My dad and me got in a religion argument

[bluewizard]

Yes, we did, I told him homosexuality was a gene and he said it's still a sin. I told him the biblical absurdities and how most scientists are atheists and he said, well, the scientists will go to Hell then. He hates my ties to wicca and Satanism and claims he knows the holy spirit has spoke to me and him. I told him thats a mental mind game. i will never convince him otherwise, he sees dreams of my dead grandfather in Heaven as proof of his religion being true and believes the holy spirit speaks to people, o told him emotions dont rprove a thing, What will I do with my ignorant Dad? He believes I'm going to Hell for using my logic and reason and claims Satan has got me in the wrong side. He also thinks my values will get me in trouble.

[Guest uberkuh]

Best wishes. That is all I can think to say that makes any sense. Best wishes.

[bluewizard]

He also said excorcisms were real and demons were too. lol

[white_raven23]

Until you come of age there's not much you can really do. Your father sees you as a child. He will NEVER stop seeing you as a child, even when you're 40.

 

As long as you are still under his roof, the wisest course is avoiding religious discussion entirely. An argument can only take place when you both participate. The argument can't happen if you refuse to discuss it. This is a lot harder than it sounds, believe me. He will try to "make" you talk to him about this. DON'T. Because if you give an inch, he'll take a mile.

 

Whenever he brings up religion. LOOK HIM IN THE EYE, and politely say "Dad, I really don't want to discuss this." ONCE.

 

After that, consider yourself a mute if he continues. Just because he asks stuff, and even if you have an answer, don't.

 

Every time he brings up religion, give him the sentence. If he talks religion nonstop. Give the sentence once a day. Then go mute as long as the discussion is religion. But ONLY religion.

 

Example:

 

Dad: "Son I'd like to discuss the state of your soul, I'm worried for you."

You: "Dad, I really don't want to discuss this."

Dad: "Well I really think we should"

You: "....."

Dad:"You do know you are going to hell, right?"

You: "...."

Dad: "Jesus died for you, you should be grateful for his loving sacrifice."

You:"...."

Dad:"Son?"

You: "Yes?"

Dad: "You hear me don't you?"

You: "...." *at this point when he speaks, look right at him so he knows you aren't deaf, be sure to look at him when he speaks, you are making a point of not saying anything*

You: "Hey dad. there's a game on after dinner want to watch?" (note: be willing to dicuss and participate in other activites with your dad, you are rejecting the religion NOT your father)

Dad: *sigh* "Would you pass the peas?"

You: "Sure."

 

Eventually if you stick to this, he won't bug you about the religion. Don't abuse this method. Remember, the goal is to reject the religion, not your family. Make sure this method only applies to ONE thing, the religion. If you use it in other aspects of your life, your dad will just think you are being rebellious in general. You won't be making a specific point with your silence anymore.

 

Best of luck, and take care.

[Pariah]

white_raven23:

Your advice seems like good advice but, for the sake of clarification, do you think your avoidance/ignoring approach should be stretched to include more agressive forms of religious invasion (eg. forced church going, revocation of privileges like internet, isolation, destruction of property, etc.) or just be used for avoiding arguements? Because it seems to me that ignoring verbal religion-pushing will lead bluewizards's father to move on to these more agressive forms.

 

bluewizard:

 

I really feel for your situation. Did you read the advice/comments of me and others in your other thread?

 

If you decide to take white_raven23's approach (which seems like a good idea to me), you should probably, as I said in the other thread, explain to your father that your interest in LaVeyan Satanism (trust in self, Satan as a figurehead not a deity, magick) is not the same thing as interest in Satan-worship (sacrificing people to the Devil, etc.) before you begin ignoring his religious arguement-prompting.

 

 

By the way, how is your relationship with the rest of your family?

[bluewizard]

white_raven23:

Your advice seems like good advice but, for the sake of clarification, do you think your avoidance/ignoring approach should be stretched to include more agressive forms of religious invasion (eg. forced church going, revocation of privileges like internet, isolation, destruction of property, etc.) or just be used for avoiding arguements? Because it seems to me that ignoring verbal religion-pushing will lead bluewizards's father to move on to these more agressive forms.

 

bluewizard:

 

I really feel for your situation. Did you read the advice/comments of me and others in your other thread?

 

If you decide to take white_raven23's approach (which seems like a good idea to me), you should probably, as I said in the other thread, explain to your father that your interest in LaVeyan Satanism (trust in self, Satan as a figurehead, magick) is not the same thing as interest in Satan-worship (sacrificing people to the Devil, etc.) before you begin ignoring his religious arguement-prompting.

By the way, how is your relationship with the rest of your family?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My mom knows from my Dad but me and her are cool, I like her better than my Dad, my sister doesn't care as she's a hypocritical Christian. I think I'll explain Satanism to my Dad.

[Pariah]

I think I'll explain Satanism to my Dad.

 

Okay, good. Maybe I should add, though, that if you do try to talk to him about that you should do it in a non-arguementative way. The last thing you want to do right now is start more fighting. As an example, you could say something like:

"Dad, I don't want to start another fight or arguement, I just feel that I should clear something up. Last week (or whenever) you found out about my interests in books about atheism, wicca, and satanism. I can see why you're upset about this, even if i don't agree with you, but I think you should know that the satanism that I've been researching/interested in has nothing really to do with the Satan of the Bible. It's also not about sacrificing people to the Devil or worshipping demons or anything like that. I just thought I should tell you this so you don't think that I've done a complete 180 from Christianity and become some kind of murderous Satan worshipper baby-sacrificer. That's all I wanted to say, bye."

Then you would leave the room before he could object or prod you in to an arguement.

[white_raven23]

white_raven23:

Your advice seems like good advice but, for the sake of clarification, do you think your avoidance/ignoring approach should be stretched to include more agressive forms of religious invasion (eg. forced church going, revocation of privileges like internet, isolation, destruction of property, etc.) or just be used for avoiding arguements? Because it seems to me that ignoring verbal religion-pushing will lead bluewizards's father to move on to these more agressive forms.

Very true, there is that risk. BUT. Reverse it and look at it this way. How far would a Christian go to defend and justify their faith?

Christians once died to defend their belief.

 

If Bluewizard's dad is going to persecute him with those harsher forms of "christian love" then Bluewizard has to be ready to be as dedicated as any christian would be, about his own beliefs. Yes, he may loose privilages. But I don't think being grounded, and being crucified (unlikely in this case) fall into the same persecution catagory.

[Dhampir]

when I was living at home, any time religion came up (such as when I accidently left a book containing the word Atheism in the bathroom), I'd acquiese to the best of my ability to whatever stupidity arose from it. Now though, I no longer live at home and since then the subject hasn't come up, though I personally am itching to discuss it with them, because they know they can't hang.

[dead_hobbit]

If you really wanted to cause troubles with him, you could point out that biblically you aren't supposed to be messin with ghosts and stuff. If he's seeing ghosts and talking back to them, he could be getting in trouble...

[SilentLoner]

I know the feeling, bluewizard. Im in a similar situation, except with my mom. (Fortunately she only knows my athiest beliefs, not my pagan ones).

My dad doesnt care, but he's stuck in an even worse 70-ish cult. My parents ended up divorced over it last year. My mom now seems to enjoy provoking me, trying to get me to admit I dont know soemthing in the evolutionary theory so she can insert god into that gap.

 

I have a short fuse, so does my mom, so we have a repeating pattern:

bring it up-argue-dont talk for certain period of time-bring it up-argue-dont talk for certain period of time- and continues.

 

Ive tried white_raven23's approach before, but unfortunately it only worked once. I reccomend you try getting off topic. whenever my mom tries to bring it up, I pretend to listen for a while then manage to divert her attention to another subject.

[nightflight]

lol, there is no way you are going to make "Satanism" palatible to your dad!

[Amethyst]

Can you lie and tell him you were just joking about the Satanism thing and you are really just an atheist? Or say that you were curious about it but changed your mind?

[bluewizard]

Can you lie and tell him you were just joking about the Satanism thing and you are really just an atheist?  Or say that you were curious about it but changed your mind?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He knows I was seriuos about Satanism, I'm a member of an online chapel and talked about becoming a Satanic priest with the ULC. I'll explain Satanism if he asks me.

[been borg again]

blue wizard,

sorry to burst your bubble,but think about it.

it is completely and totaly impossible to ever convince your dad of anything positive about satanism. You might as well try and violate the law of gravity.. its never going to happen, ever.

the only hope you will ever have is 20 years down the road and you have lived a good moral healthy sucsessful life... only then will you ever get the potential of gaining your fathers respect.

I would instead focus on what you need to do to make your life less hellish until your out of the house.

[All Gods Fail]

Want the advice of a newbie? As a recovering alkie, I learned that dealing with family members who were part of the problem is best accomplished by being firm but loving. Don't let them drag you back into old patterns with their usual bullshit. And I think we all know xtianity is just another drug, as addictive and destructive as heroin.

 

Instead, just do what you know is right and keep loving them, knowing that (and this is the hard part) you will never, ever change them.

 

When dad goes off on one of his tirades, just let him vent. White Raven has given you some good advice here! Give him some respect about his beliefs (he's wrong, but he's entitled to his beliefs), but be firm about your beliefs. Remember arguing is a dead-end, a waste of time and energy. Faith has a remarkable power to shield the believer from reason.

 

Also, I didn't catch your age, but I guess you're still a minor. You have a long life ahead of you (crosses fingers), and you'll have to deal with your family for most of it. The main thing is, don't let their fanaticism determine your behavior.