Finding somewhere to go

[indoctrinated]

I've just joined this forum.

 

Are there any British people here? Are there any ex-liberal Christians?

 

The type of Christianity I was converted to many years ago was fundamentalist. I was converted when I was 11; now I am in my fifties. My intellectual journey has taken me via ever more moderate forms of "evangelicalism" to a fairly liberal position.

 

But emotionally I am probably still very much a fundamentalist at heart. What do I replace the "happy-clappy" feel good with?

 

My church is fairly boring, part of a declining and aging denomination. Intellectually it is fairly fundamentalist but not militantly so. Really it's a religious feel-good club.

 

I'm still very much involved in Christianity and church, but partly I feel as if I'm hanging on because I can't find anything better. Also these are people I care about. They are not raving fundies. They are "nice" people. But I am finding myself increasingly helping to keep the show going for the sake of other people. It doesn't scratch where I itch, either emotionally or intellectually.

 

 

I feel increasingly out of step. I don't want to just swap one religion for another, as some do. If I'm going to be religious I may as well do it in a framework I understand.

 

I think people, or at least I do, need a mythology and a framework of meaning. They need ritual and community. And I believe in all those concepts like "grace" and "forgiveness" and "love." I find prayer helpful; but I'm not sure whether objectively there's anyone there.

 

I don't believe that Jesus was God, or that there is a hell or that the Bible is literally true.

 

I don't want to be a wiccan or a buddhist or anything else. I have observed enough of other religions to realise that they all are pretty much similar, because human beings are pretty much similar.

 

I think I'm some sort of Christian humanist, or agnostic Christian. I don't want to "leave" Christianity. That feels really negative. I want to "go" somewhere. I want like-minded people with similar values. I want "worship" or ritual, and fellowship and community, combined with intellectual honesty.

 

Is this possible?

[Checkmate]

Hello Indoctrinated. Welcome to the forum.

 

Sounds to me you're looking for the Universalist Church. People who are fed up with typical Christianity, but aren't ready to separate from the religious community, usually gravitate to the Universalist branch. I understand they have room even for straight up atheists. (I personally don't understand this stuff, but, hey! If that's what turns your crank, go for it.)

 

I'm sure some of the other members will have more input and insight to give you.

 

Later.

[trashy]

There are a few "Church of Freethought" meetings here in the states, not sure if there are any similar gatherings in the UK. Otherwise I'm guessing Unity Church might be the closest thing you'll find.

[thomas]

I've just joined this forum.

 

Are there any British people here? Are there any ex-liberal Christians?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Welcome to this forum. Actually, there are some British people here, so if you stay here you will probably get in dialog with some of them.

 

At this internet site Exchristian Org you can find deconversion stories sorted by location. There are also British stories there.

[Ex-COG]

Hi, Indoctrinated, and welcome to the forum. After leaving my evangelical church, I tried a few other, more liberal churches. None felt comfortable to me, probably because I was moving farther away from Christianity in general, but I still desired a safe place to explore spirituality, ethics, relationships, etc. I ended up at the Unitarian church, where everyone pretty much searches out their own path. The Unitarians were originally considered a liberal Christian church; and while some within it may still consider themselves liberal Christians (universalist and viewing Jesus as man only) it's really a hodge-podge of different views and beliefs. But you are free to search out your own path...and change it as you go. I'm not sure what persuasion the Unitarians in the UK hold to, if they are still part of the Christian tradition there or not, I don't know, but you could check them out.

 

If you lived in the USA, I would suggest the United Church of Christ. They tend to be very liberal. I have a cousin who is an ex-fundamentalist and he now attends this church, and he says his congregation is practically all universalist at heart. But I don't know what the equivalent would be in the UK.

 

Have you done a websearch of the different denominations/religions in your country, and what they believe in? Perhaps that could help you pick out a few "systems" to examine more closely. Good luck!

[♦ nivek ♦]

Indoctrinated,

 

I've often thought that *church* was a lot like a Fraternal or Country club, but one where you aren't allowed to smoke or swear..

 

Seems that over the years we develop out lives arund our activities, going to church is one of those duties we've grown accustomed to just doing from rote.

 

Break the habit. Try an interest that churchtime used to steal from you.

If you can find you *need* an established group to be part of, there are many hobbist organizatons doing many assorrted things..

 

My *thing* just happens to be firearms, so I take family out on many juntas celebrating John Moses Browning..

 

Developed a new enjoyment blending hobbies and work skills by rebuilding an older military truck. Get quite a few folks over fooling around on this project.

 

Figure now, you've not got to be compelled to DO the religious appeasement.

 

dafatman says: "go thee and drinkest, hath fun, and kick back", err "Umm, go have a good time finding where things lead.. "

 

kL

[bob]

Indoctrinated,

I guess I would have to add, if you are happy where you are, meeting with the people you meet with every Sunday, then just keep doing it.

My Dad is not a believer, yet he goes to church most Sundays because my Mom goes. He has many friends in the church, does all the maintenance around the church, they even honored Dad back in May with a dinner, for all his hard work.

I go to church with my girlfriend ever Sunday. I just go because she is a Christian and enjoys the...fellowship? She is the only one there who knows I am an atheist.

I guess my suggestion is, if you like where you are at, stay. If you get tired of it, move on.

[Amethyst]

Can you join a social organization that is secular in nature, like a book club or something? That's not a bad way to make new friends.

[indoctrinated]

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions.

 

The main thing about this site is knowing that there are other people who understand all the conflicting thoughts and emotions.

 

Bob, you are right about the social aspect of church being something I don't particularly want to walk away from. I like the people and most of them are not zealots. It's more like a religious club. We Brits are not very good at enthusiasm!

 

My husband has moved a long way too from our original ideas. So, no problem there, thank goodness. He has always been one of those undemonstrative types. So he is quite happy to just go to church and sleep through the sermons. He always did anyway.

 

I was much more of a zealot, and so find it much more difficult. Either I feel sucked back into the old mindset or I feel frustrated with all the rubbish that people spout!

 

I think it would be easier to be a liberal Christian (which is where I've been intellectually for the last few years) if I had started out as one. In comparison with fundamentalism it feels so wishy-washy. The "all or nothing" mindset is part of the indoctrination!

 

The first time in a theological discussion that someone called me a liberal my immediate reaction was that he must be insulting me. Fortunately, I realised in time that he meant it as a compliment.

[crazy-tiger]

Greetings Indoctrinated, and welcome to the forums...

 

I'm one of those funny British ex-Christians you're looking for. (oh, you didn't say you wanted a funny one. Well, never mind... I'm here anyway)

I wouldn't have called myself a liberal Christian, mainly because I never knew there were such things until well after I left, but I suppose it's close enough to what I was. (apart from the terror in sunday school... always ready with the problems with the Bible )

 

 

By the sounds of it, you're leaning more towards Agnostic Deism than Agnostic Christianism, but there's a fine line between the two... so I'd stick with what you're doing.

 

I can understand that feeling of wanting that framework and meaning, the ritual and community. It's something I was missing for so many years until I finally realised that rituals weren't needed, that the framework and meaning comes from within, and that the community can come from any group... The moment I realised that, I was so much more peaceful.

 

A hard thing to come to terms with, and it does sound like you're struggling with them, is the thought that there is no God to give you grace, forgiveness or love... or at least the God you thought was there. That type of doubt can be soul-crushing, but it can also bring you great strength.

 

 

You can find a community where there is ritual, fellowship, community and intellectual honesty... right here.

We welcome all, (except fundies) we have the ritual "roasting of the fundie" whenever they show up, the fellowship and community you've already seen, and if you read through the forums, you'll see that most of us pride ourselves on intellectual honesty.

 

Now, worship... well, that's a problem.

Personally, I worship certain peoples avatars... but I don't think that's what you had in mind.

[Alice]

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions.

 

The main thing about this site is knowing that there are other people who understand all the conflicting thoughts and emotions.

 

Bob, you are right about the social aspect of church being something I don't particularly want to walk away from. I like the people and most of them are not zealots. It's more like a religious club. We Brits are not very good at enthusiasm! 

 

My husband has moved a long way too from our original ideas.  So, no problem there, thank goodness. He has always been one of those undemonstrative types. So he is quite happy to just go to church and sleep through the sermons. He always did anyway.

 

I was much more of a zealot, and so find it much more difficult.  Either I feel sucked back into the old mindset or I feel frustrated with all the rubbish that people spout!

 

I think it would be easier to be a liberal Christian (which is  where I've been intellectually for the last few years)  if I had started out as one. In comparison with fundamentalism it feels so wishy-washy. The "all or nothing" mindset is part of the indoctrination!

 

The first time in a theological discussion that someone called me a liberal my immediate reaction was that he must be insulting me.  Fortunately, I realised in time that he meant it as a compliment. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm a fellow Brit.

 

Hello

 

 

I can relate to your sentiments and share many of your views. I miss the structure church attendance gave to my life - the social thing (although I was upset when I discovered just how many of my 'friendships' were lost when I stiopped believing) and the feeling of reverence that came with worship.

 

I still pray and I have had some lengthy conversations with 'god' debating his existence. Even had a teary moving death bed conversation with god not so long ago and cried buckets when he drew his last breath in my head. Hard to explain.

 

There is a UK 'Progressive Christianity' organisation that has meetings. Sounds like it might suit. (I liked their 'creed' - it was a good transition document for me to work with) They have a website and a forum - but when I looked they only seemed to have three active members - which as one of them had commented, meant they didn't truly qualify as a forum .. more a threeum

[indoctrinated]

I'm a fellow Brit.

 

 

I still pray and I have had some lengthy conversations with 'god' debating his existence. Even had a teary moving death bed conversation with god not so long ago and cried buckets when he drew his last breath in my head. Hard to explain.

 

Thanks for the welcome, felllow Brits.

 

And thanks for sharing that, Hesitent. I found it helpful!

 

I've had some similar conversations too. I like that idea of saying goodbye to god. Just because he might be only a projection doesn't mean I won't miss him, sorta. Even an imaginary friendship needs closure!

 

It's all that sort of thing that I'm working through.

[Mr. Neil]

I think I'm some sort of Christian humanist, or agnostic Christian. I don't want to "leave" Christianity. That feels really negative. I want to "go" somewhere. I want like-minded people with similar values. I want "worship" or ritual, and fellowship and community, combined with intellectual honesty.

Well, I can't say anything about an afterlife. As far as I'm concerned, it's not there. I'm not trying to be grim. That's just the way I see reality.

 

However, there's nothing wrong with what you're doing. While not very common, there are liberal theists, deists, and even atheists who still find wholesomeness in Christianity. One good example of this is Robert M. Price.

 

You may want to check out his website when you've got time.

[Clergicide]

I think I'm some sort of Christian humanist, or agnostic Christian. I don't want to "leave" Christianity. That feels really negative. I want to "go" somewhere. I want like-minded people with similar values. I want "worship" or ritual, and fellowship and community, combined with intellectual honesty.

 

Well, I can't say anything about an afterlife.  As far as I'm concerned, it's not there.  I'm not trying to be grim.  That's just the way I see reality.

 

However, there's nothing wrong with what you're doing.  While not very common, there are liberal theists, deists, and even atheists who still find wholesomeness in Christianity.  One good example of this is Robert M. Price.

 

You may want to check out his website when you've got time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I still attend Catholic mass occasionally because I find the ritual of it entertaining. Though, I do cross my arms when it's time to receive the host. Not sure how much ritual you will find coupled with intellectual honesty, however. Why not join an Elks lodge or something, maybe try freemasonry...you'll find kinship, charitable work, and even a little ritual, the only difference is the spirit of Jesus isn't expected to attend.

[Christopher Carrion]

Hi there indoctrinated, I most certainly am british, although my situation is somewhat different to yours, never having been a Christian or raised in a religious environment myself. Is there life after religion? Well, I can tell you without equivocation that there's definitely life without it. Consider that what you refer to as the "happy clappy" feeling is itself a product of profound neuroticism; it is psychological insecurity, and a defence-mechanism against critically considering the concepts or parameters by which one determine's one's self definition. You've done the hard part; you are free. Now go forth, thou liberated mind, and use what faculties thou hast to determine one's place and purpose.

[Eudaimonist]

I want to "go" somewhere. I want like-minded people with similar values. I want "worship" or ritual, and fellowship and community, combined with intellectual honesty.

 

Is this possible? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you were living in Atlanta, Georgia, I would recommend the Fellowship of Reason.