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Goodbye Jesus

God Hates Fags...


Guest Johnathan

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Guest Johnathan

Not to long ago I shared with my immediate family that I am, not only gay, but also an Atheist. My mother is a pastor at a conservative non-denominational church. My extended family is full of fundamentalist Christians, including my grandfather who is a southern baptist preacher. As you can imagine my honesty was met with slight hostility. My immediate family has responded quite well, but the rest of the family would like to remind me that I am going to burn in hell.

 

Four days ago I received a note from my cousin (age 16) that told me exactly how much 'god' loves me. I'm sure you can imagine- he loves me enough to sadistically condemn his only son to die, purging me of the sin inherent in me (who is created in 'god's' image). I had not yet spoken to my cousin personally about either being gay or being an Atheist, so I gave a lengthy response to explain. In which I cited the work of Bruce Bagemihl and suggested she look at pro-gay Christian materials (such as wouldjesusdiscriminate.com). Later I recieved this response:

 

Hey, I have some things that I want to discuss, because I care about you. And not to pick a fight or make you feel like I'm attacking you, because that is not my intention at all. Before you claimed to be an atheist did u really believe that God existed? If so then you can not be a true atheist- you are an agnostic. A true atheist is when you believe there is no such thing as God or a higher being. The reason that non-human species are doing those things is because they are not made in God's image so they don't know any difference. Also, God put humans over animals for a reason- so that we could hunt and feast on them- not take in their actions. If you really believe that being gay is in genetics then you should look far into your past to see if any ancestors like the first strings of the Selfs are gay, and if they are it still wont prove it is, because if being gay is in your genetics then being straight is also and most people don't believe that is true. they believe that it is Gods intention to join a man and a woman, not two men. also the reason for mankind is to multiply and spread his word. This is impossible for two men to do so. The media and world are not safe places to find truth because being human we twist things that God instructs us and make it into what we want the truth to be like in our minds and our views because of our sinful nature. I don't want to offend you in any way at all for saying this but i just wanted you to see my views. Thanks! I love you.

 

NOTE: I've done a little proof-reading and spell-check to make her appear slightly less ignorant, and make her thoughts more readable. Also 'Self' is the family name that links us together. (We also have a gay relative that she is obviously unaware of, not to mention her ignorance as to the definition of Atheist vs. Agnostic.)

 

She is still young and obviously under the influence of her mother (also a pastor). How can I communicate with her without being stereotyped as the typical bitter Atheist? I am quite bitter, I will not lie, but I want to portray a positive image while still confronting the multiple fallacies in what she is saying. It is my hope that she will one day question her faith and liberate herself.

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Doesn't your mother know she is violating gawd's law by being a pastor (which is reserved only for men)? Yes, I am fully aware of the history of women in the church, but I am referring to the current interpretation.

 

Your cousin is only 16, so I would only take anything they say with a grain of salt--much like you should only take what I say with a grain of salt due to my age.

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Congratulations on coming out Johnathan! :D

Did a brave thing. I haven't even come out to my parents yet.

 

Best you can do is remain cool around them. Maybe they'll come around eventually.

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First, let me second Brought None's congratulation! :woohoo:

 

And as for your cousin...my take is, she's just a kid parroting a simplified version of what mommy tells her. She comes by her ignorance honestly. So send her a note back thanking her for her concern, without agreeing, and maybe throw in that if she ever has any questions about the material you sent her you'd be glad to talk about it. Then just keep being the cousin she knows and loves. Maybe seeing that you haven't become some satanic monster will be enough to tip her over the edge into questioning - and she'll know just where to go to help talk it out.

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It depends. If you really want to get into this discussion, tell her something like:

 

"Hi (cousin's name),

 

I appreciate you writing to me, it's been a while since we've been in contact. You are right that being an atheist means a lack of belief in gods, but it doesn't have any bearing on what someone believed before. An agnostic is someone who does not know whether or not a higher being exists. By your logic, since you didn't start out believing in gods, does that also make you and everyone you know an agnostic? What you call yourself always denotes what you believe or do not believe right now. I do not believe in a higher being, therefore I am an atheist regardless of what I believed in before or not. If I wasn't sure right now, I'd say I was an agnostic.

 

Second, to clarify genetics, sexual orientation is a human trait like walking on two legs and having eyes more than a specific family trait passed down like blue eyes. It's not something you choose to be, it's a perfectly normal way of living. We DO have gay relatives and ancestors, but most of them don't feel safe enough to mention it. You may well end up having a child that identifies as homosexual one day. Gay men and women get married and have children all the time. While it may not be with their same-sex partners, homosexuals have always entered in heterosexual marriages and partnerships so they may have children. These days, artificial insemination and adoption is a viable option for many homosexuals to build families with.

 

What have you been up to lately? How's school?

 

Love,

Jonathon"

 

If you want to nip it in the bud, something more along the lines of:

 

"The information I gave you could explain this far better than I can. I do hope you will take the time to learn and I'll be happy to answer any specific questions you have. But since I do not believe in a higher power, I am an Atheist regardless of what I believed in before. Take care, Love, Jonahthon."

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How about a simple,

 

"Thanks for writing. With all due respect, if god really exists, he can tell me himself what he expects of me. I prefer to get my information first hand, because a lot of people like to just make stuff up. I honestly don't believe god exists, because I've never met anyone who has seen him or heard from him directly. If you do, be sure to let me know, okay?"

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Guest Davka

How about a simple,

 

"Thanks for writing. With all due respect, if god really exists, he can tell me himself what he expects of me. I prefer to get my information first hand, because a lot of people like to just make stuff up. I honestly don't believe god exists, because I've never met anyone who has seen him or heard from him directly. If you do, be sure to let me know, okay?"

 

Mmmm - I've met lots of people who have heard from "god" directly. I myself became a Christian as a result of an auditory hallucination. So personally, I wouldn't go this route.

 

I do like the "god can tell me himself" line, though. Another that might work to shut up a xian is "It's not your job to convict me, it's the holy spirit's. Stop trying to be the holy spirit."

 

Nothing like using their own nonsense against them.

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Since we're giving made-up qualities to a made-up entity, why not "God hates people who hate fags"?

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How about a simple,

 

"Thanks for writing. With all due respect, if god really exists, he can tell me himself what he expects of me. I prefer to get my information first hand, because a lot of people like to just make stuff up. I honestly don't believe god exists, because I've never met anyone who has seen him or heard from him directly. If you do, be sure to let me know, okay?"

 

Mmmm - I've met lots of people who have heard from "god" directly. I myself became a Christian as a result of an auditory hallucination. So personally, I wouldn't go this route.

 

Well, in that case, the appropriate response would be, "Could you give him my phone number and ask him to give me a call? I tried that praying shit, and he's either ignoring me, or he doesn't exist."

 

I do like the "god can tell me himself" line, though. Another that might work to shut up a xian is "It's not your job to convict me, it's the holy spirit's. Stop trying to be the holy spirit."

 

Nothing like using their own nonsense against them.

 

Agreed. If their god has something to tell me, he can tell me directly. Of course, he should expect that I will be checking his credentials, so he'd better be prepared. ;)

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You could always email her this letter to Dr. Laura

Dear Dr. Laura,

 

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

 

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?

 

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

 

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

 

Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

 

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

 

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

 

Lev. 20:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

 

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

And congrats to coming out!
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If the reason for mankind is to multiply, then why are some women born sterile?

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Guest Johnathan

It depends. If you really want to get into this discussion, tell her something like:

 

"Hi (cousin's name),

 

I appreciate you writing to me, it's been a while since we've been in contact. You are right that being an atheist means a lack of belief in gods, but it doesn't have any bearing on what someone believed before. An agnostic is someone who does not know whether or not a higher being exists. By your logic, since you didn't start out believing in gods, does that also make you and everyone you know an agnostic? What you call yourself always denotes what you believe or do not believe right now. I do not believe in a higher being, therefore I am an atheist regardless of what I believed in before or not. If I wasn't sure right now, I'd say I was an agnostic.

 

Second, to clarify genetics, sexual orientation is a human trait like walking on two legs and having eyes more than a specific family trait passed down like blue eyes. It's not something you choose to be, it's a perfectly normal way of living. We DO have gay relatives and ancestors, but most of them don't feel safe enough to mention it. You may well end up having a child that identifies as homosexual one day. Gay men and women get married and have children all the time. While it may not be with their same-sex partners, homosexuals have always entered in heterosexual marriages and partnerships so they may have children. These days, artificial insemination and adoption is a viable option for many homosexuals to build families with.

 

What have you been up to lately? How's school?

 

Love,

Jonathon"

 

 

Thanks... This is good. I'll probably steal a lot of your ideas. Thanks!

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Be gentle with the kid. She's just a puppet of the hate of the adults in her life.

 

If you can bring her to a point where she empathizes with you as a person, she'll adjust her positions, slowly, to a more understanding point of view.

 

Just try to maintain as much communication over time as possible.

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congratulations on coming out, it's harder to do that than rejecting a religion. secondly how did it go? thirdly, i am amazed that your grandfather actually approves your mom and relative as female pastors, i knew a few southern baptist pastors/church members who would throw a major fit. since it violates "church constitution"

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Ask her why god would make over 1500 species partake in homosexual behavior, and why would he make it beneficial to them if he hates homosexuality so much.

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