Is Any Of This True?

[Guest]

Got this from a co-worker today. She is a xtian, but a liberal, live and let live person. However, this email reaks of xtian lies and half-truths.

 

I doubt its authenticity for 2 reasons. 1) It seems outrageous to remove the holocaust from textbooks just because Muslims deny it. And 2) I seriously doubt that more xtians were killed in the holocaust than Jews. In fact a quick google search turned up 3 million, not 10 million xtians dead from the holocaust. If you really look at it, the Jews are the second to last, behind the Russians. Not to mention that this seems just like what my father used to send to me...xtian propaganda.

 

Anyway, just thought I'd ask for opinions here.

 

 

It is a matter of history that when the Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces, General Dwight Eisenhower, found the victims of the death camps he ordered all possible photographs to be taken, and for the German people from surrounding villages to be ushered through the camps and even made to bury the dead.

 

He did this because he said in words to this effect:

 

'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'

 

This week, the UK debated whether to remove The Holocaust from its school curriculum because it 'offends' the Muslim population which claims it never occurred. It is not removed as yet.. However, this is a frightening portent of the fear that is gripping the world and how easily each country is giving into it.

 

It is now more than 60 years after the Second World War in Europe ended. This e-mail is being sent as a memorial chain, in memory of the,6 million Jews, 20 million Russians, 10 million Christians, and 1,900 Catholic priests

 

Who were 'murdered, raped, burned, starved, beat, experimented on and humiliated' while the German people looked the other way!

 

Now, more than ever, with Iran , among others, claiming the Holocaust to be 'a myth,' it is imperative to make sure the world never forgets.

 

 

This e-mail is intended to reach 400 million people! Be a link in the memorial chain and help distribute this around the world.

 

How many years will it be before the attack on the World Trade Center .

 

'NEVER HAPPENED'

 

.because it offends some Muslim in the U.S. ???

 

 

Do not just delete this message; it will take only a minute to pass this along.

FREEDOM ISN'T FREE...SOMEONE HAD TO PAY FOR IT

If you can read this...thank a teacher.

If you can read this in English.....thank a veteran.

God Bless America !

 

We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.

- Sir Winston Churchill

 

[Guest Davka]

The part about Eisenhower ordering people from the local villages to "tour" the death camps is something I've heard before - I think it might be true.

 

But the part about schools in the UK no longer teaching the Holocaust?

 

Snopes says it's crap-ola.

[dagnarus]

I did a quick google search and came up with this from the dailymail.uk. The article suggests that some teachers are dropping teaching the holocaust for fear of offending Muslim students. From the article it seems to be more to do with teachers not wanting to deal with the stress of challenging a children's indoctrination in the classroom and having them blow up, than about government policy or anything else. Later on in the article it went on to state that they were having similar problems with teaching certain Christians about the current Arab Israeli conflict.

 

A third school found itself 'strongly challenged by some Christian parents for their treatment of the Arab-Israeli conflict-and the history of the state of Israel that did not accord with the teachings of their denomination'.

 

The report concluded: "In particular settings, teachers of history are unwilling to challenge highly contentious or charged versions of history in which pupils are steeped at home, in their community or in a place of worship."

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-445979/Teachers-drop-Holocaust-avoid-offending-Muslims.html#ixzz0SHIPdEVY

 

So yes the email does seem to have a grain of truth. It does seem that religious extremist are effectively muzzling history which they don't like by acting like complete jack-asses when they are contradicted.

[dagnarus]

The part about Eisenhower ordering people from the local villages to "tour" the death camps is something I've heard before - I think it might be true.

 

But the part about schools in the UK no longer teaching the Holocaust?

 

Snopes says it's crap-ola.

 

Hmmm, I wonder how much egg that put on my face?

[Guest Davka]

The part about Eisenhower ordering people from the local villages to "tour" the death camps is something I've heard before - I think it might be true.

 

But the part about schools in the UK no longer teaching the Holocaust?

 

Snopes says it's crap-ola.

 

Hmmm, I wonder how much egg that put on my face?

Hey, it's a cheap lesson: when it comes to chain emails, snopes first, google later.

[Shyone]

The part about Eisenhower ordering people from the local villages to "tour" the death camps is something I've heard before - I think it might be true.

 

But the part about schools in the UK no longer teaching the Holocaust?

 

Snopes says it's crap-ola.

Although they clearly labeled it as "FALSE", it was based on a report published in the Guardian regarding two schools in one district that in fact had halted teaching the Holocaust (which was optional at the time). It was the exaggeration that was false, not that it hasn't happened as described. IOW, it was not all schools in the UK; just a couple.

[Guest Davka]

The part about Eisenhower ordering people from the local villages to "tour" the death camps is something I've heard before - I think it might be true.

 

But the part about schools in the UK no longer teaching the Holocaust?

 

Snopes says it's crap-ola.

Although they clearly labeled it as "FALSE", it was based on a report published in the Guardian regarding two schools in one district that in fact had halted teaching the Holocaust (which was optional at the time). It was the exaggeration that was false, not that it hasn't happened as described. IOW, it was not all schools in the UK; just a couple.

That and the fact that it's been forwarded for the past 2 years as if it were breaking news.

 

There's usually a grain of truth behind urban legends. That's what makes them so compelling.

[Thurisaz]

The part about Eisenhower ordering people from the local villages to "tour" the death camps is something I've heard before - I think it might be true.

 

Make that Patton instead of Ike and for all I know it's a fact - at least for one of the camps (Dachau? Not sure).

 

As for the rest...

 

1. the "Tommies" sure do some strange things but kicking the Shoah out of the classrooms... nah. Before I accept that as true I will demand damn good evidence.

 

2. How many Christians were killed? Not sure. No one normally cares about that number in contrast to the killed Jews. However, if we count everyone who got killed in WW2 who happened to be a christian, no matter where and why, I wouldn't be surprised of the total was higher than the infamous 6 million. If we examine the death camps the whole thing may well look different.

[Guest]

 

2. How many Christians were killed? Not sure. No one normally cares about that number in contrast to the killed Jews. However, if we count everyone who got killed in WW2 who happened to be a christian, no matter where and why, I wouldn't be surprised of the total was higher than the infamous 6 million. If we examine the death camps the whole thing may well look different.

 

That's what really set off my bullshit alarm, really. I guess you have a point there about counting everybody who dies, but the way they listed everything in that email seemed to imply to me that the Jews didn't really bear the worst of the Holocaust, it was the xtians. And that pissed me off.

 

I hadn't gotten shit like this since my dad stopped emailing me altogether (he'd rather cut off electronic content than stop sending me propaganda). This actually may have come from my co-worker's husband, he's been working this show with me, and although we have very similar politics, he seems to have a kneejerk reaction to things and a heavy dose of confirmation bias (they're xtians, no surprise there). In fact, a few weeks ago I mentioned Snopes and neither of them new what it was.

 

I forwarded them the Snopes article. Thanks everyone!

[Neon Genesis]

Why do people think emailing chain letters to all their friends who already agree with them makes a difference in the world anyway?

[Vixentrox]

I suppose if you count it out and claim every member of the Allied and Axis civil populations + military deaths (axis + allied) was Christian you might come up with 10 million Christian casualties, rapes, whatever. That would hardly represent what the email says though.

[ContraBardus]

The 101st made the locals clean up the mess and bury the dead in the one they found. Germans were made to tour the death camps and get an eyeful of what the Third Reich had been doing in at least two places Dachau and another near Weimar.

 

It came up in Band of Brothers, and while I know that's an HBO series, it was verified as accurate by the surviving members of the 101st in the documentary and commentary.

 

General George S. Patton wrote in his autobiography that the number of Weimar citizens brought to the camp was 1,500, although other accounts say it was 2,000. The German civilians had to march five miles up a steep hill, escorted by armed American soldiers. It took two days for the Weimar residents to file through the camp.

 

On top of that, there's pictures of it.

 

 

 

 

 

I'll even do one better and post a video. A word of warning, it's quite graphic. Not for the faint of heart or squeamish.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fykwrkVHfGw&NR=1

 

So, yeah. It's true, they did make them have a good look at it.

[Guest I Love Dog]

Got this from a co-worker today. She is a xtian, but a liberal, live and let live person. However, this email reaks of xtian lies and half-truths.

 

I doubt its authenticity for 2 reasons. 1) It seems outrageous to remove the holocaust from textbooks just because Muslims deny it. And 2) I seriously doubt that more xtians were killed in the holocaust than Jews. In fact a quick google search turned up 3 million, not 10 million xtians dead from the holocaust. If you really look at it, the Jews are the second to last, behind the Russians. Not to mention that this seems just like what my father used to send to me...xtian propaganda.

 

Anyway, just thought I'd ask for opinions here.

 

 

It is a matter of history that when the Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces, General Dwight Eisenhower, found the victims of the death camps he ordered all possible photographs to be taken, and for the German people from surrounding villages to be ushered through the camps and even made to bury the dead.

 

He did this because he said in words to this effect:

 

'Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened'

 

This week, the UK debated whether to remove The Holocaust from its school curriculum because it 'offends' the Muslim population which claims it never occurred. It is not removed as yet.. However, this is a frightening portent of the fear that is gripping the world and how easily each country is giving into it.

 

It is now more than 60 years after the Second World War in Europe ended. This e-mail is being sent as a memorial chain, in memory of the,6 million Jews, 20 million Russians, 10 million Christians, and 1,900 Catholic priests

 

Who were 'murdered, raped, burned, starved, beat, experimented on and humiliated' while the German people looked the other way!

 

Now, more than ever, with Iran , among others, claiming the Holocaust to be 'a myth,' it is imperative to make sure the world never forgets.

 

 

This e-mail is intended to reach 400 million people! Be a link in the memorial chain and help distribute this around the world.

 

How many years will it be before the attack on the World Trade Center .

 

'NEVER HAPPENED'

 

.because it offends some Muslim in the U.S. ???

 

 

Do not just delete this message; it will take only a minute to pass this along.

FREEDOM ISN'T FREE...SOMEONE HAD TO PAY FOR IT

If you can read this...thank a teacher.

If you can read this in English.....thank a veteran.

God Bless America !

 

We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.

- Sir Winston Churchill

 

 

Hey! About 11 million people died because of the Christian Adolph Hitler. He was a fundamentalist Christian, wanting to start his own cult and took the OT as being the work of god and exterminated not only the Jews, but people with any type of handicap, homosexuals, bisexuals, gypsies, anyone who wasn't blonde-haired. blue eyed Arian and perfect in every way. Where was the Christian god in all of this? Sitting on the Pope's shoulder saying, "Yes, my son, this is god's will".

 

Dog bless America, long live Australia!

[Thurisaz]

Hey! About 11 million people died because of the Christian Adolph Hitler. He was a fundamentalist Christian

 

Meh. That can be argued either way. Depending on what quotes et al you dig out you can prove that the Austrian moustache was a jebus cultist, an atheist, a pagan. And really, as I said several times in here already , it doesn't matter.

 

The Austrian moustache didn't kill all the victims with its own hands, and the millions of people who willingly became its executioners were... you know what. Only a morontheist (with its standard low-end double-digit IQ) can think there's nothing wrong with absolute obedience to someone even if all the orders coming from that someone spit in the face of all ethics, justice and whathaveyou. That's how morontheism works - thou must pick a Führer, literally, and then stop thinking for yourself and obey it unquestioningly until death. Over here in Germany we call that "Kadavergehorsam", and this word is one of the major symbols of nazi insanity today.

 

Or rather it was until recently... I wonder how far the supporters of a new police state will be willing to go

[RankStranger]

I think it's funny how Russians and Catholic priests are counted separately from "Christians".

[Guest Science!]

Christians were killed by the Germans. They just weren't killed because they were Christians. It was because they were Polish, or Russian, or whoever else it was fashionable to hate at the time.

As the above poster said, it's funny how the writer for this e-mail seperated the Russians and the Catholics from the Christians.

 

Now, if the Germans had started killing Christians, they might have run into a few problems. Google up the phrase "Gott mit uns".

[BlueGiant]

20 million Russians...wasn't that the casualty count of the Soviet military during WWII?

[Guest Davka]

20 million Russians...wasn't that the casualty count of the Soviet military during WWII?

No, that was the Soviet casualty count under Stalin. He killed far more people than Hitler did, but got a "pass" because it wasn't out of prejudice or racism, it was out of power-grubbing and paranoia.

 

For the record, the Nazi concentration camps killed around 10 million people in all. 6 million were Jews. The rest were primarily Roma ("Gypsies"), homosexuals, and the "unfit," i.e. mentally or physically handicapped. Christians who refused to go along with Nazism were sent to work camps, not extermination camps. Of course, a lot of people died of malnutrition and overwork in those camps too.

[Vomit Comet]

A lot of Nazi Ideology, especially early on, was informed by Bavarian Catholicism. To this day, if I'm not mistaken, Bavaria is the closest thing Germany has to a Bible Belt. In particular, it was Pope (???)'s famous sermon in the 1920s that criticized modernity and modern technology. The early Nazis were basically going on nature hikes through Bavaria and singing old folk songs.

 

The Nazis were always a weird mix of Heroic Romanticism and Modernism. On the one hand you had Blood and Soil, opera singers with huge tits and winged helmets, the sharp uniforms and the massive rallies, etc. etc. On the other hand, the death camps were inspired in part by Henry Ford's assembly line, and like Fascist Italy they were obsessed with the power of technology and bureaucratic organization.

[Thurisaz]

A lot of Nazi Ideology, especially early on, was informed by Bavarian Catholicism. To this day, if I'm not mistaken, Bavaria is the closest thing Germany has to a Bible Belt.

 

You are not mistaken. Bavaria is the most staunchly conservative Federal country over here. Until recently they had not only their inofficial state church (catholicism) but even their inofficial one-party "democracy" (With the CSU - "christian-socialist union" - reaping 50+x % in their regional elections). They even tend to refer to their Federal country as not a Federal country but a "Freistaat" (free state).

 

The Nazis were always a weird mix of Heroic Romanticism and Modernism. On the one hand you had Blood and Soil, opera singers with huge tits and winged helmets, the sharp uniforms and the massive rallies, etc. etc. On the other hand, the death camps were inspired in part by Henry Ford's assembly line, and like Fascist Italy they were obsessed with the power of technology and bureaucratic organization.

 

Yup.

As it was stated in a nice book I have here, "the difference between the marxists and nazis was basically that the marxists at least had an official, clearly-defined ideology to stand upon - even though they didn't exactly always do so. The nazis were rightards today, leftists tomorrow, whatever suited their lust for power best at any given moment". They basically embraced everything, no matter how incompatible. I mean, hey, the very term "national socialism"... one can just as well combine "black white" into one term.

[Ro-bear]

Christians like to see themselves as victims; I think they feel it sanctifies them somehow. Christianity is a faith that puts emphasis on martyrdom. Sound familiar?

[Guest Davka]

A lot of Nazi Ideology, especially early on, was informed by Bavarian Catholicism. To this day, if I'm not mistaken, Bavaria is the closest thing Germany has to a Bible Belt.

 

Really? Cool, I learned something new.

 

Do you know any more about how Bavarian Catholicism influenced Nazism? I know Hitler was into a mish-mash of oddball beliefs, but I also know that his personal beliefs were not the mainstream in the Nazi party. I'd be curious to learn more.

[Cousin Ricky]

My reaction to this sort of e-mail:

 

A chain letter is a chain letter is a chain letter.

I therefore treat it as such.

 

(Snopes may have some edifying comment, but that is a secondary matter.)

[OpheliaGinger]

My reaction to this sort of e-mail:

 

A chain letter is a chain letter is a chain letter.

I therefore treat it as such.

 

(Snopes may have some edifying comment, but that is a secondary matter.)

 

 

I can pretty much identify a chain letter without opening it, so they immediately go into the special file labeled "trash". The same applies to any religious emails.