is no soul, and that the mind (where the "soul" would be) and the brain (the actual organ) are the same, and that when the brain shuts down, the mind--or "soul"--ceases to exist.

 

Life sucks sometimes, what is the point of enduring the pain?

 

The key word here is sometimes. Life doesn't suck all the time. Depending on how painful your life is, you may have to look harder to find things in life that are pleasant. When all you see and experience is horrible things and you go through much hardship, it's tempting to focus on that and decide that your life sucks and there's no point. Like I said before, you have to make your own point. Religion often steps in for people who can't make their own point in life and makes one for them.

[Legion]

The point is to die with as little regret as possible.