Intelligent Design......

[Guest Thegoodbook]

I would like to point out a couple of facts. First Albert Einstein, one of the greatest scientific thinkers of all time, believed in God and intelligent design. He never believed the universe came about by chance.

Secondly scientists can assemble all the elements and compounds found in living cells, but are not able to make these substances become alive. they cannot even make a simple living one celled animal such as an ameba. How then is this supposed to have happened by accident?

 

All our scientists can do is splice genes or move them around to alter the characteristics of already living organisms. Even to make a clone, you must start with cells that are already living and able to reproduce. Draw your own conclusion.

[Pariah]

First Albert Einstein, one of the greatest scientific thinkers of all time, believed in God and intelligent design. He never believed the universe came about by chance.

 

So what? That doesn't prove anything.

 

The kind of fallacious reasoning you are attempting to use is called an "Arguement from Authority".

[crazy-tiger]

I would like to point out a couple of facts. First Albert Einstein, one of the greatest scientific thinkers of all time, believed in God and intelligent design. He never believed the universe came about by chance.

To quote Mr. Einstein himself...

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

The closest you get to him believing in ID is that he was a Deist.

 

Unfortunately, a Deist is of the mind that the universe was created and then left to it's own devices. No ID in there...

Secondly scientists can assemble all the elements and compounds found in living cells, but are not able to make these substances become alive. they cannot even make a simple living one celled animal such as an ameba. How then is this supposed to have happened by accident?

You've no idea just how close they are to producing life, do you?

 

They are at the probiont stage right now, and that is just ONE step away from life... (even though probionts could be described as life)

All our scientists can do is splice genes or move them around to alter the characteristics of already living organisms. Even to make a clone, you must start with cells that are already living and able to reproduce. Draw your own conclusion.

Conclusion? You don't know what you're talking about...

[Ouroboros]

I would like to point out  a couple of facts. First Albert Einstein, one of the greatest scientific thinkers of all time, believed in God and intelligent design.

No. That's false. He was agnostic. You're a moron. If you're going to give facts, give true facts, not some religous bullshit.

 

He never believed the universe came about by chance.

Not true.

 

Secondly scientists can assemble all the elements and compounds found in  living cells, but are not able to make these substances become alive. they cannot even make a simple living one celled animal such as an ameba. How then is this supposed to have happened by accident?

We have a whole topic of 1100 posts talking about that. We're not going to start another one.

 

All our scientists can do is splice genes or move them around to alter the characteristics of already living organisms.

Also extremely wrong. Mutations have been done and concluded as a fact and been done in experiements. You're incompetent, ignorant, religous fanatatic, dogmatic extremist and you have nothing new to offer.

 

Even to make a clone, you must start with cells that are already living and able to reproduce. Draw your own conclusion.

My conclusions are that you're a troll, coming to this website, starting discussions, but never bring anything new or interesting to the table. My conclusion is that you're uneducated, ignorant, closed minded, easily duped and fragile in your faith. You're a danger for the people around you, and you need to go and see a doctor for medical help.

[crazy-tiger]

We have a whole topic of 1100 posts talking about that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not quite true, is it?

 

We have a whole topic of over 1100 posts of a pair of idiots coming out with half-baked garbage that they think we can't answer while we show them just what mistakes their half-baked garbage is based on.

[Guest Thegoodbook]

Darwin' theory of evolution is exactly what it is called, a theory. Intelligent design is not a belief based on religion, it is a belief based on faith in Truth. Faith is belief, trust and confidence in what cannot be seen . Science is a wonderful way to explore the evolution of what has been created. And, yes science has found that the earth has not been around for billions of years like originally thought; and what I was taught in school. More and more, scientists are learning that the theory of evolution and the big bang have no scientific support.

 

When you think of the vast array of just plant life: all the separate classifications making up the biological world; plants that have medicinal values; plants that are poisonous; some that bear fruit of all varieties;the flowers, buds and reproductive process of these plants; and how they take nutrients from the water and soil, you know this did not all "just happen by chance" It had to be created by someone so intelligent that we cannot begin to comprehend that form of intelligence. It is beyond human understanding to fathom the intelligence of GOD.

 

Now when you think of man and that children have a tremendous amount of material in their brain to allow them to learn that then decreases as they age, then at certain ages hormone are produced to allow for reproduction which slack off as you age, not to mention all the other changes that take place at certain ages or stages in one's life, and that it would take 1000 volumes of 500 pages each of single-spaced lines made up of five letters per word to describe the DNA or intelligence of just one person, you realize that this could not just have " Happen by chance" It is the design of one so intelligent, man cannot begin to comprehend . Science has proven that the components making up the earth are present in the human body. That's because the Bible says man was crated from the dust of the earth; and also the God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the tree that yields fruit of its kind, the living creature of its kind, the living creature of its kind, the cattle of its kind......"

 

So in essence, everything has "evolved" from the earth but not by chance, by design. Science and creation do go together; science is the method to confirm, in man's understanding that what the Bible says about God's creative design is true. Man has been given the Bible to answer all of his questions. And it takes faith to believe that what it says is true. And that is stepping into the light, and not the Dark Ages.

[Ouroboros]

TGB, You're insane! I was impressed when I saw that you actually posted again, in hope that you actually did some kind of response, but no... you only went on with your ranting. You're like a stuck vinyl disc on a turn-table (I guess many here have no clue what I'm talking about - pre-CD era...)

 

TGB, how old are you?

 

Darwin' theory of evolution is exactly what it is called, a theory.

Correct. But it's a Scientific Theory. You're mixing up "theory" in casual language with "theory" in scientific meaning. Already a proof that you have zero knowledge of science.

 

Intelligent design is not a belief based on religion, it is a belief based on faith in Truth.

Hehe. Which "Truth"? Thor and Odin designed the universe, or Zeus, or Brahman, or Allah? But you're right it's not based on religion, or at least is not supposed to be, but it is, since every ID person you talk to, refuse to believe in Evolution and Big Bang, which are completely acceptable under ID also. A divine creature could have used Big Bang and Evolution to create the world and the humans, but ID won't accept Evolution. And that is a proof that ID has an agenda to establish the base for Creationism instead.

 

If you believe in ID, you shouldn't exclude Evolution one single bit. You should accept every little piece of Evolution Theory if you were a True Intelligent Design™ supporter. And that you don't, proves that you don't believe in ID, but you believe in Creationsism (and most likely the Biblical version of it).

 

Faith is belief, trust and confidence in what cannot be seen . Science is a wonderful way to explore the evolution of what has been created. And, yes science has found that the earth has not been around for billions of years like originally thought; and what I was taught in school. More and more, scientists are learning that the theory of evolution and the big bang have no scientific support.

There are more and more evidence to support evolution, not the other way around.

 

Yes, Big Bang is under scrutiny.

 

Earth not billions of years... huh? You must've gone to a religious school, that's why your knowledge in science is so screwed up.

 

I'm not going to answer anything else, because I (a bit late) realize you're a spammer and a troll.

 

***edit***

 

If you don't start getting into a meaningful debate and conversation, instead of shouting your opinions without responding, you might get blocked, because you're spamming your religion, not debating.

[crazy-tiger]

Darwin' theory of evolution is exactly what it is called, a theory. Intelligent design is not a belief based on religion, it is a belief based on faith in Truth. Faith is belief, trust and confidence in what cannot be seen . Science is a wonderful way to explore the evolution of what has been created. And, yes science has found that the earth has not been around for billions of years like originally thought; and what I was taught in school. More and more, scientists are learning that the theory of evolution and the big bang have no scientific support.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh dear...

 

Another one who's swallowed the Hovind lies hook, line and sinker...

 

 

 

Sorry bud, but you're just repeating stuff that get debunked years ago. Try reading some of the stuff here... http://www.talkorigins.org/

 

Not that I think you will, but there's enough stuff there to blast your current "argument" out of the water like a twig being depthcharged.

[crazy-tiger]

Man has been given the  Bible to answer all of his questions. And it takes faith to believe that what it says is true. And that is stepping into the light, and not the Dark Ages.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh yeah? Where's the answer to this question then...

 

 

Why do my armpits smell at the end of a hot day?

[Ouroboros]

I'm going to give you the proof there is no Intelligent Design:

 

TheGoodBook's arguments. They're non-intelligent, so the design is not intelligent.

[crazy-tiger]

I'm going to give you the proof there is not Intelligent Design:

 

TheGoodBook's arguments. They're non-intelligent, so the design is not intelligent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

New keyboard please...

[Ouroboros]

 

New keyboard please...

Damn! More money from my account...

[Ouroboros]

Oh yeah? Where's the answer to this question then...

Why do my armpits smell at the end of a hot day?

Hmmm. Wrong deoderant?

 

You need the Jesus version, the Deus-derant, instead.

 

Hey, maybe you're sweating so much because you're already in Hell, but didn't know it???

[Mike D]

I would like to point out  a couple of facts. First Albert Einstein, one of the greatest scientific thinkers of all time, believed in God and intelligent design. He never believed the universe came about by chance.

So what? Einstein wasn't a Christian, and you even said yourself that even Satan believes in God. So according to your beliefs at this very minute Einstein is being burned alive and tortured so sadistically that it is beyond our capacity to even comprehend such brutality as humans.

 

God belief (or deism) isn't enough.... you're either with Jesus or you're against him. So why waste your time trying to convince us to consider deism?

[crazy-tiger]

Hmmm. Wrong deoderant?

 

You need the Jesus version, the Deus-derant, instead.

 

Hey, maybe you're sweating so much because you're already in Hell, but didn't know it??? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It says that in the bible?? I must have been using the wrong version...

 

 

Another question which has no answer in the bible... Why do my balls get sweaty even on a cold day?

[Ouroboros]

It says that in the bible?? I must have been using the wrong version...

Another question which has no answer in the bible... Why do my balls get sweaty even on a cold day?

Hmmm. The balls are closer to hell? That's why the feet get sweaty too.

[crazy-tiger]

Hmmm. The balls are closer to hell? That's why the feet get sweaty too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But my feet don't get sweaty unless it's a warm day...

 

 

Next question which the bible cannot answer...

 

Why is my MiL not a MiLF?

[Mr. Neil]

I would like to point out  a couple of facts. First Albert Einstein, one of the greatest scientific thinkers of all time, believed in God and intelligent design. He never believed the universe came about by chance.

This is a horrendous lie often used by believers. Even if you're just repeating it from another source, I can assure you that you're repeating someone else's lie.

 

Here is what Einstein said:

"God does not play dice with the universe."

 

Here, Einstein is talking about chance in the universe, and he refers to this as "God's dice". It's important to note, however, that Einstein was using the word "god" in a very figurative sense, as he was not actually referring to a creator. He was talking about how the universe works. You see, this quote has nothing to do with theism, intelligent design, or evolution. This is Einstein's response to the quantum theory. This is the "chance" that Einstein was referring to.

 

Second, Albert Einstein, as smart as he was, wasted the second half of his life resisting quantum mechanics. By the time Einstein had made that statement, mainstream science had already left him far behind.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Darwin' theory of evolution is exactly what it is called, a theory. Intelligent design is not a belief based on religion, it is a belief based on faith in Truth. Faith is belief, trust and confidence in what cannot be seen . Science is a wonderful way to explore the evolution of what has been created. ..

 

A scientific theory is a system of propositions that predicts answers to a problem. Its predictions have to be verified by observation in a way that is intersubjectively testible. In principle, it has to be possible to falisify a scientific theory's predictions, i.e. it has to be possible to do an experiment that contradicts the theory and shows it to be false. The longer the theory stands up under experimental testing, the more new directions of research it can predict, and the more it supports expansion of knowledge. It guides scientists to discover new stuff.

 

The TOE is one of history's best examples of a scientific theory at work.

 

Are you saying that Intelligent Design is a scientific theory? If so, it must be falsifiable, otherwise it is a metaphysical system or a mythology or pseudo-science or some other thing.

 

Read this excerpt below from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy's article on Karl Popper, whose book, The Logic of Scientific Discovery, was classic on this topic. Then, TGB, DEVELOP AN ARGUMENT that demonstrates that ID is a scientific theory (not a faith statement or some other thing). State under what conditions it could be falsified.

 

here's the quote about Popper:

 

"Science, in Popper's view, starts with problems rather than with observations - it is, indeed, precisely in the context of grappling with a problem that the scientist makes observations in the first instance: his observations are selectively designed to test the extent to which a given theory functions as a satisfactory solution to a given problem.

 

On this criterion of demarcation physics, chemistry, and (non-introspective) psychology, amongst others, are sciences, psychoanalysis is a pre-science (i.e. it undoubtedly contains useful and informative truths, but until such time as psychoanalytical theories can be formulated in such a manner as to be falsifiable, they will not attain the status of scientific theories), and astrology and phrenology are pseudo-sciences. Formally, then, Popper's theory of demarcation may be articulated as follows: where a ‘basic statement’ is to be understood as a particular observation-report, then we may say that a theory is scientific if and only if it divides the class of basic statements into the following two non-empty sub-classes: (1) the class of all those basic statements with which it is inconsistent, or which it prohibits - this is the class of its potential falsifiers (i.e. those statements which, if true, falsify the whole theory), and (2) the class of those basic statements with which it is consistent, or which it permits (i.e. those statements which, if true, corroborate it, or bear it out). "

 

I would really like an answer to THIS question. No Christian or other sort of ID advocate on this site has ever stated under what conditions ID could be falsified.

 

Please don't reply by:

1. asking me how I know this or that

2. quoting the bible

3. asserting that evidence for abiogenesis or something else is not conclusive

4. asserting that structures like the eye are too complex to have been the product of anything but action by an intelligent creator

 

Just prove that ID is a scientific theory.

[Ouroboros]

But my feet don't get sweaty unless it's a warm day...

Next question which the bible cannot answer...

 

Why is my MiL not a MiLF?

Now, YOU owe me a keyboard!!!

[Vulgaris Prime]

I would like to point out  a couple of facts. First Albert Einstein, one of the greatest scientific thinkers of all time, believed in God and intelligent design. He never believed the universe came about by chance.

 

Except nobody maintains that. Your first statement is an appeal to authority; your second is an appeal to ignorance.

 

Two fallacies in two statements isn't a good way to come busting out of the chute, cowboy.

 

Secondly scientists can assemble all the elements and compounds found in  living cells, but are not able to make these substances become alive. they cannot even make a simple living one celled animal such as an ameba. How then is this supposed to have happened by accident?

 

Once again, you're lying. NOBODY EXCEPT CREATIONIST LIARS ASSERT THAT THE UNIVERSE CAME ABOUT BY CHANCE. Learn that previous sentence well, as you're going to be hearing it a lot.

 

Second, we can still maintain and support life despite not being your god. Does that make us gods in your mind, since we have found ways to cheat death, even though it's only temporary so far (and we're working on that)?

 

All our scientists can do is splice genes or move them around to alter the characteristics of already living organisms. Even to make a clone, you must start with cells that are already living and able to reproduce. Draw your own conclusion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Okay, here's my conclusion:

 

You're an ignorant prat.

[Mr. Neil]

Darwin' theory of evolution is exactly what it is called, a theory. Intelligent design is not a belief based on religion, it is a belief based on faith in Truth. Faith is belief, trust and confidence in what cannot be seen . Science is a wonderful way to explore the evolution of what has been created. And, yes science has found that the earth has not been around for billions of years like originally thought; and what I was taught in school. More and more, scientists are learning that the theory of evolution and the big bang have no scientific support.

Show me one peer-reviewed scientific article that supports any of this. What evidence is being found that the Earth is not billions of years old?

 

 

When you think of the vast array of just plant life: all the separate classifications making up the biological world; plants that have medicinal values; plants that are poisonous; some that bear fruit of all varieties;the flowers, buds and reproductive process of these plants; and how they take nutrients from the water and soil, you know this  did not all "just happen by chance" It had to be created by someone so intelligent that we cannot begin to comprehend that form of intelligence. It is beyond human understanding to fathom the intelligence of GOD.

Why is the argument from ignorance still the most common argument used by theists?

 

Your basically argument that since the natural processes to create life appear to be unfathomable, then there must be a god, and he must have created the universe. Sorry, that's not good enough. In order for God to even become a theoretical concept, you must first show some evidence, and no, evidence against the contrary is not evidence for God.

 

Besides none of this has anything to do with the theory of evolution, which is a theory of common ancestory among species. Why do you assume that God cannot use evolution? How do you justify this false dichotomy?

 

Evolution basically states that alleles change over time. There is evidence of common ancestory in both genetics and morphology. Endogenous retroviruses, which are viral remnants left behind by viruses, are shared between species of common morphology and genetics. We share several of these with the chimps. The only sensible explanation of this is common ancestory.

 

 

Now when you think of man and that children have a tremendous amount of material in their brain to allow them to learn that then decreases as they age, then at certain ages hormone are produced to allow for reproduction which slack off as you age, not to mention all the other changes that take place at certain ages or stages in one's life, and that it would take 1000 volumes of 500 pages each of single-spaced lines made up of five letters per word to describe the DNA or intelligence of just one person, you realize that this could not just have " Happen by chance" It is the design of one so intelligent, man cannot begin to comprehend.

This argument is a variation of the tornado-in-a-junkyard argument, which is akin to thinking that random material can be dropped and form into complex structures. This sort of process exists nowhere in evolution. Instead, increasing complexity occurs as small successes accumulate over a long period of time.

 

If you had actually taken a moment or two to actually learn about evolution, instead of reading about it from a creationist website, you would know that.

 

 

So in essence, everything has "evolved" from the earth but not by chance, by design. Science and creation do go together; science is the method to confirm, in man's understanding that what the Bible says about God's creative design is true. Man has been given the  Bible to answer all of his questions. And it takes faith to believe that what it says is true. And that is stepping into the light, and not the Dark Ages.

Funny that you would say that. The darkest chapter in human history is probably the Inquisition, in which Biblical literalism was at its highest.

[Mr. Neil]

And speaking of the human brain...

 

Maybe you would like to explain why the human brain even exists, Book. After all, if we are just spirits inhabiting earthly vessels, and our consciousness continues on when we die, then why do we need brains at all? Everything science knows about the brain indicates that we need it for cognitive function, but that doesn't make a lick of sense in your worldview.

 

I think you've got a huge problem on your head. ...er, hands.

[Ouroboros]

And speaking of the human brain...

 

Maybe you would like to explain why the human brain even exists, Book.  After all, if we are just spirits inhabiting earthly vessels, and ouc consciousness continues on when we die, then why do we need brains at all?  Everything science knows about the brain indicates that we need it for cognitive function, but that doesn't make a lick of sense in your worldview.

 

I think you've got a huge problem on your head.  ...er, hands.

Good point.

 

Maybe TGB doesn't have a brain... let's do an experiment. Let's remove TGB's brain, and see if his soul still speaks through him! It probably will, since he's rather talking through his ass, just like his God does in the Bible.

[crazy-tiger]

Now, YOU owe me a keyboard!!! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tell you what... you pay for the keyboard I wrecked and I'll pay for the keyboard you wrecked.

 

That fair enough?

 

 

 

Anyway, another question that the bible cannot answer...

 

What makes a good sitcom?