bluewizard Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Yes, he finally found out, probably cause he ordered books on amazon and the books I browsed where atheist, wicca, and Satanic books. he said we gotta talk, I told him I was a deist to make things easier and I didn't believe in Heaven, Hell, or the afterlife, I told him I believed in a Creator, not the Bible God., and about our Founding Fathers being deist, He's convinced his religion Christianity is true cause of his dreams about my dead granddad in Heaven with angels and he says he can feel the presence of God. I told him that's your beliefs. His Christian beliefs are if you're not a Christian you go to Hell and I debated with him on that. He said when I was younger the church people thought I'd become a preacher I was so dedicated with "God's power". He said if you don't change your beliefs you're nopt going to Heaven and I explained the hell concept came form Zoroastrianism. I knew he was sad about it but if he didn't want to know he shouldn't have asked me. He said I feel like a failure and I told him you're not a failure and hugged him, and said this wa sme, not you Dad. I feel bad and sad now. But I hope I don't have to go to church anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Hey Blue Wizard! From what I've seen, talking about real life, the here and now, is often hard when people are close and fear change. But it's usually always better than avoiding topics. It's good that this came into the open. It's great that you showed your father you love and appreciate him. It's great that you maintained your integrity and spoke what you believe. You sound like a pretty smart and cool person, so your dad is not likely to be hugely unwise - to my guess, anyway. So I think it's a good step that's been taken. Maybe in future you will actually become closer if you can respect and level with each other. Something about the dictates of the innermost recesses of your mind and conscience is not on a level with family rules about when you have to take out the garbage, etc. and I'm sure he understands that. If he comes out with the "as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord, so you must go to church with us while you live under this roof" thing, maybe he can actually understand why that will do more harm than good. If in the end you need a fall-back position, I don't think you'll violate truth if you find it wisest for the peace of the family to say, if push really comes to shove, I'll go out of respect but I can't believe that, or something of the kind. You spoke a while ago about your anger toward your father. It's natural for you to feel that, given what's happened. Feelings come and go- your attitudes toward the events and people that provoke them are your responsibility in the end. You can always acknowledge and experience the feeling but then move on from there to the actions that you need to take. I'm not there in the house, so I have no idea how things really are. I'm hoping though that the two of you may make some further steps toward mutual, age-appropriate respect, building on the foundation that you both do have. Being open and honest and caring and respectful of your dad as a human being will help you learn how to do that with other significant people in your life, too, a future spouse or child of your own - as well as its value between you and your father. Just my reaction, I think you have cause for being happy at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I feel bad and sad now. Why should you feel bad about telling a loved one about your thoughts? Does he feel bad to tell you about his? No. But I hope I don't have to go to church anymore. I've been trying to pull this one off for the better part of 40 years, even when I did believe. I wish you well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Broke Free Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Why should you feel bad about telling a loved one about your thoughts? Does he feel bad to tell you about his? No. Exactly! When faced with situations like this, we often feel compelled to tell the person that we respect their faith, but that we do not believe it our share it. Why should we do this? First; it’s not true. Second; it’s patronizing. Third; they don’t pay us the same favor in return. I think the best approach with family is to tell them that we “accept” their faith, not “respect” it. “Dad, I accept the fact that you are a Christian. I know that you believe that I have made a terrible mistake, but I also believe that your faith is misplaced. It hurts me to see how your faith has affected your life.” Christian family members need to know that we are not only ones who have to make sacrifices to maintain a relationship. By allowing them the privilege of being the only party whose beliefs is not put into question is unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewizard Posted August 23, 2005 Author Share Posted August 23, 2005 Exactly! When faced with situations like this, we often feel compelled to tell the person that we respect their faith, but that we do not believe it our share it. Why should we do this? First; it’s not true. Second; it’s patronizing. Third; they don’t pay us the same favor in return. I think the best approach with family is to tell them that we “accept” their faith, not “respect” it. “Dad, I accept the fact that you are a Christian. I know that you believe that I have made a terrible mistake, but I also believe that your faith is misplaced. It hurts me to see how your faith has affected your life.” Christian family members need to know that we are not only ones who have to make sacrifices to maintain a relationship. By allowing them the privilege of being the only party whose beliefs is not put into question is unfair. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My Dad's gone crazy, I may not be getting on here anymore cause if he finds out I lose my internet. He looked through my yahoo messenger and knows about my ties to Satanism and atheism people. He even told me to read a 19 page thing on how Christianity is true. He's lost his mind, he looked through my message archives too. He said if I get on any "bad" sites my internet is gone and if I talk to "bad" people I lose it too, This is bullshit and I'm being treated like a 5 year old, not a 16(17 in a week), I had to delete a lot of people, guys I'm going to remain atheist but this next year is going to be Hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Can't you use a library or school computer? Or go to an internet cafe? Just delete all your cookies and get a new e-mail account. And delete your cookies on a regular basis. And how does your dad have your password? You should change them on a regular basis anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewizard Posted August 23, 2005 Author Share Posted August 23, 2005 Can't you use a library or school computer? Or go to an internet cafe? Just delete all your cookies and get a new e-mail account. And delete your cookies on a regular basis. And how does your dad have your password? You should change them on a regular basis anyway. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I will, I gotta change my password and delete this page later on or it's gonna be Hell. He just isn't tolerant and said Satanic people are evil, I know cause they taught me in a police class. I can't change my password now or he'll find out but a new messenger account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Can you just use MIRC or something, and make it not automatically log you on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewizard Posted August 23, 2005 Author Share Posted August 23, 2005 Can you just use MIRC or something, and make it not automatically log you on? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What is MIRC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Internet Relay Chat This is where Ex-C has its chatroom, the same one you can get to from the javascript. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Man, that really sucks. When I read your original post I was thinking "Wow, for once an atheism coming-out story that ends peacefully rather than with insane fundy fury." Shame that's not the way its actually turning out after all. I'm afraid that I can't be very helpful advice-wise seeing as I haven't really figured out how to deal with slightly similiar problems with my parents. I can, however, pass on some tips about protecting your internet privacy from snoopy parents that you may or may not already know: 1. You can turn off the tracking of your product viewing history on Amazon.com. Go to the front page and click on a link called "The Page You Made.". After following this link look for a link on the left side of the screen that says "opt out here". Click on this, then on a button that says "Turn off". This will turn off tracking. Note that clearing your cookies may turn the tracking back on. 2. Avoid typeing or pasting addresses for "bad" websites in the address bar. Whenever possible type the addresses into google and use the search results to get to the site you want. This is because any website addresses that you type into the address bar will stay in the address bar's history (the little drop-down-menu that comes off of the bar when you start typeing addresses or when you click the little arrow beside the bar) for anyone else who uses the computer to see. These addresses can not be deleted by deleting the page from your browser history, they are only deleted when you clear your whole history. A clear history will look strange to snoopers, however, so history-clearing is not really the best idea. 3. Using proxy websites like http://www.freeonlineproxy.com/ can help bypass parental-control filters and allow viewing of websites without images or cookies. Using these proxies can also keep undesirable adresses from showing up in your history. 4. The free web browser Firefox can also allow browsing without images. This is useful for viewing sites like exchristian without a big tell-tale exchristian banner showing up at the top of the page for any nearby snooping parents to see. 5. Depending on what kind of person your dad is he might install a key-stroke logger on your computer. In case you don't know, a keystroke logger is a program that allows other people to see what you have typed on your computer. This means that they can find out your passwords for things. Free and shareware programs like ad-aware and easycleaner can help you identify if these programs are on your computer and get rid of them. If you are using Windows you can see what's running on your computer at any given time by pressing ctrl-alt-delete and clicking on the processes tab in the window that opens. That's all I can think of right now. Good luck with your father. EDIT- By the way you, should probably explain to your father that Satanism is not the same thing as Satan-worship if you haven't already. As it is now he might think that you're interested in something like sacrificing babies to Satan, so it's an important distinction to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caretaker Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Regarding the big Ex-Christian banner at the top of these pages, I have wondered about the implimentation of a IPB skin that excludes such a graphic. My dad already saw me with that banner at the top of the page, but luckily enough, he isn't a hardcore fundy and hasn't confronted me since then. Dave? Bruce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead_hobbit Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 yikes. yet again i am soo glad i am 6 hours away from any members of my family who would cause me problems when it comes to religion. Yes, he finally found out, probably cause he ordered books on amazon and the books I browsed where atheist, wicca, and Satanic books. he said we gotta talk, I told him I was a deist to make things easier and I didn't believe in Heaven, Hell, or the afterlife, I told him I believed in a Creator, not the Bible God., and about our Founding Fathers being deist, He's convinced his religion Christianity is true cause of his dreams about my dead granddad in Heaven with angels and he says he can feel the presence of God. I told him that's your beliefs. His Christian beliefs are if you're not a Christian you go to Hell and I debated with him on that. He said when I was younger the church people thought I'd become a preacher I was so dedicated with "God's power". He said if you don't change your beliefs you're nopt going to Heaven and I explained the hell concept came form Zoroastrianism. I knew he was sad about it but if he didn't want to know he shouldn't have asked me. He said I feel like a failure and I told him you're not a failure and hugged him, and said this wa sme, not you Dad. I feel bad and sad now. But I hope I don't have to go to church anymore. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demona- Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Oh, Bluewizard, I'm so sorry that this has happened to you. If you have books and other stuff that your dad would consider "bad" (including Harry Potter goodies!) make sure to hide them in a spot only you know about. Such as under a loose floorboard underneath your bedroom rug. Fundies have been known to burn books and other items they don't like. I saw it happen to a friend of mine. The fundie members of her college went into her dorm and destroyed her Forever Knight books and dragon memorabilia. Because vampires and dragons aren't of Jebus so they must be TEH EBIL!@!!!!1111 *sigh* Hang in there, buddy. And just think: only one more year till you graduate high school and can move out. Keep your eye on that light at the end of the tunnel and let it give you hope. Things won't be this way for much longer. No matter what, you will always have friends here. *hugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 When I was a teenager I had to get out but I'm glad I saved money and waited until I had the chance to support myself. cyberhugs, Bluewizard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Thanks Pariah, for that well written and usable internet anti-snoop info. This is an issue that comes up on a regular basis on this site, so I copied your post to a document for future use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Bluewizard, I'm with the others as to how wisely you responded at first and how hopeful it sounded, as well as being disappointed over how it seems to be going now. I'm sorry about all that. From what I've seen of your personality, I'm sure you have the inner strength to grit your teeth and survive under whatever conditions you have to until you can get out on your own. You'll be out on your own soon, regardless of the "forever" feeling your situation may have for you right now. You can handle it, and it will be over soon. Stick it out and do the best thing in every situation that comes up (as I know you will). Loren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Bluewizard, along with what Loren said, I want to add this for you to bear in mind: It may all feel like hell but this isn't eternity. Someday, this will be behind you and you'll be stronger for having gone through it. Embrace the now for what you can learn from this moment. I've been there, where you're at. I feel for you. -Reach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCrispyKFC Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I had a similar problem when I was your age. I came home one day and all my punk cds were broken in half. He said he felt the Lord tell him to look at my cds to understand why I was behaving well...like a teenager. 300 bucks worth of cds...all gone! It sucks, dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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