Guest SerenityNow Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Quite agree, Bob. Stop trying to PROVE your faith in Jesus/God. It can't be done. Just admit that you believe because you WANT to believe. There is NO "evidence that demands a verdict". Any such "evidence" would neatly nullify "faith". I have always said this about the Apostle Paul: HE WAS NOT A MAN OF FAITH! He couldn't have been, since he had so much "evidence" of "God"/"Jesus". After all, how much "faith" does it take to believe when you've SEEN the "resurrected and glorified Jesus"? How much faith does it take when you've been ushered into a level of heaven and heard unspeakable things and seen visions? How much faith do you need when the Holy Spook talks to you on a regular basis, giving you step-by-step instructions to follow? If I had had THIS kind of help when I was a Xian, then I would never have left! Who needs "faith" when you have PROOF? Isn't "faith" the "substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things NOT seen"? (Hebrews 11:1) Stop with the "logical, verifiable proof" attempts, Xians. You're shooting yourselves in the foot. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Never during Christianity nor since my deconversion have I ever had that thought run through my mind. Thomas was like the only one. IMHO, what you pointed out here deserves; Mr. Grinch, according to the bible stories, and more notably the disciples, ALL of them LITERALLY SAW Jesus. No FATIH what so ever and yet here we 2,000 years later and are expected believe this HEARSAY by faith. Makes absolutely ZERO sense. None of them needed faith, but yet we, according to the bible will be damned for not believing by faith. You have opened up a new door for me. Thanks so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Thankful, isn't it wonderful when you finally see something for the very first time and it just blows your mind? I'm glad you ran across Mr. Grinch's comment. It's a pretty significant gripe that some people allegedly got to see for themselves with their own two eyes what the rest of us are forced to accept, unseen. I'm excited for you, Thankful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trashy Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Never during Christianity nor since my deconversion have I ever had that thought run through my mind. Thomas was like the only one. IMHO, what you pointed out here deserves; Mr. Grinch, according to the bible stories, and more notably the disciples, ALL of them LITERALLY SAW Jesus. No FATIH what so ever and yet here we 2,000 years later and are expected believe this HEARSAY by faith. Makes absolutely ZERO sense. None of them needed faith, but yet we, according to the bible will be damned for not believing by faith. You have opened up a new door for me. Thanks so much! Oh thankful - John 20:29 "Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” " of course, Jesus was saying this regarding believing in his resurrection. Still, if you can believe it without seeing it you are blessed! But that is a great point, isn't it? We're supposed to have faith having never seen him, but yet his disciples watched miracle after miracle with their own eyes and STILL didn't believe in Jesus' power to perform miracles, not to mention his deity. Every time you flip the page in the Gospels he is berating their lack of belief. What great examples of faith they are....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 You have opened up a new door for me. Thanks so much! Well! You're ever so welcome, my dear! Glad to finally be able to return the favor, as you have said some stuff that has opened my "dim" vision as well. Ain't apostasy grand? P.S. - LOOVE the new avatar! If that's you, then your hubby may have to meet with an untimely "accident"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 But that is a great point, isn't it? We're supposed to have faith having never seen him, but yet his disciples watched miracle after miracle with their own eyes and STILL didn't believe in Jesus' power to perform miracles, not to mention his deity. Every time you flip the page in the Gospels he is berating their lack of belief. What great examples of faith they are....... Yes, but see, the idea of Christianity is to be absolutely more Christian then some other people. So being able to say that you have more faith then the disciples is practically a rite of passage. Who needs eye witness proof when you can just hang on to smug superiority instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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