qec Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 We both obviously had experiences where we were hurt by Christians and by ones we trusted, unless you think that going through a divorce is no big deal, so I "know" from experience too. And the outcome of my experience, my conclusions, were different from yours. (And I assume that when you made the analogy of a woman who'd been raped, you were just talking out your ass, so I'm one up on that one from you). So you might want to consider that you are not the only person in the world who's gone through traumatic experiences before you start acting like you're the only one who can make valid conclusions from experience. Sorry, what was that you said about not taking too well to anecdotes? Oh snap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ephymeris Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 When I left my church, I cleanly cut ties with most the other church members. However, I had many close, long term friends at that church that I also went to school with and hung out with outside of church that I'm still in close contact with today. I'm probably at the far end of the spectrum on my friends as far as apostasy but they are all at varying degrees of belief with some still heavily involved in church, some that are disenchanted with church but believe in a god, and a few that are agnostic. Their continuing level of involvement in religion hasn't had a bearing in our friendship. I would't advocate cutting ties with people you really like just because they still go to church. You have the right to maintain friendships with people you like and vice versa. Everyone's an adult, everyone can walk away at anytime. If you like your pastor (and playing "Settlers" with him is definately a sign of deep connection!) there's no reason to ditch him until the friendship makes you uncomfortable. On the subject of free lunches, if he's really your friend, you may want to just go dutch to these meetings. It also keeps the relationship on an even keel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagan Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 Thanks for your comments. I was a bit wary, and I know full well I'm probably a project to him. But I'm thinking this will be a good opportunity for me to see what a seminary-trained, evangelical pastor has to say about the arguments against Christianity and God which brought me to reject them. The second it starts getting uncomfortable, I'm gone. I don't owe him or anyone at my church anything. I don't think there would be any collateral damage to my family. Whatever he may be, he's definitely an honourable guy. But again, anything that sets off my heebie jeebie alarm, I'm gone. I really appreciate those of you who shared parts of your stories. I guess leaving the faith can be ugly, it can be smooth, it can burn bridges, it can leave them intact, but it's always painful. Personally I don't leaving the church as an abusive relationship, but my relationship with God definitely had aspects of an abusive father. At least, one who makes lots of promises he never fulfills, and threatens to beat you to death if you don't do the strange things he asks, but he says he really loves you even though he also occasionally tells you you're a worthless piece of crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 The pastor has only one thing in mind; to get you to believe/donate money again. Just know that. If he was sure you'd never come back to the church, he would never bother with you again. I know it is hard to believe, but even pastors are complex people rather than cardboard cutouts. My best friend is a Christian. Sometimes I worry that I might de-convert him, because then I won't have anyone to argue religion in person with. I'd love to have a pastor for a friend and the harder he tried to re-convert me the better I'd like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I don't think there would be any collateral damage to my family. I get the impression that you are aware and correctly perceive the situation. So if you are inclined to spend time with him, enjoy yourself. Whatever he may be, he's definitely an honourable guy. While most pastors are apologists, you may have found one that actually thinks. If he has covert motives, they may not be aimed at converting you but at finding out what it is like to leave the fold. Perhap then, under the guise of spending money on proseletyzing, he is paying for counselling. Lunch = fee for service. Enjoy! I'm looking forward to hearing about this exchange in a few months. Mongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahgrace Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 The pastor has only one thing in mind; to get you to believe/donate money again. Just know that. If he was sure you'd never come back to the church, he would never bother with you again. I know it is hard to believe, but even pastors are complex people rather than cardboard cutouts. My best friend is a Christian. Sometimes I worry that I might de-convert him, because then I won't have anyone to argue religion in person with. I'd love to have a pastor for a friend and the harder he tried to re-convert me the better I'd like it. Thanks for posting this, Chef. Many of my closest friends are Christians that I met back when I was at Bible college. They saw me through some really hard times, and walked with me all the way through my deconversion, and are still with me today. We don't talk about religion much, which is fine by me, because really, I don't care what other people believe so long as they are good people. My Christian friends respect me, share their lives with me, and I respect and love them each deeply, and trust them with my life. Not all Christians are deceitful assholes, although I know it seems like most of them are because the assholes tend to shout the loudest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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