bluewizard Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Ok, today I felt what Christians call the "holy ghost" bringing me to "salvation,and I felt something pull me away from salvation called the "devil". I just feel so confused as I felt these emotions, rationally Jesus isn't the Messiah and im sure the Bible isnt true, but IDK, these emotions have clouded me and I'm really confused right now, I dont believe in any God or Jesus, but these emotions seem like they might actually prove the Christian religion right is my fear. What happened? I'm not a Christian but why am I experiecning these emotions?: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Tell us more if you feel like it, bluewizard. It's hard to respond given the info you supply above. I remember well that on the public testimony board, several ex-preachers posted their testimonies from time to time. They spoke of how they knew how to manipulate people's emotions. Some of them felt sort of dirty doing it even when they were still into the church. Here's my shot in the dark: suppose it were a girl or boy you were attracted to (I forget your orientation, sorry!). You'd feel emotions pulling - fear vs. desire, or whatever. If someone came along with an overlay of religious talk and said God was leading you to that person, you might then interpret the desire as influenced by the Holy Spirit. But you'd have the emotion already. The religious language would add extra beliefs to the mix to make it more powerful, but it wouldn't correspond to any extra real entities. Another example: imagine you were a young Nazi or Communist in the time of Hitler or Stalin. Think of being in a crowd and the great man's picture is raised up on banners with flags, stirring music, speeches about the rightness of the ideology, the evils of the enemy, calls for you to put your life and heroism in the service of the revolution... not hard to think of being swept away by emotion either way, is it? But the two systems were mortal enemies. Same emotions, same mind techniques, different country, different talk. It doesn't surprise me that your associations in your mind lead you to think of the christian right. You are being wooed by a political system less unified but no less clever than nazism or communism. All these 'isms take simple living in harmony within yourself and with others and replace it with an authoritarian ideology. Go back to think about what you already know: all the contradictions in the Bible. Think of the immoral stuff that is praised, especially in the OT: genocide, rape, etc. Think of the character "God" who is glorified by the eternal suffering of his own creatures. Think of how the fundamentalist Christian system is against science, learning and reason. You know you have reason; you don't know there is any Holy Ghost. The Bible CANNOT be true. So your emotions need no explanation other than human psychological ones. You can't shut down part of yourself - your reason and good will - and ignore it and let emotion lead when emotion is produced in a charged crowd setting but not arising out of authentic experiences of your own. I think if you look into the question, what psychological interests within the person does christianity try to satisfy, you'll help yourself understand how the emotions get manipulated by it. The sad thing is that so many people then invest themselves in the belief system and necessarily ossify their own growth as humans in the world. Write back or even PM, bluewizard. Chill, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Ok, today I felt what Christians call the "holy ghost" bringing me to "salvation,and I felt something pull me away from salvation called the "devil". I just feel so confused as I felt these emotions, rationally Jesus isn't the Messiah and im sure the Bible isnt true, but IDK, these emotions have clouded me and I'm really confused right now, I dont believe in any God or Jesus, but these emotions seem like they might actually prove the Christian religion right is my fear. What happened? I'm not a Christian but why am I experiecning these emotions?: Not to make light of this BW, but is this post for real, or are you just making a funny? Your profile says you are an atheist, but you believe the holy ghost and devil are real? No offense and I hope you don't blame me, but I am a little skeptical Anyway assuming your post is genuine, how do emotions prove Christianity is right? How do you know Vishnu isn't trying to bring you to salvation and Allah isn't trying to pull you away? I guess what I am saying is have you really thought this thing through with a clear head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicksand Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 I remember well that on the public testimony board, several ex-preachers posted their testimonies from time to time. They spoke of how they knew how to manipulate people's emotions. Some of them felt sort of dirty doing it even when they were still into the church. From my understanding, this is exactly what the Pauline gospels rely on. Appeal to emotion, and not an appeal to reason which he knew would be rejected by the prevailing greek tradition of reason of the time. ___________________________________ BW, you've got feelings and that's great but as pointed out before, feelings don't validate anything. Here, let me get extreme here for second on the issue of "emotions". A man feels in the pit of his heart that the only way he can feel love is to have sex with childern. He feels it right? Then how can he be wrong? (I'll leave this question in rhetorical limbo for now.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indoctrinated Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Ok, today I felt what Christians call the "holy ghost" bringing me to "salvation,and I felt something pull me away from salvation called the "devil". I just feel so confused as I felt these emotions, rationally Jesus isn't the Messiah and im sure the Bible isnt true, but IDK, these emotions have clouded me and I'm really confused right now, I dont believe in any God or Jesus, but these emotions seem like they might actually prove the Christian religion right is my fear. What happened? I'm not a Christian but why am I experiecning these emotions?: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As a Christian I have experienced all sorts of emotions. I have had other experiences too. But so do people from other religions. It is part of being human and doesn't prove the truth of a religion one way or the other. Just because you are an atheist does not mean you are not susceptible. You may actually be even more susceptible because you may have thought it couldn't happen to you! Most people enter religions because of the emotions and rationalise it afterwards. Then it is very, very hard to leave. My advice is walk away. It may be hard, especially if you have been targeted by proselytisers. Walk away and stay away. Wait several months. Then investigate the religion from a distance and rationally. I wish I had had that choice! If in the cold light of day and from a distance you still feel it has merits then fine. I know the good and bad about Christianity, and believe me there are both! I also know the emotional and psychological forces from first-hand. Don't discount them. You are not immune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewizard Posted August 15, 2005 Author Share Posted August 15, 2005 Not to make light of this BW, but is this post for real, or are you just making a funny? Your profile says you are an atheist, but you believe the holy ghost and devil are real? No offense and I hope you don't blame me, but I am a little skeptical Anyway assuming your post is genuine, how do emotions prove Christianity is right? How do you know Vishnu isn't trying to bring you to salvation and Allah isn't trying to pull you away? I guess what I am saying is have you really thought this thing through with a clear head? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I dont think Christianity is right, I just had the emotions the preacher said I would have and it confused me, but the only reason I go is I have to every Sunday, it's not my choice, otherwise i'd never go back and no I don't believe in the devil or holy ghost. I understand it's a metal mind game but for maybe 2 or 3 hours after church I was very confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 When you go to Church, you will find that every mind control trick in the book will be used against you. The music and hymns are designed to put your mind in an receptive Alpha state. When you are in Alpha, you are more inclined to believe anything the Preacher tells you. We are all susceptible to these techniques. My best advice is to stay away from Church! I haven't been to Church since I left Christianity 30 years ago. Please check out the following article on how these brainwashing techniques work. The Battle for Your Mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 I dont think Christianity is right, I just had the emotions the preacher said I would have and it confused me, but the only reason I go is I have to every Sunday, it's not my choice, otherwise i'd never go back and no I don't believe in the devil or holy ghost. I understand it's a metal mind game but for maybe 2 or 3 hours after church I was very confused. I get the same emotions on Independence day when the fireworks are blasting and the patriotic music is in full gear, even though I'm an anarchist. Does that mean the spirit of Uncle Sam is real and beckoning? It's easy to get an emotional high under the right circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No More Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Hi Bluewizard, I found a good website that is for helping people to overcome the emotional tug of relgion. It helped me a lot. The author, Dr. Cornelis Mondt, says: "This site is intended to show you that these doubts and inner feelings are not a sign of divine presence lingering about, but rather the opposite: they are proof of the human origin of religion." http://cornelismondt.tripod.com/atheism/index.html Ok, today I felt what Christians call the "holy ghost" bringing me to "salvation,and I felt something pull me away from salvation called the "devil". I just feel so confused as I felt these emotions, rationally Jesus isn't the Messiah and im sure the Bible isnt true, but IDK, these emotions have clouded me and I'm really confused right now, I dont believe in any God or Jesus, but these emotions seem like they might actually prove the Christian religion right is my fear. What happened? I'm not a Christian but why am I experiecning these emotions?: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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