Guest S.gal83 Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 I used to be a christian for 7 years. I lost faith in the christian god because of what he did in the old testament, and also because of how he sent people to hell for not believing in him. Since then, I have a vague notion of God. I think God creates this world, but I don't worship or pray to him. I think God's moral is questionable. So, that is my current belief. God creates this wold. He is immoral. I don't worship or pray to him, though I believe he is real. I do not know what to label my belief under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 An immoral creator God? Sounds a bit like gnosticism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism But you don't really need to slap a label on yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I used to be a christian for 7 years. I lost faith in the christian god because of what he did in the old testament, and also because of how he sent people to hell for not believing in him. Since then, I have a vague notion of God. I think God creates this world, but I don't worship or pray to him. I think God's moral is questionable. So, that is my current belief. God creates this wold. He is immoral. I don't worship or pray to him, though I believe he is real. I do not know what to label my belief under. Do you maybe mean ammoral instead of immoral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted August 4, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted August 4, 2009 I don't worship or pray to him, though I believe he is real. Is there any reason you believe that, other than habit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.gal83 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I used to be a christian for 7 years. I lost faith in the christian god because of what he did in the old testament, and also because of how he sent people to hell for not believing in him. Since then, I have a vague notion of God. I think God creates this world, but I don't worship or pray to him. I think God's moral is questionable. So, that is my current belief. God creates this wold. He is immoral. I don't worship or pray to him, though I believe he is real. I do not know what to label my belief under. Do you maybe mean ammoral instead of immoral? I actually thinks of God as immoral than ammoral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.gal83 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I don't worship or pray to him, though I believe he is real. Is there any reason you believe that, other than habit? I had seen some miracles happening with my own eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted August 7, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted August 7, 2009 God creates this wold. He is immoral. I don't worship or pray to him, though I believe he is real.I do not know what to label my belief under. The label would be "Disgruntled Christian." Since you say god is immoral, that had to come from the portrayal of him in the Bible. You believe in the Bible god, but don't like him. I had seen some miracles happening with my own eyes. Even if what you perceive and believe to be 'miracles' actually occurred, that wouldn't imply anything about the existence of the god that you're familiar with from Christianity. Or any other god, for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I don't worship or pray to him, though I believe he is real. Is there any reason you believe that, other than habit? That thought was one that switched me to atheism. Why does humanity even have any concept of "God"? Since looking into it, I learned that gods have a long history, all of which can't be true, and when I connected the dots I saw that "Anu", the chief God of the Sumerians, had been passed down through society after society until the Babylonian conquest of Israel. If you would worship Anu, then Yahweh is your God. Or any other supremely powerful god. Heck, make up your own. Everyone else has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRDWarrior Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I would agree with florduh that you still believe in the god of the Bible, for the reason he posted (you still believe the biblical representation of that god). My husband still believes in a "god," supernatural being, or higher intellegence...and although he still clings to some of the Bible stuff (at least in words), I would say he's developed a better idea of still believing there is a god without clinging to the biblical notions of said being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.gal83 Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I had seen some miracles happening with my own eyes. Even if what you perceive and believe to be 'miracles' actually occurred, that wouldn't imply anything about the existence of the god that you're familiar with from Christianity. Or any other god, for that matter. Well, the miracles I had seen occured under a christian context, so I will think the christian god is responsible for them. As for immorality of God, yes, the bible is what made me convinced of the immorality of God. I am judging God using the standard I will judge any human being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Well, the miracles I had seen occured under a christian context, so I will think the christian god is responsible for them. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Well, the miracles I had seen occured under a christian context, so I will think the christian god is responsible for them. Not necessarily. Lets say, for the sake of argument that some kind of supernatural things exist. But instead of the traditional religious view, lets say that we all have abilities to do things, like X-Men style. Lets say that when you gathered together in the context of Christianity, one of the persons had the healing power ability or something else, and the miracle happened because he/she had this ability. Then it wasn't the context of Christianity that answered how and what, but the composition of who was there at the moment of miracle. There are other religions that report miracles too, and they can't all be the right religion, and it can't be that all these different gods (including Christian) are the only true one, but the answer could rather be what I'm stating above. It would actually answer the problem better, since it would solve the question of why miracles happens in almost every religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted September 5, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted September 5, 2009 If there were miracles, they wouldn't necessarily need any god to perform them. Why isn't it just as likely to do it with mind power? Sorry, to date I have seen no evidence of miracles or gods, and I have really looked everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franko47 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Apparantly my great-grandfather could "charm blood", find lost objects, and warn neighbours about impending storms and so on; quite a bit of lore built up around him in the village where he settled. Yet he never attributed these skills to any particular deity; he told my grandmother that such powers were part of nature and was very humble about not wanting to claim "special status" with the Christian God over it. (anyone of that era would of course be some kind of Christian or pay lip service to it) Interesting stuff, since I inherited my Grandma's diary journal some years ago. Of course there are miracles galore throughout every religion and culture in the world; to believe that such powers are restricted to Christian belief is mere elitism. I once had a Christian pastor tell me that miracles performed by people of other religions were actually "plots by Satan" to trick people into worshipping "that other faith", and you will find this as a common excuse among many fundies. (ask them) On another note, it's curious to believe that a being powerful and intelligent enough to create the Universe and nature and humans and so on could be as laughable in method and system as is presented by Christianity or any of the Abrahamic faiths, for that matter. This was a big part of my deconversion as well, the constant observation that claims about such a fantastic being consisted of continous acts of ruthlessness, genocide, temper tantrums, or for that matter just "bad planning". No cosmic intellect could be that incompetant. Such a being would more likely be rebuking humankind FOR NOT USING RATIONAL THOUGHT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE rather than the other way around. Since it is rational thought and sound philosophical reasoning that has led to a better and just world, not BIBLICAL PRINCIPLES. This is the message that the modern rationalist must keep expressing and exploring. Sorry, but it's time for us to hit religionists over the head with their own beliefs in this regard. Our modern world is not based on "religion", it's based upon sound thinking started by Greek philosophers and brought back by renaissance humanism. That's right: Humanism. Secular justice for all humanism. You know, like we're all "equal" in dignity and before the law. Acceptance of the freedom and autonomy of the individual. Stuff that religion did not come up with, but in fact has railed against the whole way. Ok, I'm ranting now. Sorry. Had a run-in last night with a fundy, and yes, it was disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decafaholic Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 I used to be a christian for 7 years. I lost faith in the christian god because of what he did in the old testament, and also because of how he sent people to hell for not believing in him. That's how my deconversion sort of started. First I was really mad at God, like my prayer time consisted of saying "I'm angry with you and that's all I have to say." Then it very slowly morphed into atheism. A GREAT memior to read if you believe in god and consider him immoral is "Foreskin's Lament". it's written by a Jewish guy who, because of his strict orthodox upbringing, both fears and hates the god he can't stop believing in. It really is a funny read! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franko47 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Of course there are miracles galore throughout every religion and culture in the world; to believe that such powers are restricted to Christian belief is mere elitism. I once had a Christian pastor tell me that miracles performed by people of other religions were actually "plots by Satan" to trick people into worshipping "that other faith", and you will find this as a common excuse among many fundies. (ask them) I had a Pentecostal once tell me about feeling like he was being electrocuted (in a really nice way) by what he identified as God. I later read about the new age/yogic kundalini awakening in a non-Christian memoir, Eat, Pray, Love: One Woman's Search for Everything Across Italy, India and Indonesia. The kundalini awakening is profoundly similar to the experience the Pentecostal described, but with dignity. The irony is that the kundalini awakening is also called "Serpent Power". The energy that is released and fills one with a profound sense of oneness with the divine is described as a serpent coiled at the base of the spine. Oh, the ways this can be interpreted! It's interesting to note, Phanta, that years ago when I experimented with Transcendental Meditation , I would sometimes have "experiences" along these lines. I had studied some Hinduism, Sufism, and Theosophy (my aunt used to be into all that stuff) and felt the "coiled serpent" a few times sending power up my spine. I even had a neat experience during that time where I felt momentarily transformed into a "super being", but that's what happens when you're also reading Frank Herbert's "DUNE" series at the same time. This whole mind/body feedback/experiential "thing" can be quite a trip for those who really get into it. I chalked most of it up to "what an imagination I've got", but others would likely interpret these things as "verification". I had a friend around that time who was in experimental psychology at a nearby university. He did the "sensory deprivation" thing as originally pioneered by Dr. John C. Lilly, and had quite a "trip" with it. The mind is a powerful thing; since those days and my deconversion, I continue to enjoy my imagination, as all people should, but always keeping in mind that that's all it mostly is - imagination and phenomenon. While enjoying my brief moments of cosmic consciousness, I still had to got to work the next day and feed the cat. Despite the flights of fancy we can enjoy as humans, the real world is always still there, and in the end reality will always be the final arbiter. To be honest, I find a good video game in sorround stereo to be a better trip than trying to get in touch with dead gods or kundalini spinal serpents. Maybe a little healthier, too. My post here is by no means an attempt to belittle or criticize meditation practices or alternate forms of mysticism. These experiences can have value regardless of what we might make of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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