My Sister-in-law. Again.

[PaulQ]

I haven't been here in a while. Truth be told, I've been exploring Buddhism, and find I really connect with it. Life's also been busy, but something happened in my life that turned me back to these forums for advice.

 

Just a little background on me: I've been an ex-Christian since my mid-20's, when I got married. I've been married for 13 years. My wife considers herself a believing Christian, while I consider myself an atheist. Our relationship is built on mutual respect for each other, so I understand that she has her reasons to believe, and she understands I have my reasons to not believe. We both recognize that our differences make us stronger, and do not attempt to "Convert" each other; mostly because we recognize there is much more to life. We both agree that a person's religious views are a personal matter for that individual person, even in a marriage.

 

The problem is my sister-in-law. I will share with you the latest exchange between her and my wife on Facebook:

 

Subject: Congrats!

 

Hi, Jeanine.

 

Congrats on your new arrival! You have a beautiful baby.

 

How are you doing?

 

I'm a little surprised that you took me off of your facebook account.

 

I have been very busy lately because I am putting in soooo many hours with the city and I am also looking for a second job. I do have an interview tomorrow with another city job. As you know Paul lost his job and he is making a lot less, but he is going back to school in the fall. He hopes to get into a good career when he graduates.

 

You need to understand that I have been very busy and am under a lot of stress.

 

Love,

 

Sally and Nicholas

Sally,

 

As my sister, I have nothing but love for you, however, because of:

 

1. Your lousy wedding gift, together with your lousy way of packing it.

2. Your failure to thank me for our baby's birth announcement.

3. Your failure to wish me a happy birthday this year.

 

and many, many, other things, you're now at the top of my X- list.

 

As a family, James and I have decided that we're only going to be communicating with Born Again Christians, so you need to get with Christ before trying to get with me.

 

God Bless,

Jeanine

I was, am, and always will be with Christ!

Sally,

 

"I was, am, and always will be with Christ!"

 

hmmmmmmm......

 

If you are a true believer, YOUR LIFE WILL DEMONSTRATE IT and the Bible tells us that over and over again.

People say, "I believe Jesus is Lord," yet they curse without abandon, DON'T go to church, love everything this wicked world has to offer (like MONEY), DON'T feel convicted of sin, and are UNINTERESTED IN THE THINGS OF GOD (like having NOTHING religious in the home/or even sharing the gospel). Does this person believe to the saving of the soul? Good chance that the answer is N.O. Is this a matter of trying to be God and determine who will make it in? No! It is a question of life and death and telling people the truth!

 

Saving faith will manifest itself in good works. Just read James, Hebrews, I John, Romans--the gospels. If NO CHANGE occurs in a person's life, we have plenty of scriptures to let us know that there is a VERY good chance true conversion NEVER took place to begin with. Works do not save, but A SAVING FAITH WILL CAUSE GOOD WORKS. Another analogy--apples do not make an apple tree an apple tree. Before any fruit appeared it was an apple tree. With time, sunshine, water and other factors, the precious fruit cometh forth. Same thing with a saved person. They have Jesus Christ within. With the word of God, working of the Holy Ghost, the brethern and time, good works will come forth like fine treasure hidden from within an earthen vessel.

 

Following are ten evidences the true believer in Jesus Christ possesses, all from the epistle of First John.

 

1.Do you respect God? Is your opinion just as important or even more relevant than His? Are God's pronouncements authoritative in your life? Is Jesus Christ your Lord?

 

2.Do you read the Bible daily? Do you read the Scriptures seeking to obey what you find? Are you in rebellion against God's Word or in submission to it? Do you love the Bible?

 

3.Do you love the world, your money, and your possessions? Do they mean more to you than Jesus Christ and His approval? Would you be willing to give up all for Christ?

 

4. Are you faithful in regular fellowship with God's people in a local church? Are you able to be sparse in church attendance for weeks at a time without any real guilt about it? Do you long for fellowship with the saints in the assembly?

 

5. Are you living in the daily awareness that Jesus Christ will return for His own? Are you eagerly looking forward to His coming for you? Does your daily life reflect the fact that He may come today? Are you ready to meet Him at any time?

 

6. Does your sin bother you? Do you wish you sinned less than you do? Are you sinning less now than when you first made a profession of faith in Christ? Do you enjoy your sin, or does it affect your happiness? Do you realize God sees all sin?

 

7. Do you love other believers in Jesus Christ? Do you enjoy being in their company, or would you rather be with the people of the world? Are Christians your dearest friends?

 

8. Do you pray? Can you point to specific answers that could have come from no one but God? Do you find yourself conversing regularly with God as a trusted friend?

 

9.Do you find it easy to sort out the claims of various religions? Do you see all religions as the same? Do you understand the doctrine of Christ? Do you believe Jesus Christ is God?

 

10. Do you have a conscious awareness that the Holy Spirit of God lives in you? Does He teach you things from the Scriptures on a regular basis? Does the Holy Spirit convict you when you sin, or can you sin with abandon?

 

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

I John 2:3-4

 

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/evidence.htm

Like I said before..."I was, am and always will be with Christ!"

You obviously didn't read my email above... figures.

 

Don't message me again, and START WITH READING THE HOLY BIBLE!.....INSTEAD OF GETTING YOUR ATHEIST HUSBAND TO THROW ALL RELIGIOUS MATERIAL IN THE GARBABGE!!!!!!

 

Not the least bit "Christian like" Sal'...

 

1. Your lousy wedding gift, together with your lousy way of packing it.

2. Your failure to thank me for our baby's birth announcement.

3. Your failure to wish me a happy birthday this year.

 

You are now going to be on my blocked list here.

 

GET WITH CHRIST BEFORE GETTING WITH ME.

Subject: One more thing...

 

The bible also says (in the end times) that people, even those who say they are christians, will become greedy, proud, ungrateful, wicked, unmerciful, stubborn, wicked, without natural affection, disobedient to parents, lovers of pleasure more than of God, yet having an appearance of godliness on the surface.

 

http://www.foolforhim.com/questions/prophe...theendtimes.htm

 

 

If one does not have God, one has NOTHING.

 

Whosoever abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God." -- 2 John 9

 

I honestly would like to get some other perspectives on this. I personally feel this is not indicative of the Christian faith nor the teachings of Christ; but as an atheist and ex-Christian, I recognize that my opinion would be seen as biased. What would be really great is to have devout Christians say this, and even go so far as to indicate that they find this behaviour offensive and repulsive. My reason for this is simple; mother-in-law is caught in the middle of this mess, and while my wife is fine with writing off her sister, she would like to keep her positive relationship with her mother. By getting other Christian perspectives on this, I feel it's likely we can finally get sister-in-law to STFU. No, this isn't the first time she's lashed out like this, but I want to make it the last.

[godlessgrrl]

Quick question: why are you looking for the opinion of devout Christians on a board of ex-Christians?

 

I can't offer anything other than an ex-believer's opinion either. And my opinion is that if the above exchange is any reflection of your SIL's overall character, she sounds like a self-absorbed, shallow, materialistic, manipulative, guilt-tripping, judgmental, rude bitch. She clearly thinks she's better than your wife, and clearly doesn't want to have anything to do with her. I would've said exactly the same thing when I was a believer, too. It doesn't matter who she is or whether she's a Christian or not, her behavior and attitude are appalling and shouldn't be tolerated.

 

It's not likely that you'll get your SIL to shut up and stop bitching. People who act like that never really stop; they tend to think they're entitled to their sense of superiority. Your wife is right: your SIL needs to be written off. How to handle it with your MIL is a bit trickier, but it can be done, it just depends on the relp with your MIL and sort of what the overall family dynamics are. What kind of impact would it have on your wife's relationship with her mother, if she cut her sister off?

[Skeptic]

Oh. my. god. I couldn't even read that entire post. I just kept thinking, "WTF?!" And it got worse and worse! If someone was like that to me (and I do have someone like that: my mom) I would cut all contact with that person. It's not worth it, believe me. Every time I've talked to my mom since I moved out, I've gotten a lecture about how I should repent of my life of sin. She doesn't know that I'm an atheist. If she knew that, her head would totally explode LMFAO. Brain matter everywhere. But yeah, I wouldn't bother with someone who acts like that. It's not worth the inevitable headaches and high blood pressure.

[Franko47]

Well, the short answer would be that your sister-in-law is a nut case. Even if I were still a Christian I would likely have said this.

 

 

It's evident that this woman is all "fired up" and in the grip of some pretty intense fundamentalist mind-storming. The psychosis might be pretty long term, so it would likely be better if your wife just ignored her sister for a while, if that's OK with her.

 

I once reminded my fundy niece once during a similar situation that "blood is thicker than water, and religion. You don't make demands on the religious beliefs of your family members. Grow up."

 

THAT actually worked, but for sake of principle, your wife should at least reply to sis with that kind of statement, if so inclined.

 

 

These fundamentalists/born again types get all fired up with emotional energy, and of course, "last days" prophecy, the final stage of the hysteria.

 

 

Hopefully you guys can come to quiet and discrete terms with mother. Good luck.

[Creepy Doll]

Ditto what gwenmead said. Even if I really felt that way, I can't imagine saying half the things your SIL said. Unbelievable.

 

The bible also says (in the end times) that people, even those who say they are christians, will become greedy, proud, ungrateful, wicked, unmerciful, stubborn, wicked, without natural affection, disobedient to parents, lovers of pleasure more than of God, yet having an appearance of godliness on the surface.

 

Seems to me she fits a lot of that herself. What a catty bitch.

[godlessgrrl]

I might add to Franko47's comment about blood being thicker than water: blood may be thicker than water, but love is thicker than blood.

 

People who really love and care for you treat you with dignity and respect. Not the abusive narcissistic bullshit your SIL is laying on your wife. Want to smackdown your SIL with an example of Christian love, straight from the Bible? Show her 1 Corinthians 13. See how she measures up to that.

 

Arrgh. I'm with Skeptic, her attitude is appalling. She's pissing me off, and I don't even know her!

 

Seriously though, my other question - if you cut off your SIL, what kind of impact is that likely to have on your wife's relationship with her mother? If that's the tricky bit it's worth figuring out, I think.

[PaulQ]

Quick question: why are you looking for the opinion of devout Christians on a board of ex-Christians?

 

It's my understanding that there are some ex-Christians here who have yet to "Come out" and are still active participants in the Christian community, and so might be able to share this exchange with those still in the faith. The would lead to the next step, which would answer:

 

What kind of impact would it have on your wife's relationship with her mother, if she cut her sister off?

 

By supporting her position with opinions of believing Christians, it would be very easy for my wife to demonstrate to MIL the true nature of her manipulative sister, and severing all ties with SIL while retaining a relationship with MIL would be that much easier. It'd be easy for SIL to dismiss me and other ex-Christians, but she wouldn't be able to dismiss those still in the faith.

 

My wife has already made a case that Jeanine's behaviour is not indicative of the teachings of Christ, which, according to her, are of peace, forgiveness, and compassion of others regardless of their religious views. I want to call SIL out on this and demonstrate, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that she isn't the pious person she pretends to be.

[decafaholic]

Wow, your SIL is actually worse than I was.

I didn't think that was possible!

[godlessgrrl]

It's my understanding that there are some ex-Christians here who have yet to "Come out" and are still active participants in the Christian community, and so might be able to share this exchange with those still in the faith.

 

Okay. Makes sense.

 

By supporting her position with opinions of believing Christians, it would be very easy for my wife to demonstrate to MIL the true nature of her manipulative sister, and severing all ties with SIL while retaining a relationship with MIL would be that much easier. It'd be easy for SIL to dismiss me and other ex-Christians, but she wouldn't be able to dismiss those still in the faith.

 

Hmm... well...

 

Is it necessary to show your MIL what a ruthless bitch SIL is? I mean, how might she take it, to hear one of her daughters criticized? Some people can take it in, others get offended; so it might backfire on you. Plus which carries more weight, the opinion of other Christians, or the Bible itself?

 

Sorry to be giving you the third degree here, just not knowing what MIL is like sort of makes it tricky to offer advice. I mean I know what I'd do if I had to cut off a sibling, but your family isn't mine, and the politics probably aren't the same...

 

My wife has already made a case that Jeanine's behaviour is not indicative of the teachings of Christ, which, according to her, are of peace, forgiveness, and compassion of others regardless of their religious views. I want to call SIL out on this and demonstrate, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that she isn't the pious person she pretends to be.

 

Okay. Are you interested in confronting your SIL? If so, why? What do you hope to gain out of it and why?

[PaulQ]

Hmm... well...

 

Is it necessary to show your MIL what a ruthless bitch SIL is? I mean, how might she take it, to hear one of her daughters criticized? Some people can take it in, others get offended; so it might backfire on you. Plus which carries more weight, the opinion of other Christians, or the Bible itself?

 

Exactly why I'm interested in hearing from those still in the faith, and quotes from the bible are fine. For instance, from one friend of mine who still goes to church every Sunday:

 

The first thing I noticed in Jeanine's first response was that she had a list of grievances and then at the end chose to hide behind "Christian" values. I find it disturbing that Jeanine, who calls herself Christian, chooses to throw rocks/cast stones. I always take Jesus' viewpoint, "“Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." Since no one is without sin, then Jeanine should not be casting stones at your wife.

 

This is the sort of ammunition I'm looking for.

 

Sorry to be giving you the third degree here, just not knowing what MIL is like sort of makes it tricky to offer advice. I mean I know what I'd do if I had to cut off a sibling, but your family isn't mine, and the politics probably aren't the same...

 

Unfortunately, she's very manipulative, always playing the victim. There tends to be a pattern to her behaviour:

 

1. She behaves nice towards her sister, opening dialogue.

2. She cries to MIL that her sister isn't doing something right. That might be failing to congratulating her a third time for something my wife had congratulated her on twice before, or failing to send her a second more satisfactory gift after my wife had sent her a gift.

3. MIL complains to my wife that she should talk to Jeanine.

4. Wife tries to talk to Jeanine, when Jeanine presents her list of grievances then hides behind "Christian" values.

 

At issue is my atheism, and the fact that my wife cannot be a real Christian if she's married to an atheist.

 

My wife's argument is that our religious views are our business, and none of her concern, and if she cannot accept us for who we are, then the problem is with her.

 

Okay. Are you interested in confronting your SIL? If so, why? What do you hope to gain out of it and why?

 

This isn't the first time it's happened, and I end up being the place where she puts her blame. Thus, it is only natural that I would be able to put a stop to this nonsense, once and for all.

 

First, by presenting opinions of Christian friends.

 

Secondly, by citing quotes out of her bible.

 

I expect such a confrontation will demonstrate to her that I will expose her for the fraud that she is if she wishes to continue in this cycle.

[PaulQ]

I should also add the detail that my sister-in-law eloped with her husband. There was never any reception afterward. I have always questioned whether it's appropriate to buy a wedding present for a sibling who eloped, but the decision was up to my wife. Besides a gift that cost her $50, she included $50 cash and shipped it to her sister at my wife's expense.

 

Then there's the fact that sister-in-law tracked down my wife's crazy ex-boyfriend on Facebook and made him a "Friend." That's another big old can of worms. Personally, I feel my wife has been far too nice.

[PaulQ]

My wife has already made a case that Jeanine's behaviour is not indicative of the teachings of Christ, which, according to her, are of peace, forgiveness, and compassion of others regardless of their religious views. I want to call SIL out on this and demonstrate, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that she isn't the pious person she pretends to be.

 

What is there to call out? Her behavior speaks for itself.

 

Phanta

 

I suppose I'm just so fed up with her shit over the years, I really feel like rubbing her nose in it.

[buffettphan]

Don't message me again, and START WITH READING THE HOLY BIBLE!.....INSTEAD OF GETTING YOUR ATHEIST HUSBAND TO THROW ALL RELIGIOUS MATERIAL IN THE GARBABGE!!!!!!

 

It sounds to me that your SIL thinks believes your wife has to prove that she is (SIL's version of) a True Christian^TM by dumping you. (?)

 

I too am "unequally yoked" (long story) and your SIL's behavior infuriates me. I'm certain it would also infuriate my very xtian husband.

 

Sorry, but saying your SIL is a sanctimonious bitch would be a compliment. I don't think anything you could say or do would change her mind. As television's Dr. House says "If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people." Since your wife seems to be okay with cutting the ties, my vote is to do just that. MIL will just have to deal with it.

 

 

I suppose I'm just so fed up with her shit over the years, I really feel like rubbing her nose in it.

 

Believe me, I know how you feel! But Phanta is right. That's not going to do you any good. So instead, come here and RANT! You're among friends and many of us are in similar boats.

[Guest]

Following are ten evidences the true believer in Jesus Christ possesses, all from the epistle of First John.

 

1.Do you respect God? Is your opinion just as important or even more relevant than His? Are God's pronouncements authoritative in your life? Is Jesus Christ your Lord?

 

2.Do you read the Bible daily? Do you read the Scriptures seeking to obey what you find? Are you in rebellion against God's Word or in submission to it? Do you love the Bible?

 

3.Do you love the world, your money, and your possessions? Do they mean more to you than Jesus Christ and His approval? Would you be willing to give up all for Christ?

 

4. Are you faithful in regular fellowship with God's people in a local church? Are you able to be sparse in church attendance for weeks at a time without any real guilt about it? Do you long for fellowship with the saints in the assembly?

 

5. Are you living in the daily awareness that Jesus Christ will return for His own? Are you eagerly looking forward to His coming for you? Does your daily life reflect the fact that He may come today? Are you ready to meet Him at any time?

 

6. Does your sin bother you? Do you wish you sinned less than you do? Are you sinning less now than when you first made a profession of faith in Christ? Do you enjoy your sin, or does it affect your happiness? Do you realize God sees all sin?

 

7. Do you love other believers in Jesus Christ? Do you enjoy being in their company, or would you rather be with the people of the world? Are Christians your dearest friends?

 

8. Do you pray? Can you point to specific answers that could have come from no one but God? Do you find yourself conversing regularly with God as a trusted friend?

 

9.Do you find it easy to sort out the claims of various religions? Do you see all religions as the same? Do you understand the doctrine of Christ? Do you believe Jesus Christ is God?

 

10. Do you have a conscious awareness that the Holy Spirit of God lives in you? Does He teach you things from the Scriptures on a regular basis? Does the Holy Spirit convict you when you sin, or can you sin with abandon?

 

this isn't the only way to tell a true believer. Shoot her a little bit of Mark 16 and see if she is a true believer too!

 

QUOTE (Mark 16:9)

6Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved @ but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17[

And these signs will accompany those who believe[/b]: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

 

19After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.

 

If she can't do these things, than she is not a true xtian either!

[Overcame Faith]

Just an outsider's view looking in: I don't think this squabble is really about religion. The religion part is just an angle used by your sister-in-law to make her real point. Her real point appears to be the following:

 

As my sister, I have nothing but love for you, however, because of:

 

1. Your lousy wedding gift, together with your lousy way of packing it.

2. Your failure to thank me for our baby's birth announcement.

3. Your failure to wish me a happy birthday this year.

 

and many, many, other things, you're now at the top of my X- list.

 

If your wife is interested in salvaging the relationship, she may want to address the perceived grievances of her sister as noted above. Her sister's feelings were hurt and now she is lashing out with something that she believes will hurt back, and that is where the religion issue comes in.

 

I'm not taking sides on who was right or wrong because I don't know all the facts, just commenting on what I read for what it may be worth from an outsider's perspective.

 

Personally, I think family relationships are worth making the effort to salvage, religion aside.

[ShallowByThyGame]

I doubt that fighting a bible war would get you anywhere. If I were your wife I would just write something like 'You may think you have everything figured out but it's a big universe and you are a very small part of it, and there is a chance that you may change your stance, so I will forgive your insults in the hopes that one day you will speak with me as a sister again. Jesus has taught me to never turn my back on anyone, even enemies, so I hope you will learn that lesson too and at least keep a line of communication open. Sorry about the gifts and birthday, my lack of attentiveness does not mean I do not hope the best for you with every fiber of my being, you should have said something if it bothered you so. I will try to make amends if you allow me to.

[Ouroboros]

I agree with OvercomeFaith, that Jeanine is upset because of Sally failing to fulfill some social obligations in the family, rather than religious. I think she's using the religious angle to hit back, but I think it the background the real reason is that Sally didn't do certain things Jeanine expected her to do.

 

But with that being said, Jeanine's demands for proper social interaction is on the level of "Bitch-10." She's is pissed for getting a "lousy wedding gift." If any of my siblings had uttered that, even just once, I would have cut the ties, then and there. If we should talk about proper behavior, then Jeanine should learn that it's improper to complain about gifts. She's just a master of bitchery, and without even knowing him, I feel pity for her husband.

[Guest]

Just for the record, my aunt (my father's step sister) is a very emotionally manipulative person, just like this sister seems to be. As a child I remember fights, my mom crying on a regular basis, and my dad coming into the room I was playing with my cousins in and yanking me out to the car to go home on many, many occasions; once this even happened on thanksgiving...before we ate!

 

Then one day, when I was about 14, my aunt accused my dad of stealing a $1000 inheritance from his mom (he was executer of a will that contained nothing for my grandmother, even though the deceased apparently told her he was leaving her money). My aunt pulled out everything in her emotional arsenal at my dad, trying to get him to do something illegal, basically taking $1000 out of the estate that was assigned for other things and give it to my grandmother. My dad of course refused, and after about a week or two of nightly phone calls and lots and lots of yelling, my dad disowned his entire side of the family. It's a long story that goes back to his childhood, but basically, his mom and step-sister have attacked him since his birth, and once his father died, he had no one on his side, and they both ganged up on him and his family. His sister got power of attorney over their mother around this time and wrote my sister and I out of our grandmother's will for no reason other than we were his kids!

 

Anyway, long story short, since he disowned that side of the family, ours was able to grow in happiness and quietness. My sister is too young to remember what life was like before the split, but I am not. I can say it is definitely better to divorce oneself of emotionally manipulative family members, if anything for the sake of the children. I'm very glad my dad did what what he did, it made my sister's childhood and mine much, much better.

[florduh]

The woman isn't coming from a Christian perspective. She's certifiably insane. A self centered and manipulative bitch with a capital C.

 

No sane person should even acknowledge her existence, much less defend themselves to her. Write it off and let the chips fall where they may.

[Loren]

Paul, I think that most of us exes are able to put ourselves back into the Christian mindset we used to have back when we believed well enough to clearly demonstrate using bible verses, that your sil is a hypocrite. Like other posters who've responded, I couldn't help but read your sil's words and scriptural quotes and have a bunch of scripture references of my own pop immediately into my head. For instance, she obviously didn't read too closely what Paul had to say about marriage. Other posters have posted and will post many others. The problem with scripture fights is that one side can "win" only when the other side takes their religion seriously enough to take the verses that are thrown at them with a genuine attitude of self-examination, and *that* can only happen when they have a grain of sand's worth of acknowledgment that there's a microscopic possibility that:

 

1. They might be wrong, inconceivable as that thought may be.

 

2. The Bible is for their own growth, not just something to be used to bludgeon others.

 

3. It just might be offensive to God to misuse scriptures.

 

The strong sense I have is that to engage with your sil on her level, and on her own terms is to already have lost, from a tactical standpoint.

 

Since she has cut you off, to even slightly make any overtures to her is to validate the power of her cutting you off, to tacitly imply that her points are valid enough to warrant response and to allow her to dictate the terms of the engagement, which is to say that she has managed to define things in such a way, and to engineer the nature of the social interaction such that she appears to be, by definition, on a higher level than you and your wife.

 

In the many Tai Chi sword forms, there is a particular move wherein, rather than using your sword to deflect your enemy's sword directly, sword to sword, you completely bypass their sword and put your own sword point into the wrist of their weapon hand, thereby causing them to lose their ability to even hold it. When you destroy their weapon hand, you eliminate the weapon.

 

This general type of action in a weapon fight is called, "De-fanging the Snake." I think this principle applies here.

 

Since you've stated that being on good terms with your sil is not the goal, but having a good, loving relationship with your mil is, rather than take the scripture fight road, or even engaging with your sil at all, I would strongly suggest that you go completely around your sil and do the following:

 

Discuss with your wife what you two are going to do, so you're on the same page and can show unity to your mil.

 

Both of you have a private sit-down with your mil. Sit close to her, lean forward, take her hand in yours, look into her eyes and say something like;

 

"Mom, we love you dearly. You are so precious to us! Do you know how much we cherish our times with you? Well, we're very concerned about losing that wonderful relationship with you. You know how Jeanine can be. We're very concerned that she'll try to come between you and us. We love you. Jeanine can do what she wants, and she will, and whether what she does is right or wrong, there's nothing we can do about it. She'll do whatever it is she decides to do. We'd love to have a good, healthy, loving relationship with her, but if she won't have it, there's nothing we can do about it. Maybe some day we can. Who knows? But we sure don't want to lose what we have with you!

 

We also want to be extremely clear that we never want to come between you and her. We want you to have as much love and joy with her as you can. We just want to keep right on having the love and the bond between us that we do."

 

And so on. I think it's important to not make it about Jeanine. You'll need to bring her up, of course, since she's caused this situation, but the conversation with your mil should be as little as possible about Jeanine, and all about how much you two love Mom and value your relationship with her and how you're going to go right on loving her no matter what happens.

 

I certainly don't want to put words in your mouth, I just want to give an example of the type of approach to this situation and the kinds of things to say that I think will be most likely to be productive.

 

I detest this kind of crap! I get so disgusted when a family member has so little value for others, particularly family, that they can even consider finding it in their hearts to sabotage the relationships of other family members. Revolting.

 

What ever you choose to do, I hope things work out well for you, your wife and as many family members as possible.

 

 

Loren

[hollygolightly]

Woah nelly! I have heard of behavior like this when someone in the Mormon church becomes and apostate ... fortunately when I told my family about my problems with the mormon church they pretty much agreed with me and bolted to. (Unfortunately they settled into some mutant form of protestantism). My point is we were discouraged from associating with apostates. I have heard of that kind of bile going on in some protestants as well. I would say that it is all some holier than thou business, but considering she was so fixed on the "gift" I would say that she is using her "superior" christianity as a weapon to beat your wife up over some other petty bullshit. As far as your mother-in-law is concerned, I would just be honest. I wouldn't out right put her in the middle of the whole thing, but if your SIL does, then just lay it all out there for your MIL. Maybe she will be able to talk some sense into the monster.

[Seeker630]

Quick question: why are you looking for the opinion of devout Christians on a board of ex-Christians?

 

It's my understanding that there are some ex-Christians here who have yet to "Come out" and are still active participants in the Christian community, and so might be able to share this exchange with those still in the faith. The would lead to the next step, which would answer:

 

What kind of impact would it have on your wife's relationship with her mother, if she cut her sister off?

 

By supporting her position with opinions of believing Christians, it would be very easy for my wife to demonstrate to MIL the true nature of her manipulative sister, and severing all ties with SIL while retaining a relationship with MIL would be that much easier. It'd be easy for SIL to dismiss me and other ex-Christians, but she wouldn't be able to dismiss those still in the faith.

 

My wife has already made a case that Jeanine's behaviour is not indicative of the teachings of Christ, which, according to her, are of peace, forgiveness, and compassion of others regardless of their religious views. I want to call SIL out on this and demonstrate, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that she isn't the pious person she pretends to be.

 

Save your breath. You need to grasp that your SIL won't listen to any other practicing Christians, except maybe those of her particular nut-bag persuasion. To her fundy mindset, anyone who disagrees with her is not a True Christian™. So my advice is to just blow her off completely. Now the next thing you need to look forward to is family gatherings where you may be in contact with this idiot. Kind of hard to avoid them at anniversary dinners, birthday parties and holidays you know. So you and your wife need to start thinking hard about how you're going to handle that, since the lid is already off of Pandora's Box so to speak.

 

As far as the MIL---I wouldn't worry too much about that. Your wife and the nutter are still both her daughters after all. I think that part will sort itself out soon enough.

[BlueGiant]

Her top three reasons for taking issue with you indicate that she is a materialistic, narcissistic bitch who is surely not showing any "fruits" of "faith" (though she's showing some spoiled veggies of crazy). Of course, if you hold up a mirror you'll be "attacking" her.

 

In other words, there is no "win" for this, except, maybe, for cutting her off outright. Argue not with a fool, for they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

[mwc]

OvercameFaith nailed it. She spells it out more than once I believe. The xian crap is how she intends to "resolve" this issue (a good xian would not do such things and I imagine it's also a way of hurting her and you...I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you're not particularly "loved" by her).

 

Paul speaks on the whole issue if you want it:

1 Corinthians 7

 

13 And

if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him

. 14 For

the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife

, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband.

Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy

. 15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16

How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband?

Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

Your wife, as a believer, is making both you and your children holy (ie. something pure to "god"). This would not be the case if she divorces you. It's best for everyone, according to the bible, for you to remain together...unless the disbelieving spouse chooses to leave. Your SiL is encouraging destructive behavior.

 

mwc

[PaulQ]

OvercameFaith nailed it. She spells it out more than once I believe. The xian crap is how she intends to "resolve" this issue (a good xian would not do such things and I imagine it's also a way of hurting her and you...I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you're not particularly "loved" by her).

 

Paul speaks on the whole issue if you want it:

1 Corinthians 7

 

13 And

if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him

. 14 For

the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife

, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband.

Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy

. 15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16

How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband?

Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

Your wife, as a believer, is making both you and your children holy (ie. something pure to "god"). This would not be the case if she divorces you. It's best for everyone, according to the bible, for you to remain together...unless the disbelieving spouse chooses to leave. Your SiL is encouraging destructive behavior.

 

mwc

 

This is exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for.

 

I'm not that interested in changing the mind of sister-in-law. The real issue is the fact that she will use religion to manipulate mother-in-law and turn her against my wife. Mother-in-law is a for-Jebus Christian, but she is more liberal and moderate. By citing these quotes, my wife can effectively demonstrate, from a religious context, that she has done no wrong and that Jeanine is the one in the wrong.

 

I look at it as taking her own weapon and turning it against her. After all, we all know that the bible is a double-edged sword that can easily be turned against the attacker, thanks in part to the fact that it's so poorly written and ambiguous.