Fundamental questions ...

[Dio]

Pardon my ignorance, but could somebody help me with this? I'm going to discuss this with an acquaintance of mine who is a believer and I want to be prepared.

 

Where does the Bible claim to be the very Word of God?

 

The closest I know of is 2 Tim 3:16 - "All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness..."

 

But if God is the Source and Creator of all things, then isn't everything 'inspired by God'? Isn't it a leap of logic (or faith) to stretch this into the Bible uniquely being the very words of God?

 

For that matter, where does Jesus openly and distinctly claim to be divine, that is, a deity?

 

And where exactly does it say that all unbelievers are condemned to everlasting torment no matter their conduct?

 

These three "facts" are the very pillars of evangelical fundamentalist faith, yet they are only vaguely and ambiguously referenced in their own sacred writings. Aren't they merely extra-biblical constructs of the early post-Nicene and medieval church? Are they even Pauline?

 

Please let me know if I'm on the wrong track here.

[thomas]

Where does the Bible claim to be the very Word of God?

 

The closest I know of is 2 Tim 3:16 - "All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness..."

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The bible as we know it today (except for a few changes made by Martin Luther) came into existence at the church meeting in Nicene. Before that, there were not a sharp line between inspired and not so inspired scripture. Vereses like 2 Tim 3:16 do not refer to the bible as we know it today.

 

Fundies also like to takes verses from OT talking about the word of god being a light, or about the law of god. They tend to think that "word of god" = bible and "law of god" = bible. But that's totally unjustified.

 

 

But if God is the Source and Creator of all things, then isn't everything 'inspired by God'?  Isn't it a leap of logic (or faith) to stretch this into the Bible uniquely being the very words of God?

 

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Yes, I think so.

 

 

For that matter, where does Jesus openly and distinctly claim to be divine, that is, a deity?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

According to the gospels, Jesus calls himself the "son of man". He does call god his father (and many christians do the same), but as far as I am aware, he never claims to be a deity.

 

 

And where exactly does it say that all unbelievers are condemned to everlasting torment no matter their conduct?

 

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I do not think the bible is clear about it. Once again evangelicals rely on some interpretations, that hardly can be justified. Through Church history there has always been a tention between people who primarily see Jesus as a role model, and those who think we are so enslaved by sin, that something extraordinary is needed to save us.

 

Martin Luther belonged (like Augustin and Paul) to the last category, and took the idea about justification by the grace of god (through faith) to an extreme. Traditional Lutheran/protestant teaching about justification is clearly incompatible with James.

 

 

 

These three "facts" are the very pillars of evangelical fundamentalist faith, yet they are only vaguely and ambiguously referenced in their own sacred writings.  Aren't they merely extra-biblical constructs of the early post-Nicene and medieval church?  Are they even Pauline?

 

Please let me know if I'm on the wrong track here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think you are on the right track.