Those That Never Heard...

[bird28]

So overhearing some random preacher my grandma was watching, I dunno who, he claimed that people who never heard the gospel, that God knows if they would have accepted if they heard it or not, so some will get saved and the others wouldn't.

 

Has anyone else heard any other interesting explanations about this problem?

[Ouroboros]

I have heard the same thing, or similar.

 

Which means no one really needs to spread the Gospel. Why evangelize when God know if the person would accept it or not anyway? Why not just let God pick-n'-choose. Basically, you end up with Calvinism, and it has nothing to do with belief anymore. So really, why even talk about belief then? Why not just conclude that God will pick those he will save by the criteria of height, shoe-size, hair color, and favorite TV show!

[oddbird1963]

So overhearing some random preacher my grandma was watching, I dunno who, he claimed that people who never heard the gospel, that God knows if they would have accepted if they heard it or not, so some will get saved and the others wouldn't.

 

Has anyone else heard any other interesting explanations about this problem?

 

 

Oh yes! That's a major issue to people with sensitivity and empathy. The truth is the bible doesn't really answer that question.

 

Some teach, quoting Romans Chapter 1, that people know enough about god from observing the natural order to either accept or reject god. But that doesn't really answer the question that's being asked. But at least they try to use scripture to justify this argument.

 

This argument, "God knows if they would have accepted if they heard it or not, so some will get saved and the others wouldn't." which I've heard before is complete speculation. It's like putting butter on a burn. It doesn't really do any good, but , hey, at least you're doing something. The answer has no basis in scripture, but hey, at least it's an answer.

 

The new testament divides the world into three camps: the church ("saved," "elect," "saints" and what have ye), the jews and the pagans.

 

The pagans are evil because they worship other gods and commit despicable acts of total depravity.

 

The jews depend on the law to save them but rejected YHWH's messiah.

 

The church - well, they are the new chosen people. Jews will be saved only by accepting christ, as will the gentiles. Eventually all the jews will accept christ.

 

To the new testament, there are no good pagans and the issue of "what if they've never heard" is not really applicable because, by definition, pagans are despicable and depraved.

[Guest Davka]

I've heard that argument, as well as these:

 

- God does not judge people for ignorance, he judges them for rebellion.

 

- God judges everyone according to what they do with the light they have received.

 

The first of those at least has some Biblical backing in the OT. The second one? Not so much. It sounds good, though.

 

The thing is, no matter how you slice it the majority of humanity will go to Hell according to the Bible. Even if God made a way for those who never heard the Gospel, he's still a vindictive bastard who created the majority of mankind knowing that they would sin and burn in Hell forever.

[Seeking]

- God does not judge people for ignorance, he judges them for rebellion. (...)

 

The first of those at least has some Biblical backing in the OT. The second one? Not so much. It sounds good, though.

 

Actually, I just found last night in Leviticus 4 a whole list of punishments and required offerings for people who sin unintentionally. So even though they were ignorant of the law of God, they were still guilty of breaking it and had to make atonement.

[OpheliaGinger]

I've heard this in reference to the question of do people go to hell simply because they had never heard of Jesus.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

Which means no one really needs to spread the Gospel. Why evangelize when God know if the person would accept it or not anyway? Why not just let God pick-n'-choose. Basically, you end up with Calvinism, and it has nothing to do with belief anymore. So really, why even talk about belief then? Why not just conclude that God will pick those he will save by the criteria of height, shoe-size, hair color, and favorite TV show!

 

When I was a little kid, I remember asking my grandma about where Native Americans went after they died... you know, before the Europeans came and started converting them (*cough*atgunpoint*cough*). "Well, God knows our hearts, so he knows if they would have come to Christ," is pretty much what she said.

 

Funny, though... my family's Assembly of God, a sect that supposedly doesn't believe in predestination...

[Guest]

Which means no one really needs to spread the Gospel. Why evangelize when God know if the person would accept it or not anyway? Why not just let God pick-n'-choose. Basically, you end up with Calvinism, and it has nothing to do with belief anymore. So really, why even talk about belief then? Why not just conclude that God will pick those he will save by the criteria of height, shoe-size, hair color, and favorite TV show!

 

When I was a little kid, I remember asking my grandma about where Native Americans went after they died... you know, before the Europeans came and started converting them (*cough*atgunpoint*cough*). "Well, God knows our hearts, so he knows if they would have come to Christ," is pretty much what she said.

 

Funny, though... my family's Assembly of God, a sect that supposedly doesn't believe in predestination...

 

I was evangelical lutheran and was told all the Native Americans are burning in hell forever, doesn't matter that they never heard of jesus. It's the first time I remember thinking "that's just not right"...

[Shyone]

Theologians are desparately trying to backtrack on the harsh and unforgiving doctrines that condemn "innocent" and good people, including children, to hell.

 

So, *poof* Hell disappears. All they had to do was change their doctrine/mind.

 

Hey, let's invent our own religion! Just kidding.

 

This is kind of a non sequitur, but it's funny:

 

Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"

Priest: "No, not if you did not know."

Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"

-- Annie Dillard, 'Pilgrim at Tinker Creek'

[dagnarus]

Which means no one really needs to spread the Gospel. Why evangelize when God know if the person would accept it or not anyway? Why not just let God pick-n'-choose. Basically, you end up with Calvinism, and it has nothing to do with belief anymore. So really, why even talk about belief then? Why not just conclude that God will pick those he will save by the criteria of height, shoe-size, hair color, and favorite TV show!

 

When I was a little kid, I remember asking my grandma about where Native Americans went after they died... you know, before the Europeans came and started converting them (*cough*atgunpoint*cough*). "Well, God knows our hearts, so he knows if they would have come to Christ," is pretty much what she said.

 

Funny, though... my family's Assembly of God, a sect that supposedly doesn't believe in predestination...

 

I was evangelical lutheran and was told all the Native Americans are burning in hell forever, doesn't matter that they never heard of jesus. It's the first time I remember thinking "that's just not right"...

 

I remember once herding a story about an Indian tribe where some prophets rose up (inspired by god) and told them some stuff which led them to be ready to receive the gospel when the missionaries came several generations later.

 

I asked whether the prophets were saved. Turns out no.

[OpheliaGinger]

This is kind of a non sequitur, but it's funny:

 

Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"

Priest: "No, not if you did not know."

Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"

-- Annie Dillard, 'Pilgrim at Tinker Creek'

 

What the priest was secretly thinking: "Because we want to make your life a living hell, too."

[Vixentrox]

This is kind of a non sequitur, but it's funny:

 

Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"

Priest: "No, not if you did not know."

Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"

-- Annie Dillard, 'Pilgrim at Tinker Creek'

 

What the priest was secretly thinking: "Because we want to make your life a living hell, too."

...and to get our hands on your money....errr...ivory and seal pelts.

[dagnarus]

This is kind of a non sequitur, but it's funny:

 

Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"

Priest: "No, not if you did not know."

Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"

-- Annie Dillard, 'Pilgrim at Tinker Creek'

 

What the priest was secretly thinking: "Because we want to make your life a living hell, too."

 

Actually I remember hearing a testimony from a guy in my old church about how before when he'd go out to preach the gospel he would used to hope that they wouldn't believe because he didn't want them to enter into the same hell he was in. He said that this was back before he'd joined our of course superior church, but when I considered what I knew of him personally I realized that actually he was still in the same hell just with a different coloured wall.

 

I never reached that point myself but realize that if I had stayed that would have likely been my fate.

 

On the one hand I pity him because he is trapped in a system which is a parasite sucking the join out of his one life, yet at the same time he is actively going out to bring others into bondage while knowing first hand that their claims of bringing the true joy, and satisfaction are false.

[HRDWarrior]

This is an arguement my mother and I were having not too long ago - even when I adherred to christianity, this was a question I never soundly resolved. So, while trying to still keep my deconversion under the radar, I told her that I thought we'd be suprised at how many people from other religions were in heaven. This was one of her reasons for concluding I was no longer christian (because it's not what SHE thinks). The funny part of it is that she's sure there will be native americans in heaven because they believed in a god over all the others (the Great Spirit), but all Muslims, Buddhists, Hindues, and every other religion out there will be cast into hell because Jesus "is the only way."

 

The only explanation I have for her reasoning is that she's actually met and talked with native americans about their beliefs, and therefore has personal experience that they are real people who truly believe what they do. She's probably never met anyone of any other faith (other than the occasional naturalist or "pagan") - and those she only debates the merits of christianity with, so that reinforces her beliefs.

 

It's a circular arguement...I think that's why when I was a christian I took more the calvinist stance in that it was god's doing, not mine. Plus, I hated evangelizing, and never did see the point of it, so that supported my own thoughts.

 

Funny how you can analyze things so well once you're on the other side LOL!