More Credibility If You Sinned

[Mutate]

did anyone notice that those people in church who used to be drug addicts, promiscous, etc, were always more respected and looked up to than those who had led a dull/moral life. They always gave super entertaining, ecxiting testimonies about their seedy adventures, and then end it with "but it didnt fulfil me so I turned to Jesus". Then, everyone respects them and listens to their opinion most cause they've "been there, man". They say a sinful life bad and unfulfiling, but they show that a sinful life makes one much more clever and credible, someone everyone looks up to and goes to for advice.

[Vendredie]

Yep. And then you get the "normal" folks telling kids "this is what happens when you don't follow Jesus!"

 

So annoying.

[Mutate]

yeah, it only makes kids from christian families jealous of the sinners and need to emulate them. how can you possibly get saved if you havent done your thrilling seedy adventure yet?

[Deva]

I remember in the Baptist church there would occasionally be the evening for testimonies. Even though I was still a Christian it would always make me cringe. Same type of story over and over, about how they were a drunk or on drugs or something else and then on a certain specific date they were "saved" and oh yes, they had to say the exact date.

 

Why was the exact date so important? To establish their credibility? I though myself that I had prayed the "sinner's prayer" but I couldn't remember the exact date. Why could they say "June 20, 1954" or something like that? That used to bother the hell out of me for some reason.

 

It was bragging, pure and simple, and a way to elevate themselves. It makes me sick to think about it.

[Guest Davka]

Oh, yeah, I had MAJOR church cred back in the day, because my life was so totally amoral and freaky. If I wasn't such an authority-questioner, I could have been rocketed to leadership and making the big bucks in no time. I was being "groomed" by the pastor of a megachurch within 6 months of my conversion, and put into leadership positions I was totally not ready for, all because I'd been such a fun-loving heathen.

 

Freaking weird.

[ShallowByThyGame]

There is nothing so joyful to any human cause as the enemy converting, thus validating your worldview and moral superiority.

 

And of course this is what the prodigal son is all about too.

 

It is scary to consider that the respected ones are the ones that were actually able to do bad things to begin with, as opposed to those who actually followed the rules...maybe that's why there are so many religious scandals...

[OpheliaGinger]

It is also a way of living vicariously through someone else.

[oddbird1963]

I wonder if anybody has done a study of how long people who undergo such radical conversion experiences actually stay off of drugs and stay out of their "ol' sinful ways."

 

A pastor I once knew rocketed to local, small town stardom due to his extreme conversion. He really played up his "before Christ" and "after Christ."

 

Within a few years (less than a decade) he was back into that lifestyle again.

[Autonomous]

Yep and then there's the lowest level of people- those who have developed problems since they became Christians and haven't been able to "get victory" over them... yep that was me, I developed an eating disorder and depression. I did get clear of it, by following a special eating plan. But then my church told me I was still in bondage to food and should be able to eat my binge foods in moderation. So I went off it. Gained 100lbs in 3 years. Thanks guys. I was told I was already free and just needed to walk in it (by a guy who quit alcoholism and gambling the day he was converted, and is now an evangelist and "healer"). I left church crying that day and feeling like the lowest of the low and so so guilty for my inability to "walk in freedom". Bah!

 

(As a postscript I am now back on the plan, 99% binge free and have lost 60lbs so far).

 

I'll tell you what didn't fulfill me, what left me with an empty hole inside I was trying to fill with food and shopping etc.... CHRISTIANITY!!! Yep I had a god-shaped hole in those days, the hole where god was supposed to be, but since he doesn't, there was nothing there!

[Vixentrox]

I wonder if anybody has done a study of how long people who undergo such radical conversion experiences actually stay off of drugs and stay out of their "ol' sinful ways."

 

A pastor I once knew rocketed to local, small town stardom due to his extreme conversion. He really played up his "before Christ" and "after Christ."

 

Within a few years (less than a decade) he was back into that lifestyle again.

Sometimes I wonder if people don't make that shit up to get attention. Move to a new community and head to local church, "I was a crack whore in Chicago, living on the streets or if lucky with my pimp. I'd suck strangers dicks for crack or meth or whatever but then I found jesus!"

[Vigile]

I grew up in church and when there had a lot of friends with pretty much the same experience. We used to kind of laugh at the guys who got "saved" in their late teens, early 20s after crashing and burning. They were always the uber dogmatic types. We smuggly thought they were babes in their walk and that their fire was child-like in its exaggeration.

 

Then there were the guys we were sure made up shit just to make themselves sound supper bad ass before they were saved. One guy in my church claimed he had been kidnapped by the Illuminati, who drugged him and turned him into a satan worshiper, which led to a life of crime and got him thrown into prison (Mike Warnke syndrome). Like the other former "bad" guys, he was a total pain in the ass to be around as he would run around telling everyone they were wrong in their biblical interpretations and thought it his duty to make sure that others in the flock were holding up to his standards of purity.

[OpheliaGinger]

I wonder if anybody has done a study of how long people who undergo such radical conversion experiences actually stay off of drugs and stay out of their "ol' sinful ways."

 

A pastor I once knew rocketed to local, small town stardom due to his extreme conversion. He really played up his "before Christ" and "after Christ."

 

Within a few years (less than a decade) he was back into that lifestyle again.

Sometimes I wonder if people don't make that shit up to get attention. Move to a new community and head to local church, "I was a crack whore in Chicago, living on the streets or if lucky with my pimp. I'd suck strangers dicks for crack or meth or whatever but then I found jesus!"

 

I'm assuming it was more along the lines of, "I used meth once and cried because I knew I had done a 'bad'."

 

People just want to hear something really juicy, even if it is false. But you can readily discredit anyone who claims to have had dealings with any such conspiracy organizations such as the Illuminati. [The Illuminati did exist at one time during the 1700s, I think, but faded away to nothing and dissolved.]

[TheYoYo]

It's definitely true that no-one's interested in people who grew up in Christian familes and decided to stay Christian, without going majorly off the rails. Boooring!

 

I was never on drugs or anything, but the drama queen in me loved to go on about how my family were atheists, and how I used to be really rebellious as a kid, how I quit Guides (Girl Scouts) because they wanted me to go to church, how I used to wind up RE teachers, and so on. Because the church loves that kind of shit...

[PaulQ]

I decided to quit smoking at roughly around the same time I quit religion. I also decided to give up heavy drinking. Mostly because giving up religion made me recognize the true value of this life.

[Vigile]

Well, if anyone here wants to become a local hero and probably get a sweet book deal all you have to do is reconvert and renounce your atheism [fill in the blank].

[RaisedPB]

did anyone notice that those people in church who used to be drug addicts, promiscous, etc, were always more respected and looked up to than those who had led a dull/moral life. They always gave super entertaining, ecxiting testimonies about their seedy adventures, and then end it with "but it didnt fulfil me so I turned to Jesus". Then, everyone respects them and listens to their opinion most cause they've "been there, man". They say a sinful life bad and unfulfiling, but they show that a sinful life makes one much more clever and credible, someone everyone looks up to and goes to for advice.

 

I think life-long christians also like those testimonies because it helps validate for them that they're not missing anything. Any of those worldly activities just lead to addiction and misery, so I'm glad I didn't go through that. I think it helps them keep their temptations at bay, in some strange way.

 

 

Steve

[Realist]

did anyone notice that those people in church who used to be drug addicts, promiscous, etc, were always more respected and looked up to than those who had led a dull/moral life. They always gave super entertaining, ecxiting testimonies about their seedy adventures, and then end it with "but it didnt fulfil me so I turned to Jesus". Then, everyone respects them and listens to their opinion most cause they've "been there, man". They say a sinful life bad and unfulfiling, but they show that a sinful life makes one much more clever and credible, someone everyone looks up to and goes to for advice.

 

.... yes, exactly right! Same here in New Zealand! I remember probably in the late 1960's being driven 100 miles to hear the testimony of visiting black American ex-Harlem Lords gang member Tom Skinner!

[godlessgrrl]

I wonder, too, if stories like that are so popular because they're the best "evidence" anyone has to offer for Christianity.

 

Note that I ain't sayin' they're good evidence; in fact they're highly spun anecdotal crap. But they sound good and powerful and uplifting and they're emotionally moving, so they make it sound like Jeebus is really working powerfully in people's lives. Maybe Christians need stories like that to "prove" their beliefs, both to themselves and to others, because they sure as shit don't have much else.

 

And like I always say: you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar, but you can catch even more flies with bullshit.

[Deva]

I will admit that some of these testimonies are very powerful. I heard one Russian man talk about spending years in a Soviet prison and how all that kept him going was his faith in Christ.

 

This was many years ago, probably in the 70s. I don't now have any idea if it was real or not or what the guy's name was, but it left an impression on me for a long time. He spoke with complete sincerity and utter conviction. If he was faking it, he ought to have gotten an Oscar.

[RaisedPB]

I will admit that some of these testimonies are very powerful. I heard one Russian man talk about spending years in a Soviet prison and how all that kept him going was his faith in Christ.

 

This was many years ago, probably in the 70s. I don't now have any idea if it was real or not or what the guy's name was, but it left an impression on me for a long time. He spoke with complete sincerity and utter conviction. If he was faking it, he ought to have gotten an Oscar.

 

I doubt he was faking and most likely he was very sincere. Faith is a powerful thing. I have seen it have strong influences on people. Of course, that doesn't make it true, but can be very emotionally persuasive.

[Amethyst]

Yes, this seems to be the Christian religion's version of weight loss success stories. You know, the ones who lost 200 pounds or more, and of course they did it with their own efforts and have repented of their non-exercising and junk-food eating ways, and by some modicrum of luck (or modern medicine) manage not to gain it back.

 

It's funny how we never hear about the ones who lose weight and gain it back, just like we never hear about the ones who leave the church and don't sin, or even the normal people who lead mundane lives, and the worst law they ever break is a minor traffic violation. The vast majority of people are normal, law-abiding citizens. They aren't as shiny and attractive to the church as the ones who commit crimes and use Christianity as a means for acceptance.

[Neon Genesis]

I wonder, too, if stories like that are so popular because they're the best "evidence" anyone has to offer for Christianity.

 

Note that I ain't sayin' they're good evidence; in fact they're highly spun anecdotal crap. But they sound good and powerful and uplifting and they're emotionally moving, so they make it sound like Jeebus is really working powerfully in people's lives. Maybe Christians need stories like that to "prove" their beliefs, both to themselves and to others, because they sure as shit don't have much else.

 

And like I always say: you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar, but you can catch even more flies with bullshit.

I think that's true as well. Like when my parents' church was starting this read the bible through 90 day program, the preacher was talking about how the guy who ran the program supposedly used to be an agnostic but converted to Christianity just from reading the entire bible. They used this as proof that the bible is so powerful, that it can even convert an agnostic. But they conveniently left out the part that the guy mentions on his site that he converted to Christianity half-way through reading the OT which made me suspicious of his claims. But this kind of thing has been happening ever since the days of the early church as you can see it all over Paul's letters. It seems like in every other letter he writes, Paul is bragging about how he used to persecute xtians as a Jew until he saw the light and he was constantly using his conversion experience to give himself credibility as an apostle. I wonder if this is why in modern times, xtians read Paul's letters more often than they do the letters supposedly written by the other apostles, because the other apostles' conversion experiences aren't as exciting since they were just ordinary fishermen but Paul was an evil murderer so it makes for a more exciting story.

[Guest E-3]

Most of the testimonies that I've heard ended up being a purely emotional decision. They feel empty and fearful of roasting for all eternity, so one day they decide to throw all of that emotional baggage into the hands of Jebus. It makes me wonder, are some of these people better off in the church over the long haul? For some people an initial dependence on the church may be a much better option than continuing to live a destructive lifestyle.

[mwc]

That's how they get their xian "street cred." They were lost and now they're found. So they had to be either low-lifes (criminals, junkies, etc.) or other believers (evil atheists, agnostic, misc. other xian like Mormon/JW, Satanist, Buddhist, etc.). Backslider works here too but it's slightly less powerful. They need to be prodigals and on the path to hell. They need to be "of the flesh." To the point where, if a man, they might touch a penis (even if their own) or if a woman they might touch a penis (even if their own ).

 

mwc

[OpheliaGinger]

And like I always say: you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar, but you can catch even more flies with bullshit.

 

Unless you are in England where people put vinegar as topping on their food.

 

I am kidding of course.