love Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 Foiling the Cults Here are some techniques to use in asserting yourself against the onslaughts of various breeds of high pressure salesmen, proponents of cults, con-men, random bullshitters and their ilk. This page is no more than a quick resume: the psychology of persuasion is a complex topic - follow the link for more. Introduction: The objective of the presenter of (the product/the cult/some particular point of view/whatever - the process is the same) is to change your mind state and make you say 'yes' to whatever it is that they might be proposing. Your mind is your means of perception: when its state is changed, you will perceive things differently. There are several ways to change someone's mind state (drugs, sensory deprivation, pain, etc.) but the methods of refutal presented here are directed at disrupting state change induced by the use of language forms thus: - appeals to the imagination by suggestion - assertion and subtle command (saying that certain things are so or not so) - presupposition (assuming certain things to be true) - distortion of information (by withholding or improper specification), and - repetition For a detailed discussion on background, and how these techniques work, and are used, follow the link. The Techniques: 1. Talk in a loud voice: even if you aren't comfortable doing so, you should - especially at the beginning of an encounter. If you are quiet, you will be assumed to be submissive and treated as such. 2. Don't give them any information about yourself. If they insist, refuse point blank: their asserted 'needs', for spurious records, routine, form filling, are their problem and not yours. Remember that the more they know about you, the more scope they have for framing their claims. 3. If the presenter attempts to appeal to your imagination (can you imagine/can you see/can you remember/I can just see you and so on), they are directly attempting to change your mind state by suggestion. Return the compliment: tell them no and add: 'Can you imagine yourself going away?'. Do that every time they make such an appeal - if he/she asks you to imagine something, it's only fair to return the compliment after all. 4. If they repeat things, they are trying to change your mind state: tell them you've got perfectly good hearing and don't like people repeating things since it makes you angry. Repeat that as often as they repeat anything. 5. If the presenter talks over you, be sure to return the compliment and talk over him/her for twice as long. 6. If they persist in using tag phrases such as 'isn't it?', 'don't you agree?', 'won't it?', be sure to point it out & then answer 'no' every time you hear another such phrase. 7. People making presentations designed to persuade are very good at omitting relevant facts and using vague words to pass things off as fact. Challenge this all the time. Ask them EXACTLY what they mean, and then question the explanation. Ask for evidence, ask for facts, and if you don't get what you're asking for keep on asking. Remember the key words WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, WHY and HOW. 8. Beware 'little stories', 'it's just like when' and 'jokes': they aren't just little stories at all but carefully prepared metaphors and allusions intended to get you to change your mind state. Refute them at once. If you feel a need to justify yourself (why?) say you have no time for such irritating things/no imagination/both. 9. Don't let any of these people touch you: if they attempt to do so, firmly and brusquely repulse the touch, tell them forcefully not to touch you, and glare. 10. In order to fully develop the full hypnotic potential of their spiel (=spell), these people will attempt to speak to you at length and stack various presuppositions and assertions such that they become near impossible to untangle. To prevent this, interrupt every time you hear some questionable statement, and keep on interrupting despite their protests: do not 'let them finish' or 'give them a chance' - they aren't giving you one: they are trying to alter the state of your mind to their advantage. 11. Do not read any literature or brochures they present, don't even look at them: if they try to insist, tell them to either leave you, or send you, a copy. 12. Never get involved in a two (or more) of them, against a one of you situation, or you will probably lose: enlist the aid of a friend or relative as a witness and co-disrupter if you need to. Show them this document before you enter the fray. 13. Establish for yourself, before you start, what the presenter's basic assumption is. Using that assumption, formulate an assertion of your own, preferably in a positive form (e.g. 'My present car is perfectly adequate' is better than 'I will not buy this used car', 'I am a happy agnostic' rather than 'I will not join this sect') and say it OUT LOUD, and without qualification, as many times as you see fit throughout the encounter. If the presenter challenges your assertions, challenge twice as many of his/hers. 14. If all else fails (and this actually works since it totally destroys any script), cluck loudly like a chicken every time the presenter speaks... then stare insanely. Good luck. 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chefranden Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 I agree with every thing but #12. The more the merrier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponymic Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 I agree with every thing but #12. The more the merrier! Agreed, if you have the will & the arsenal, you can with stand more than one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 Agreed, if you have the will & the arsenal, you can with stand more than one of them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thats true. They will have poor arguments and others who are watching will see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love Posted August 29, 2005 Author Share Posted August 29, 2005 #14 is my favorite If all else fails (and this actually works since it totally destroys any script), cluck loudly like a chicken every time the presenter speaks... then stare insanely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 14. If all else fails (and this actually works since it totally destroys any script), cluck loudly like a chicken every time the presenter speaks... then stare insanely. I'd skip RIGHT to #14! Maybe not a chicken, but any other inane babbling, such as barking like a dog, "hamboning", or WWI air plane noises complete with machine gun fire. Anything resembling being "filled with the spirit", but not really. Good stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love Posted August 30, 2005 Author Share Posted August 30, 2005 I'd skip RIGHT to #14! Maybe not a chicken, but any other inane babbling, such as barking like a dog, "hamboning", or WWI air plane noises complete with machine gun fire. Anything resembling being "filled with the spirit", but not really. Good stuff! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Make sure you get in their face, maybe spit a little as your shooting your imaginary machine guns and stare them in the eye like a maniac. Of coarse it is a last resort; you want to interrupt their (evangelism) script. Do not let them preach, tell stories or say anything without constant interuptions. Some of them will not allow you to talk. You must talk right over them and continue talking as long as it takes. I have had some of them get very obnoxious on me. But they usually only do it once. And never return. Do not let them gang up on you. You noticed how JW’s for instance run in packs. Avoid getting out numbered. Your odds of coming out unscathed are greatly reduced in this scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 LOVE NUMBER 14! Me, I usually dont have patience enough for some of the tips listed, but they are still good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 14. If all else fails (and this actually works since it totally destroys any script), cluck loudly like a chicken every time the presenter speaks... then stare insanely. Forget clucking like a chicken and think like Spock. Simply raise your eyebrow and say, "That is not logical" no matter what he says. Or you could always spout off random sci-fi quotes. Or attempt to convert the presenter to the Invisible Pink Unicorn cult. (I'd love to see this happen in RL!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 I'd skip RIGHT to #14! Maybe not a chicken, but any other inane babbling, such as barking like a dog, "hamboning", or WWI air plane noises complete with machine gun fire. Anything resembling being "filled with the spirit", but not really. Good stuff! Hey this is cool. Interspace your perfectly sane speech with tongue speaking. When they ask what was that? Say, what was what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 I like #14 as well. I have a much better bark than a cluck so I will have to try it sometime. I used to get stopped when I was working in the city from time to time. Usually I will just stare past them completely glass eyed and wait for them to finish. Depending on mood I will continue this ignoring them completely or tell them I lost them and ask them to repeat themselves. I have also done this and said "did I just zone out, I get seizures all the time, do you think it's serious?" (funny as hell when you are working as an emt). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poonis Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 "A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire When I occasionally encounter the religious believer trying to convert me, I use this against them. As with every religion, they need converts. More than money, power, and any god himself, they need *YOU*. Once they have you, they can get everything else. Never, ever, turn these dillusional folks away. As an atheist, I don't consider anything a blessing, but if I did, having believers come to me to deliver the 'good news' (so I can go to work on deprogramming their minds) is the closest thing I would equate to a blessing. The necessity of new converts is the *only* weakness of any and all religion and cult. Never do you have a chance for them to listen to you like when they want to convert you. In order to uproot religion so that it withers and dies, you must act to deconvert these folks. Do not throw it away. This small window is pretty much the only time for you to get in their heads, and it is a small one. I welcome any and all believers of all religions to interogate me about my standings on religion and life. I have written a partial blog entry about de-converting christians, but I have been very busy lately writing a manuscript specifically on de-converting the religious believer with methods that *work*. Religion is a disease, and the only cure is to meet it head on, not brushing it aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Start by picing up a large capaity magazine for your favorite black_ugly_rifle.. Begin chanting "Nine out of Ten voices are telling me to load MORE MAGS!!" Proceed to do so.. Works pretty well when the assorted sectarians are around to watch as they wonder WTF is happening... kL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Start by picing up a large capaity magazine for your favorite black_ugly_rifle.. Begin chanting "Nine out of Ten voices are telling me to load MORE MAGS!!" Proceed to do so.. Works pretty well when the assorted sectarians are around to watch as they wonder WTF is happening... kL <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Have you actually ever DONE this? If you have, you have nerve! I'd be afraid they'd call the police on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Challenger Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Also, don't look prosperous. You'll be less of a mark for them, No profit margin. (Poonis) I have written a partial blog entry about de-converting christians, but I have been very busy lately writing a manuscript specifically on de-converting the religious believer with methods that *work*. Poonis, have you ever heard of a book called "Let My Children Go!" by a man named Ted Patrick? He used to deprogram people from cults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Also, don't look prosperous. You'll be less of a mark for them, No profit margin. Not necessarily - they're looking mostly for suckers. They work in mass selling - one rich sucker is great, but so are a dozen poor suckers. Con-men or cultists, they all think the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 So, I'm thinking of this from the other angle. Could you use their tactics to get laid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead_hobbit Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Define 'cult'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Have you actually ever DONE this? If you have, you have nerve! I'd be afraid they'd call the police on me. pandora, In the front of the former haciendaFatman we had a deck in fron tof house that had to be walked up to by anyone wanting entry into front of house. After a day at range we cleand the arms on deck using the card table and assorted garden chairs. More than once the white shirted, black tied folks from religion.r.us would show up during the postgame activities of Festivus John Moses Browning. The jehobbahz witlessness sorts are sworn by their religion not to *play with guns* and tend to not want to lark around with cats that play with them.. Baptistz and Morons tend to be less 'fraid of arms, but more knowledgeable of and about *not fucking with armed mean_old_men*.. The Jw's I uses the "( outa 10 voices" did call the Cops, and when they showed up it was fun having a discussion as to the 'why' they came.. Dunno if this tactic drives them away on a permanant basis, but we';ve not had any JW's here since new hacineda was put up.. kL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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