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Goodbye Jesus

Need to talk


Panther

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Hi guys!

 

I love you guys and this site. I do take breaks from boards sometimes, but I ALWAYS come back.

 

I am still somewhat newly deconverted. I thought maybe it would help me to open up about some issues I am having.

 

First off, I am SO RELIEVED and happy about my decision. None of my issues are about any of that. I am the type of person that prefers TRUTH...so finding out that Xtianity is a hoax was fine with me. I would much rather deal with truth than sugar coat everything.

 

I may not always LIKE truth, but reality IS what it IS, right? :grin:

 

Anyways, I was catching up on this site today and I noticed a few threads about how athiests feel and don't feel.

 

This is only MY viewpoint....but

 

I had always believed in a afterlife until my deconversion. Like everyone else, I went through the shock and numbness when I realized that heaven was just a fairy tale.

 

I have watched numerous science shows and have educated myself on evolution and such things recently so that I could really understand the life cycle and everything.

 

I GET it and everything....but....

 

The truth is really that we are just another evolved species.....nothing special about that.

We could evolve into something else before it's all over with.....into something completely different given some time. (unless we burn the earth out first..)

 

Dealing with the idea of death IS hard for me in a couple of ways...

 

1. I just can't wrap my mind around what our purpose really IS....honestly, it doesnt seem like much.

 

2. I know now that relgion is just a way to delude ourselves so that we DONT have to deal with death being just death. So, there is NOTHING out there that I can believe in again...unless it would be something proven. It could be a long time or never until SOMETHING is proven whether it be that we go to another dimension, anything.

 

3. I am feeling depression over my feelings....no purpose, life is just what it is NOW. I am trying my best to "just have fun" like I always have, but this is some serious stuff to deal with.

 

4. How long does this painful cycle take to get through? It's like a cycle of grief. I know that if I can just get through it, I can go on. But it's really tough.

 

 

I will add more as we go, but does anyone have any comforting thoughts or any thoughts at all to offer me on any of this?

:thanks:

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Also, wanted to add that I wish I didn't ponder all of this so much. There are many people out there that dont think of these issues much or at all.

 

I wish I could understand myself better and WHY this matters to me so much.

 

It's just that even when I do get it off my mind, something comes up that reminds me of it.....whether it be someone talking about heaven, a tv show, whatever.

 

It just makes me realize HOW many people out there have just accepted that there is afterlife.....it's kind of sad.

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1. I just can't wrap my mind around what our purpose really IS....honestly, it doesnt seem like much.

 

Objectively, we have no purpose, Panther. Each and everyone of us must find our own purpose for our existence.

 

2. I know now that relgion is just a way to delude ourselves so that we DONT have to deal with death being just death. So, there is NOTHING out there that I can believe in again...unless it would be something proven. It could be a long time or never until SOMETHING is proven whether it be that we go to another dimension, anything.

 

Hehe, one way or another we will have to deal with death...of course, when we do die it wont matter anymore. :)

 

3. I am feeling depression over my feelings....no purpose, life is just what it is NOW. I am trying my best to "just have fun" like I always have, but this is some serious stuff to deal with.

 

It is serious, though I've never had to deal with feelings of purposeless existence. You need to realise that this is YOUR life and nobody can give you purpose, not even what you called God. Purpose comes from within, and it takes reflection and mulling over. Look at all the things in life you enjoy, look at the universe you live in, and all the beautiful things about it (including yourself :wicked: ).

4. How long does this painful cycle take to get through? It's like a cycle of grief. I know that if I can just get through it, I can go on. But it's really tough.

I will add more as we go, but does anyone have any comforting thoughts or any thoughts at all to offer me on any of this?

 

It takes as long as you want it to take...it could end tomorrow, now, or in 40 years, because it all comes from you.

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Thanks my friend.....you are so right. (hugs, kisses)

 

Maybe this is a deeper issue than just the "religion" thing.....and I have to do some searching to find out the true cause of this sadness I am feeling right now.

 

Maybe I am attributing it to my deconversion, when really it is something else.

Thanks for your answers.....they have nudged me to do some more thinking on the whole thing.

 

I AM going through some other changes as well.....ah well, can't be happy every single day, right? LOL

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Thanks my friend.....you are so right. (hugs, kisses)

 

Maybe this is a deeper issue than just the "religion" thing.....and I have to do some searching to find out the true cause of this sadness I am feeling right now.

 

Maybe I am attributing it to my deconversion, when really it is something else.

Thanks for your answers.....they have nudged me to do some more thinking on the whole thing.

 

I AM going through some other changes as well.....ah well, can't be happy every single day, right? LOL

 

:D You know....BC, Canada is a very beautiful place for reflection and...uh...leisure. :HaHa:

 

It really boils down to you loving yourself for who you are.

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One of the things touched on in the Penn&Teller Bullshit! series was near-death experiences.

 

Turned out the people who black out during high gravity tests experience NDEs too. Obviously without actually being "near death".

 

Seems our advanced minds have the whole "fear of pending death" thing covered. A nice comforting hallucination that is not subject to time as we know it. The guys who blacked out were officially out for mere seconds, but they still had time for vivid and memorable hallucinations.

 

And also.

 

We really don't know what happens when we die. Religion being hooey, doesn't necessarily mean there really isn't anything afterwards. The real hooey is who-goes-where-and-why thing about the afterlife.

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Panther:

 

Regarding the "purpose of life" issue, I too felt very empty and depressed about the meaningless of life after deconversion. I think what snapped me out of it was realizing that the "purpose of life" was an impossibly vague and ultimately meaningless concept. We, as humans, will always have needs and wants for ourselves and the others around us. We will always be biologically and mentally driven towards fulfilling these needs and wants. Even Christians, who are supposedly called to a "higher purpose", live their lives basically the same way as anyone else: fulfilling their needs and wants. That's the way life is and the only way it can be.

 

Some questions I asked myself were: Would a feeling of purposefullness really change your life much? What do you want or expect from a higher purpose? Does life really need some kind of higher purpose than just living? Do the phrases "meaning of life" or "purpose of life" even really mean anything substantial? These questions helped me work through the problem. Maybe they can help you. At least I hope so.

 

In some ways I think that the idea of a purpose of life is a trap against apostates set by Christianity along the same lines as the fear of eternity in hell. Both concepts are repeatedly hammered in to Christians by other Christians, and both can stay with us even after we let Christianity go. Both, however, can also be subdued.

 

How long does this painful cycle take to get through? Well, I took a few months shy of a year to fully get rid of the meaningless feeling. I can't say how long it will take for you. Think of it like recovery from a virus; you can still feel residual symptoms of Christianity even after the core of your religious infection is gone.

 

Here's hoping you can recover fully sometime soon.

 

(BTW, sorry if I rambled on a bit or was unclear. My thoughts on these issues are still a little confused.)

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Turned out the people who black out during high gravity tests experience NDEs too. Obviously without actually being "near death".

 

Seems our advanced minds have the whole "fear of pending death" thing covered. A nice comforting hallucination that is not subject to time as we know it. The guys who blacked out were officially out for mere seconds, but they still had time for vivid and memorable hallucinations.

Interestingly enough, when I was hit by a car in '02 (the driver was on a cellphone) while crossing the street on my bicycle, I too blacked out. You would think that, being that I could've died and was unconscious for some time, I would've seen "something". But all I saw was blackness.

 

I saw nothing until I actually opened my eyes. And on a rainy day, I thought I saw a bright light directly behind the EMTs. Turns out that was due to the concussion I had.

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This won't address the 'purpose of life issue'. The preceding posts have done that admirably. But I like what Wittgenstein says about death and eternal life (I happened to see this in a book once):

 

"Death is not an event in life: we do not live to experience death. If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present. "

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*Sends hugs*

 

I already knew my purpose in life was writing, but I'd found that long before I deconverted. Perhaps a similar hobby might help, something where you can be creative and get your feelings out? Keeping a journal might help too.

 

I don't believe anyone's existence is purposeless (except perhaps Osama bin Laden's) -- maybe you could try volunteering or something? At least, you might get to make some new friends.

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Panther,

 

I've pondered this one a lot. I had sort of a different deconversion experience in that I quit going to church for a few years, then I believed in Preterism (which holds that all prophecies were fulfilled in 70AD) so I had a couple of years to adjust to NOT expecting Jesus to return, and THEN, just about 6 months ago, I started the deconversion process. After all the other steps, it wasn't so bad for me. But the whole time I've missed that 'sense of purpose.

 

As the family genealogist I've been concerned with collecting, scanning and publishing all of my family info in order to leave a legacy to my children and my many distant relatives. But I don't want to be just a name, I want my name on the family tree to link to hundreds of pages of details about my life. I would die for that level of info about my own ancestors, so I know one of my descendants somewhere will feel the same.

 

I've also contemplated an attempt to live eternally 'virtually' by somehow endowing my web journals and genealogy info to always have a place in cyberspace, whatever that may entail in the future. I'm also an aspiring writer and hope to add something significant in that realm to my legacy. I am inspired in all of this by my recent reading of Cosmos by Carl Sagan. He mentions the area of the Aegean Sea where the foundations of Astronomy, Math and Geometry were developed and recorded. Those men's works are quoted to this day some 4000 years after their deaths. They still live! They saw shadows on the ground and deduced the circumference of the earth! Amazing.

 

Now obviously you or I may never achieve that level of reknown in science or math or politics, but hopefully I've sparked some hope on your part. Focus on you and your family first, then look at legacy, and volunteer work. I'm sure you'll hit your stride soon.

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I am very touched by all of you guy's responses....thank you VERY much. ((HUGS))

 

It helps just to talk about it at least.

 

I do realize, intellectually, that with a true deconversion, something like this was bound to happen emotionally.

I mean, during Xtianity, thinking about heaven was such an emotional "rush" that it only makes sense that in letting that go, it would be similar to coming down off the rollercoaster.

Know what I mean?

 

I've said this time and time again, but it bears repeating. This web site is helping SOOO many people. Just the simple contact with others that have the same line of thinking does wonders.

Out in the world, I don't always run into the free thinkers. Sometimes I get lucky and sometimes not, LOL.

 

But yeah, the posts you guys wrote have given me more to think about.

 

Like I mentioned, I'm going through a couple other changes right now and just recovered medically from a blood clot. (that was a surprise! :Doh: )

So...it could be that I am in a more "reflective" period of time in my life right now.

 

Thanks bunches!

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Also, wanted to add that I wish I didn't ponder all of this so much. There are many people out there that dont think of these issues much or at all.

 

I wish I could understand myself better and WHY this matters to me so much.

 

It's just that even when I do get it off my mind, something comes up that reminds me of it.....whether it be someone talking about heaven, a tv show, whatever.

 

It just makes me realize HOW many people out there have just accepted that there is afterlife.....it's kind of sad.

 

Hi Panther,

 

I went through, and probably still am going through to various degrees exactly what you describe here. These are tough issues and questions. I'm still trying to find my purpose or wrap my mind around the lack thereof in a world that seems to engender nihilism as an ultimate truth. I think you nailed it when you brought up the point that it is a grieving process. The process eventually winds itself down and it becomes easier to live with these ideas even if you don't every fully embrace them. That's probably where I'm at now. I do find myself constantly trying to redefine morality and what is acceptable and what cannot ever be acceptable to me on a personal basis. I'm always challenging my old beliefs to determine if they are worth keeping. Some I've kept and others are morphing into something else. I'm trying to live every day and just be happy, let death and nothingness be damned; again, with varying degrees of success.

 

The fact that you wish you could be more shallow is very understandable. I've felt that way in the past and have even been jealous of others who are able to be a bit more care free and mindless about the world around them and the meaning of higher things. Ultimately though I prefer to feel and think on a deeper level and am glad that this is my personality type. Sure I suffer more frustration at times and have more unanswered questions but I still think it's much better than going through life unaware and numb to all that is outside my own little ordered world. Had you been a bit more shallow you would not likely have educated yourself, you would not likely have ever questioned your faith, you would not likely be who you are as a person. I'm sure you've found joy and satisfaction in your education and in your deeper thoughts that a more shallow person will never know. So what if they will never miss these thoughts? You know them and they are good.

 

Perhaps I'm projecting too much of my own thoughts and experience onto you. I don't know. What you write feels very familiar to my own journey though.

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Panther,

 

I used to have thoughts about that even after my deconversion. I had a brief period of belief in past lives and reincarnation but I have changed on that since then.

 

I don't believe shit happens to us after death except that our loved ones either bury us in a box six feet below the surface or have us burned and placed on the mantle and that comforts me. I will return to be with that which I came from and abused so that I may give back to the planet that honored me with x amount of a lifetime.

 

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I am not afraid of death so much as I will be happy to see the Reaper come and take me out of this sometimes often wretched world of Happiness and also Fucking Bullshit. I have a happy life and yet, I feel like I am far older than the almost 25 years I have lived on this Earth. I am so jaded to the conditions of this world that I often feel sorry for humanity that it is going to take an abomination so great to pull the rest of the world together, that I will be happy to see the end of my life.

 

But until that day comes, I am going to do whatever the fuck I see fit to occupy that time and to keep my mind occupied so that I have fun and am not killed by the boredom of waiting.

 

Grim yes, but that is how I feel. And I don't need a bunch of Fire and Brimstone bullshit to know that I will get a nice long shitload period of Peace and Quiet when this is all over.

 

_Brutal Brian

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