Brother Jeff Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 I originally wrote this post for my glorious site, but the Spook of Kryasst who is also somehow magically Him magically inspired me to post it here as well. Glory! From http://religionisbullshit.org/2005/08/27/w...thomas-herrion/: The return of football season every year is always a joyous time for me. Football is, after all, my religion! Glory! A few years ago, the beginning of the football season was marred by the tragic death of Brother Korey Stringer of the Minnesota Vikings. This year, another tragic and unexpected death has occurred. Brother Thomas Herrion, a 23-year old offensive lineman for the San Francisco 49ers, collapsed in the locker room after a preseason football game and Croaked in the Spook just after the team had finished talking to the Magic Sky Man. People all over the world - young and old, rich and poor - Croak in the Spook every day. Brother Herrion’s death has been widely publicized because of his occupation and his status as a young and ostensibly healthy member of an NFL football team. This post begins an effort to hopefully jumpstart the brains and moral sensibilities of Christians who may visit this site concerning the monstrously evil and morally reprehensible doctrine of Hell. Let me state my objectives clearly and openly. I intend to begin highlighting the deaths of generally well-known folks on this site and ask Christians (and my visitors generally, of course) via a glorious poll where they believe the recently deceased now are and why. My intent is not to show disrespect toward the deceased or their grieving loved ones. My intent is to forcefully impress upon the Christian the extreme evil represented by the doctrine of Hell, as well as the fact that no person who considers themselves to be moral can honestly hold to such a morally reprehensible view of the eternal destiny of other human beings, nor can they logically claim that their God is “Love” while at the same time claiming that their “loving” God intends to BBQ everyone who wasn’t a fundamentalist Christian in life FOREVER, without mercy and without any chance of reprieve. As many of my regular visitors probably know, I was a devout fundamentalist Christian for 15 years of my life. During those years, I certainly believed in the reality of Hell, and I firmly believed that everyone who was not in a born-again relationship with Jesus was headed there. But, I believed in Hell for the same reason that I accepted other irrational Christian beliefs that lacked any demonstrable basis in reality as “Divine Truth“. I had a very profound and emotional conversion experience at the age of 19 which convinced me of the truth of the Bible and the Christian religion, and therefore I never applied much critical, rational thought to my religious beliefs. I simply believed that my beliefs were true because the Bible said so (as I interpreted it as a fundamentalist), my pastors over the years said so, and Christian evangelists and apologists whom I respected at the time said so, and emotionally I wanted it all to be true. It is now my firm conviction that anyone who critically and rationally examines Christian beliefs will find themselves unable to continue to hold them since the beliefs in question are irrational and lack any demonstrable basis in reality, and that certainly includes belief in Hell. In the case of the Hell doctrine, I believe it will be impossible for any Christian who examines the doctrine critically and rationally to continue to hold to it, not only because evidence for the actual existence of such a place is completely lacking, but because of the morally reprehensible and evil nature of the doctrine of Hell itself. In addition, Hell is not an acceptable doctrine for a moral individual to hold to because belief in Hell cannot be logically reconciled with belief in a loving God. I am looking forward to the Christian response not only to this post but to others similar to it that will appear on this site in the future, which I hope will lead to some interesting and productive discussions. Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Where is Brother Thomas Herrion now? How certain are you that Heaven, Nell, or nothing at all are the only options? Any answer at all is nothing more than an opinion. Death is the greatest mystery of all, and one that we all will experience. Personally, I simply feel sad that a young life has been cut tragically short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted August 28, 2005 Author Share Posted August 28, 2005 Where is Brother Thomas Herrion now? How certain are you that Heaven, Nell, or nothing at all are the only options? Any answer at all is nothing more than an opinion. Death is the greatest mystery of all, and one that we all will experience. Personally, I simply feel sad that a young life has been cut tragically short. Quite certain. Since I'm an atheist and don't believe in a god or any sort of an afterlife, I don't think that Heaven or Hell are choices based in reality, but since my post is directed toward a Christian audience and they do believe in the reality of those places, I offered the choices. Does that make sense? Death is the greatest mystery of all Not to the atheist it isn't. Death is simply the natural end of life and therefore the end of conscious existence. When the brain dies we die since the mind is a product of the brain and therefore after death there is for us no mind, no consciousness, no awareness, and no existence. What's the mystery? Personally, I simply feel sad that a young life has been cut tragically short. So do I. To die so suddenly and so young is tragic, and I feel for his family, friends, teammates, and everyone who knew and loved him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Not to the atheist it isn't. Death is simply the natural end of life and therefore the end of conscious existence. I have found that Atheists can be just as dogmatic and closed-minded as any Xian. Dogmatism is blind belief without proof of any kind. Have you ever heard of Nirvana? I don't think I saw that option listed. If you can prove what happens after Death, I'm certain the world would like to see your proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted August 29, 2005 Author Share Posted August 29, 2005 Not to the atheist it isn't. Death is simply the natural end of life and therefore the end of conscious existence. I have found that Atheists can be just as dogmatic and closed-minded as any Xian. Dogmatism is blind belief without proof of any kind. Have you ever heard of Nirvana? I don't think I saw that option listed. If you can prove what happens after Death, I'm certain the world would like to see your proof. I have found that Atheists can be just as dogmatic and closed-minded as any Xian. How can one be dogmatic when one lacks any dogma to be dogmatic about? How is accepting reality as it is "closed-minded"? Dogmatism is blind belief without proof of any kind. Dogmatism is the arrogant, stubborn assertion of belief or opinion. FAITH is blind belief without proof of any kind. Have you ever heard of Nirvana? Of course I've heard of Nirvana. I don't think I saw that option listed. No, because the poll is directed primarily at Christians, as I previously pointed out. If I was to list all possible options that included everybody's mythology, the poll would have thousands of options. Is that what you would prefer? If you can prove what happens after Death, I'm certain the world would like to see your proof. Absolutely nothing happens after death. My atheistic viewpoint that nothing occurs after death is strongly supported by medical science, which appears to me to offer proof enough of our mortality. See the following link. In his excellent article, Brother Augustine lays out the "Case Against Immortality" quite clearly, IMHO: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/kei...mmortality.html From http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/kei...mmortality.html: "Modern science demonstrates the dependence of consciousness on the brain, verifying that the mind must die with the body. This conclusion is emotionally difficult to accept. Dylan Thomas forcefully expresses the animosity that many of us feel toward the prospect of our inevitable extinction: "Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light" (Lamont 211). Miguel de Unamuno expresses similar feelings: "If it is nothingness that awaits us, let us make an injustice of it; let us fight against destiny, even though without hope of victory" (Lamont 211). Bertrand Russell comes to a different conclusion: "I should scorn to shiver with terror at the thought of annihilation. Happiness is nonetheless true happiness because it must come to an end, nor do thought and love lose their value because they are not everlasting" (Edwards, "Immortality" vi). I must admit that, when confronted by the death of someone close to me, or contemplating my own inevitable death, I am not comforted by such words of wisdom. Nevertheless, we cannot base our beliefs on what we want to be true; the truth can only be found by weighing the evidence for a given idea. In the case of immortality, the extinction hypothesis is supported by strong and incontrovertible evidence from the hard experimental data of physiological psychology, whereas the survival hypothesis is supported at best by weak and questionable anecdotal evidence from parapsychology." If you believe that something does occur after death and you can prove it, then I'm sure that the world would love to see your proof. The burden of proof is on you to prove that something does occur after death, not on me to prove that nothing does. At the moment not only is there no proof that anything at all happens after death, there's not even any evidence! Good luck with your afterlife "proof". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 Your argument is so impressive that I'm certain the death of all Religions is just around the corner. You believe blindly, without proof of any kind, that nothing follows death. That is the defination of a closed mind. I respect your right to believe whatever you wish. However, this kind of a Poll makes light of a tragic situation. I look forward to your next Poll after hurricane Katrina hits. I'm sure it will be just as amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 Not to the atheist it isn't. Death is simply the natural end of life and therefore the end of conscious existence. I have found that Atheists can be just as dogmatic and closed-minded as any Xian. Dogmatism is blind belief without proof of any kind. Have you ever heard of Nirvana? I don't think I saw that option listed. If you can prove what happens after Death, I'm certain the world would like to see your proof. Dogmatism: Arrogant, stubborn assertion of opinion or belief. Assertion: Something declared or stated positively, often with no support or attempt at proof. Sure, atheists could claim things in an arrogant way without attempting to provide any proofs for it. But I have only seen it as an exception rather than the norm, while in religious circles this behaviour is encouraged and a normal and expected attitude. You're told to believe things without proofs, and hold to these beliefs against any arguments or evidence people might tempt you with. So religious is a complex system to make sure you become dogmatic, while atheism is a system that allows you to question everything, even yourself and your opinions. Proof for what happens after death? Well, have you ever seen a dead cat or bird? Maggots gets to it and starts chewing away and having a feast. That's what the word Gehenna meant from the beginning (IIRC). "Trash heap". That's where we end, and the evidence can be seen. Everything points to that our minds and consciousness is nothing but data, software and chemo-electrical signals. So the awareness, the "me", disappears and my body becomes fodder for nature. This can be asserted from what we can see, anything else beyond that, are only assumptions. I know this is the crass approach of death, but I'm fine with it, and actually happy and content with the end that's coming. Sure, I'm not looking forward to it, but it can't be avoided. Live life the best way until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted August 29, 2005 Author Share Posted August 29, 2005 Your argument is so impressive that I'm certain the death of all Religions is just around the corner Though your response is obviously sarcastic, I'll respond to it anyway. The facts from medical science that support the Atheist position are indeed impressive, but the fact also remains that religion always has and always will be with us, regardless of how many times religious claims are thoroughly refuted whether by truth, facts, reason, rational thought, or common sense. It wouldn't suprise me at all, if I was somehow magically magically undeadened 5000 or even 10,000 years from now and humans are still around, to find Christians still preaching the gospel, vigorously opposing science and scientific and social progress as usual, and eagerly awaiting the return of Jesus! Glory! You believe blindly, without proof of any kind, that nothing follows death. No, faith has nothing to do with my beliefs concerning death or my acceptance of reality as it is. I believe based on solid research and facts that nothing follows death. That is the defination of a closed mind. No, it's not. What you defined is FAITH, not a closed mind. A person with a closed mind stubbornly refuses to consider evidence or facts that run contrary to what he has decided equals reality. I most definitely do not have a closed mind. If you can present evidence or facts that indicate that something occurs after death, then I will certainly consider it. By definition, my willingness to seriously consider evidence and/or facts that run contrary to what I believe to be true means that I do not have a closed mind. I respect your right to believe whatever you wish. Same here. I respect you right to believe whatever you wish. However, this kind of a Poll makes light of a tragic situation. No, it doesn't. If it did, I wouldn't have posted it. I originally wrote this post and this poll for my glorious site. The intent of it is to hopefully spur Christians to really seriously think about the morally reprehensible and evil nature of their Hell doctrine, not to be disrespectful of the deceased or the tragic nature of their death. I look forward to your next Poll after hurricane Katrina hits. I'm sure it will be just as amusing. I will not, of course, be posting a poll about Hurricane Katrina because, unlike you, I'm not an asshole. My poll, obviously, is not intended to be amusing. It's intended purpose is of a very serious nature. You don't have to like it or respond to it. Now, fuck off, asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 I picked option five, since it was the most logical option available. Although I'd have probably picked "Who knows?" if it was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted August 29, 2005 Author Share Posted August 29, 2005 I picked option five, since it was the most logical option available. Although I'd have probably picked "Who knows?" if it was there. I added that option to the poll on my site, though I am unable to edit this poll and add it here. Thanks, Sister Amethyst! Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 Brother Herrion apparently Croaked in the Spook due to heart disease. His right coronary artery was significantly blocked. In addition, he was grossly obese. Not a good combination! He was a big man, but it was evidently mostly from fat rather than muscle. I'm a bit amazed that a problem this severe never showed up in any of the physical exams he had to pass to play in the NFL, but who would think to look for heart problems in a 23-year old? Heart disease that severe that early in life is rare. Here's the link to the Yahoo News article on the cause of Brother Herrion's death: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050906/ap_on_...n_herrion_death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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