Xtian Scientists Want Spiritual Care

[Guest]

This was in Sunday's paper. I tried to find an online link, but could not, so I'm typing a bit of it here. This angers me so much that these people have the fucking balls to think they can get paid for talking to themselves and have it considered valid medical treatment.

 

As the health care battle moved forward last week, Phil Davis, a senior Christian Science church official, hurriedly delivered bundles of letters to Senate offices promoting a little-noticed proposal in the legislation requiring insurers to consider covering the church's prayer treatments just as they do other medical expenses.

 

Critics say the proposal would essentially put Christian Science prayer treatments on the same footing as science-based medical care by prohibiting discrimination against "religious and spiritual health care."

 

While advancing below the radar as debate focuses on larger issues such as the "public option", the Christian Scientist's proviso has begun to stir controversy because it rekindles debate on three long-running and sensitive issues: freedom of religion; the constitutional separation of church and state; and the question of whether faith-based approaches should be treated as equivalent to science-based medicine.

 

The Christian Science church believes that prayer treatment is an effective alternative to doctors and other medical care.

(snip)

Other critics say covering prayer treatments runs counter to the goal of reducing health care costs with evidence-based medical practices. The government's attitude about Christian Science prayer treatments has seemed ambivalent.

 

The IRS, for example, allows the cost of prayer sessions to be counted among itemized medical expenses for income tax purposes-one of the only religious treatments explicitly identified as deductible.

At the same time, criminal courts have convicted Christian Scientists in cases where children have died after visiting prayer healers instead of receiving traditional medical care. The church says no such cases have been brought for two decades.

 

There is a lot more to the article, but these were the relevant bits. All I can say is WTF?

[Shyone]

At the same time, criminal courts have convicted Christian Scientists in cases where children have died after visiting prayer healers instead of receiving traditional medical care. The church says no such cases have been brought for two decades.

 

There is a lot more to the article, but these were the relevant bits. All I can say is WTF?

No cases for two decades?

 

http://www.rickross.com/reference/cscience/cscience28.html

Church of Christ, Scientist = Christian Scientist?

 

There is at least some hope for the future:

 

Summary: The End of Christian Science

 

Christian Science may be the only major religion of this century to go out of business-only 33% of their children remain in the church as adults compared to 81 % for Catholics, 80% for Mormons, and 80% for Baptists. Few religions have a lower retention level (Stark, 1989, p. 209). In 1936 their membership peaked at 268,915 and today it is estimated to be less then 106,000 (1990) and falling (Stark, 1998, p. 1991).

 

This article describes many deaths and a lot of prosecutions:

 

http://blog.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/2009/06/faithhealing_deaths_previous_s.html

[Guest]

At the same time, criminal courts have convicted Christian Scientists in cases where children have died after visiting prayer healers instead of receiving traditional medical care. The church says no such cases have been brought for two decades.

 

There is a lot more to the article, but these were the relevant bits. All I can say is WTF?

No cases for two decades?

 

This article describes many deaths and a lot of prosecutions:

 

http://blog.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/2009/06/faithhealing_deaths_previous_s.html

 

Yea, I'd like to see some stats on how much success they have with their prayers. I don't care how many lawsuits are brought against them, but I would like to see how many prayer sessions end with the patient dying from their disease...

[Shyone]

Yea, I'd like to see some stats on how much success they have with their prayers. I don't care how many lawsuits are brought against them, but I would like to see how many prayer sessions end with the patient dying from their disease...

There are, of course, no controlled studies of the efficacy of prayer that justify reimbursing it as a form of treatment.

 

If they do, I'm going to become a Christian fucking Scientist and heal my wife every goddamned day at $100.00 per session.

 

And, if they grant Christian Scientists that privilege, then what about other religions - such as the FSM?

[Guest I Love Dog]

The IRS, for example, allows the cost of prayer sessions to be counted among itemized medical expenses for income tax purposes-one of the only religious treatments explicitly identified as deductible.

 

Sounds like the IRS in USA needs a severe overhaul. If I was an American taxpayer I'd be screaming mad about these deductions. How the f**k can a prayer be a medical treatment?

 

Only in America!

[OpheliaGinger]

Like the health care companies are going to shell out money for prayer--they hardly pay for life saving surgeries. Prayer costs absolutely nothing to administer and anyone can do it, since there seems to be a contention among Christians on as to whose Christianity is true.

[Loren]

Like the health care companies are going to shell out money for prayer--they hardly pay for life saving surgeries. Prayer costs absolutely nothing to administer and anyone can do it, since there seems to be a contention among Christians on as to whose Christianity is true.

Exactly what I was thinking. How the hell do they figure the costs? Will there be an IRS tax table in some obscure manual that gives a formula for itemizing the costs of prayer?

 

And if the Christian Scientist practitioners can do that, then why not the people who do voodoo and Santeria?

 

I'll bet the Santeria practitioners could itemize like a motherfucker!

 

Line 6. Cost of dead chicken.

 

Line 7. Cost of broken bottle.

 

Line 8. Cost of blessed pencil stub.

 

Line 9. Cost of black candles.

 

Line 10. Cost of red candles.

 

Line 11. Cost of Holy rubber bands and paper clips.

 

Line 12. Cost of mouthful of cheap whiskey to be sprayed on patient.

 

Line 13. Cost of dead cat.

 

Line 14. Add lines 6 through 13. This is your Combined Blessings Cost. (CBC)

 

Line 15. Subtract the number in Line 3., your Persecution Avoidance Penalty (PAP) from the number in line 14. This is your Adjusted Combined Blessings Cost. (ACBC)

 

Line 16. Take the number in Line 15 (Your ACBC), and refer to the table on pages 32-43 of this booklet to find your Sanctified Deduction Bracket (SDB).

[Guest]

Like the health care companies are going to shell out money for prayer--they hardly pay for life saving surgeries. Prayer costs absolutely nothing to administer and anyone can do it, since there seems to be a contention among Christians on as to whose Christianity is true.

 

I didn't type out the whole article, as it took up an entire page of the paper, but here's another snippet:

 

Davis has been trained as a practitioner and still occasionally treats the sick. "we'll talk to them about their relationship with god," he said. "We'll talk to them about citations or biblical passages they might study. We refer to it as treatment."

During the day, Davis may see multiple patients and pray for them at different moments. He charges $20 to $40 for the day, saying, "I think that it would be considered modest by any standard."

 

So maybe insurance companies would prefer this over real treatment? It's cheaper...

[Skankboy]

I actually heard a good Christian argument against this from Mike Huckabee of all people.

 

Is prayer you have to pay for really prayer?

[OpheliaGinger]

Like the health care companies are going to shell out money for prayer--they hardly pay for life saving surgeries. Prayer costs absolutely nothing to administer and anyone can do it, since there seems to be a contention among Christians on as to whose Christianity is true.

 

I didn't type out the whole article, as it took up an entire page of the paper, but here's another snippet:

 

Davis has been trained as a practitioner and still occasionally treats the sick. "we'll talk to them about their relationship with god," he said. "We'll talk to them about citations or biblical passages they might study. We refer to it as treatment."

During the day, Davis may see multiple patients and pray for them at different moments. He charges $20 to $40 for the day, saying, "I think that it would be considered modest by any standard."

 

So maybe insurance companies would prefer this over real treatment? It's cheaper...

 

I should get into that racket. "I'll pray for you, but it'll cost ya."