My Journey To Reluctant Atheism

[dichotomy]

Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to share my story and I have a habit of being long winded.

 

Like many of you here I grew up in a christian household. I grew up attending a rural Methodist church. My mum would just describe herself as a Christian and at a push 'born again', my dad was from a catholic background and less vocal in that respect and was in many ways a socialist/marxist at heart, so most of his political views clashed with the churches'. Having parents with differing (often opposing) views gave me a good starting point in life. My dad rarely spoke of his faith in personal terms although he was for a time a local preacher and hoped to enter the ministry professionally. My mum only ever spoke about christianity in terms of her personal beliefs and relationship with God, very little was absolute. They were always quite open for me to discover my own answers, but preferably within Christianity. It worked. Whilst I wasn't forced to attend church or believe it was a natural process for me within my social circle. I asked Jesus into my heart at the age of 7. By the time I was 9 I'd had some pretty *real* religious experiences and by my early teens I was a fully fledged, actively evangelical born again Christian. Whilst my parents were never obsessive in the religious sense, we did have a difficult homelife as a result of my dad being an alcoholic and I was very unhappy, insecure and angry as a teenager. As a result church and god were a great place for escapism and to release my emotions so I became very involved in a charismatic youth group and that set me up well for entrance into the world of Pentecostalism and all the *joys* it brings.

 

Throughout my time at the youth group I experienced two things. Firstly I found a place where I felt loved and accepted and special no matter what. It was a place of safety and encouragement. I was a "child of god" he was my heavenly father who was a great deal better than my real one. I discovered I had "gifts", I could sing well and *lead the worship* for which I received great acclaim, attention and praise. I was told I was a *prophet* and often shared *God's heart* to individuals and the church group as a whole. However, I also discovered a world of control, manipulation, emotional abuse and constant discord and battles between the people I loved. By the time I was 17 I was a complete and emotional wreck. I was ill with the stress of home life and my involvement in church. I decided to leave the youth group (for which I was frowned upon greatly) and attended a different church which initially seemed much less controlling and judgmental. Amazingly despite my huge criticisms of the youth group itself I thought it was just that church that was at fault and it never occurred to me that there was a problem with christianity or the concept of God in general. I was determined that *satan* was not going to prevent me from living my true purpose and seeing my full potential as a *child of God*.

 

I married my husband in 2000 when I was 18 and he was 19. We were together because we loved each other, but we got married at that time because we felt we had to to be accepted by family and the christian community. Even then I felt it was non of their business whether I had sex or got married or not, but I felt I had to do it. (Something both myself and my husband now regret). We moved away to a different city be part of a missionary outreach into schools. It was a dreadful year and we left as soon as we could. We moved again to another city so I could go to university and to join a church that we had connections with and high hopes for. My choice in study was Comparative religion and Social anthropology, purposefully from a secular perspective, as I was sick of only hearing the christian point of view of other religions and cultures. I think even then I had doubts but didn't allow myself to follow them through.

 

To cut along story short, the church we joined was AoG and after the initial positives in the first few months I quickly discovered that this church was just like my old youth group but with very few of the positives. Not only did I feel controlled and manipulated, I also felt used, judged, devalued and worthless. They wanted us for our "gifts" and natural abilities and would shower us with compliments when they wanted something or had a role that needed filling. But when I expressed a need for emotional help or expressed concern against anything I was labelled negative, critical, interfering, high maintenance and a trouble maker. I was criticised for how I dressed, how I spoke and for not being 'committed enough' when I expressed a desire to do things outside of the church and not sign up to two/three weekly ministry activities and two sunday services. When I allowed myself to be vulnerable in church and show emotion I was told that I didn't have enough faith, that I should 'praise god whatever my circumstances' and that I wasn't setting a good example as a leader by crying in meetings. There was constant tension as we were given all this *responsibility* and were being trained up as leaders and yet we weren't good enough as we are and were given no real support and encouragement, just criticism and work. I put so much time and energy, indeed years of my life into that church.

 

I was deeply unhappy and for a few very dark months I was suicidal. I hated my life and my involvement in such a cruel church setting but couldn't find a way out. I spoke to my husband and close family and friends so many times about my problems and fears and difficulties but they all managed to persuade me that God would see me through it. The whole "all things work for the good of those who believe in Him" attitude.

 

> ETA: I prayed and fasted for days and weeks at a time. I would have arguments with God in my head and at times believed there were demons around me "speaking" to me to get me to kill myself or do things against god - especially at home at night. I went though phases of being really into prophecy, prayer and healing and enthusiastically praising and speaking in tongues during the *worship* time. Then other phases of deep despair and crying and panicking and thinking people could "see into me" and that god was speaking to them telling them all my deep dark secrets. I guess maybe there were elements of paranoia and delusions of grandeur actually, looking at that, but all of this was encouraged and confirmed by people within the church. Spiritual gifts and the spiritual realm were a reality. It's all very freaky for me now when I think of it, in fact I find it embarrassing and shameful. All those people that I had "prophecies" and "words" for, and passed my freaky beliefs and morals onto <

 

I got baptised and said the vows to become a member of the church because that was what my husband and church expected, despite the fact I sincerely didn't want to. I remember running to the toilets and vomiting during the church service before I went to "sign up" to be a member because I was so stressed and torn between doing what my husband and church wanted and what I really felt.

 

My husband gradually began to come to my way of thinking and eventually we left the church in 2005. Despite all this I continued in my faith and relationship with God. I had huge issues with the church but still didn't question my God, and the moments I did I went to my husband for reassurance and they went away.

 

We joined another church but I made it clear from the beginning that I was not going to *do* anything for them nor was I going to *commit* to attending "x" amount of meetings every week as I had had to previously. I was tired & weary of it all and felt I needed time for god to *heal* me. We generally only attended the home group mid week meeting where we made some of our closest friends. We (especially my husband) created a name for ourselves as troublemakers and debaters who always wanted to question and challenge everything. We eventually came to the decision that our *problem* with Church was that it wasn't New Testament enough and decided we should become part of a house church movement. We moved onto a particular housing estate to join two other couples who were of the same mind and set up a little house-church.

 

It was at this point, where there were few problems other than general personality clashes and disagreements that we were free to start thinking clearly. Without all the battles and trials within church we started to focus our questions on Christianity itself. We attended this bible and christian study course once a month which really pulled apart and examined all areas of Christianity, from theology, scripture interpretations, ethics, church history, you name it we covered it! Both of our beliefs changed dramatically once we were in a situation where we felt *allowed* to be whatever we wished to be. We were very liberal and content with that. I still believed in God and Jesus but that was about as far as it went. My husband went through a universalist phase and I decided I could be a Christian and evolutionist without fear of being criticised. However around the same time my brother in law told us that not only did he not go to church but he was an atheist and it got me and my husband talking. I remember saying "what if it is all just in our heads? What if we have just imagined god speaking to us?" My husband reassured me and was really angry for about 2 weeks with what his brother and I had said. I thought nothing of it and went back to my happy liberal beliefs.

 

About a month later my husband told me he'd lost his faith. We battled for a few weeks, met with various friends and family to talk with them. It took another month or two for my husband to finally accept he really was an atheist. He'd basically gone away, thought about what his brother and I had said and walked himself through it all logically and come to the conclusion there was no God.

 

It was a big shock to the family and even though I'd suspected it it was still a huge emotional upheaval for me. I was furious. The amount of times over the years I'd doubted and challenged things, and he'd refused to talk about it on a deep level and persuaded me I was wrong and that Christianity was the truth and I had just gone along with it and pushed those concerns deep down again. Then he goes away for a few weeks and becomes an atheist! I was very put out and felt deeply betrayed.

 

I also remember being panicky at times because of the fear that he wouldn't go to heaven with me but would suffer eternal damnation. I knew I loved him whatever, I remember that some days I'd feel I'd accepted his decision, but then I'd have moments of feeling angry then devastated then confused and just didn't know what to do. I felt I *should* be trying to convince him but didn't really want to and any conversation would turn into an argument and it could turn quite nasty (more from his side I'll add). My biggest struggle was that it felt like I could respect him but he no longer respected me because of my beliefs. The scorn from him at times was so very hurtful as all of a sudden it seemed my opinion was less valid because I was a Christian and he was the only *rational* one. I totally get where he was coming from and of course since then I have changed my mind on things, but he didn't need to be so aggressive about it, I'd have gotten there anyway.

 

This happened about 3 years ago now. Since then I have gradually thought through everything again in my own time and come to the conclusion that as much as I wanted to be able to believe I don't. I have realised that had I not been married to my husband I may well have gotten to this point years ago, but I battled with it because I loved him and loved God and I'd put so much effort into being a Christian and couldn't let myself let them down. When he changed his mind I suddenly felt free to think for myself properly for the first time in years. Obviously some of our friends think I've only *fallen away* because my husband has, but I think it's much more likely that he propped me up as a Christian because he so fervently believed.

 

I still go through phases of almost believing or imagining there is a god and praying and listening to christian music, mostly out of habit I think. And part of me can't let go of the identity of being a christian. But I have no intention of ever going to church again. I went for a friend's baby's dedication recently and almost had a panic attack it brought back so many terrible memories and feelings that I don't ever want to experience again. I think I'm a reluctant atheist, but I'm the happiest and most content I've ever been and I intend to keep it that way.

 

--------------

 

ETA: I realised looking back over this that I hadn't given much detail about my actual beliefs and how it affected me emotionally so added a little bit more above. ^

 

I'm also conscious that it looks like I'm blaming my husband a little. He didn't make me believe and I wasn't living a lie either. I certainly believed for 95% of the time and was quite a pentecostal zealot for a few years. It's just I often had doubts and suspicions that possibly it was all just my imagination or in my head and that I only believed what I did because I'd grown up to believe. It was at those moments that I went to my husband and he'd reassure me it was all true. My criticisms of the church however and organised religion were always very potent and I always challenged and questioned them from my early teens. It just took my husband a while to "catch up" then he over took me big time lol

 

edit again to correct horrendous grammar and typos lol

[dichotomy]

Oh it really is long isn't it! I tried to cut things out but ended up adding more I think! Sorry!

[Shyone]

Obviously some of our friends think I've only *fallen away* because my husband has, but I think it's much more likely that he propped me up as a Christian because he so fervently believed.

You have a very compelling story. I had not thought it possible for someone to affect their spouse's beliefs, so you have taken a different road from many. Each ex-Christian's apostasy came a slightly different way and for slightly different reasons. Never be afraid to check out a belief or question any ones beliefs.

 

Your openmindedness is remarkable.

 

Welcome to Ex-C.

[LivingLife]

<snip>

 

I still go through phases of almost believing or imagining there is a god and praying and listening to christian music, mostly out of habit I think. And part of me can't let go of the identity of being a christian. But I have no intention of ever going to church again. I went for a friend's baby's dedication recently and almost had a panic attack it brought back so many terrible memories and feelings that I don't ever want to experience again. I think I'm a reluctant atheist, but I'm the happiest and most content I've ever been and I intend to keep it that way.

Nice testimony, the bolded part.

 

I have a rant posted elsewhere that I must compile and edit from multiple posts and post here.

 

Xian musick is the one subtle nuance that will keep you partially deluded. I was a P&W leader in my old church and I know how that music influences people. When I was in the deconversion phase, it was that music that kept me still in that transient state of partial belief. When I stopped and started listening to the radio and secular music again, things changed, bear in mind that in my house, car etc. secular music was verboten most of my life. Now and again my wife likes to listen to a local singer that also has gospel in it, odd now I find that mildly offensive.

[HRDWarrior]

Welcome to the forum. It's interesting how spouses can have such a back and forth relationship with their religion and each other - in our house, it was almost the opposite. My husband was a very liberal christian at best when I met him, whereas I was the hard-core fundy. I drug him (and his family) back to church and got them all involved again (much to my now regret) - yet here I am, the one who's deconverted, while my husband still clings to his own version of christianity. I think if I went back, he'd just as happily go with, although he hates the hypocrisy of the church, he still likes the idea of Jesus. I'm not sure what drives his cling to deism, other than he will find any little thing to support their being a god yet ignore the other side of the argument.

 

Either way, I hope you can find peace with where you are at. For me letting it all go was the first time in my life when I felt truly at peace, so the change has been easy to embrace, although it took many years to finally say I no longer believed in those fairy tales.

[dichotomy]

<snip>

 

Xian musick is the one subtle nuance that will keep you partially deluded. I was a P&W leader in my old church and I know how that music influences people. When I was in the deconversion phase, it was that music that kept me still in that transient state of partial belief. When I stopped and started listening to the radio and secular music again, things changed, bear in mind that in my house, car etc. secular music was verboten most of my life. Now and again my wife likes to listen to a local singer that also has gospel in it, odd now I find that mildly offensive.

 

I really can relate to this. Over the last few years I've suddenly discovered the world of secular music! I think beforehand I must have owned maybe 2 or 3 cd's that weren't xian music and rarely listened to the radio. Now I listen to a variety of music and radio and can't believe I'd missed out on it all for so long. I even went to a Take That concert last year which was the first big gig I'd ever gone to!

 

When I do listen to xian music I often find myself in two states of mind. I start to pine for something that's no more, whilst at the same time becoming gradually enraged by the lyrics, which I have a habit of replacing with my own

[franklyorange]

"Then other phases of deep despair and crying and panicking and thinking people could "see into me" and that god was speaking to them telling them all my deep dark secrets"

 

My experiences with fundamentalism always seemed to create more problems than it solved. And the problems all seemed to disolve when I learned the skill and exercised the courage to think for myself.

 

Looking back at my experience, and all the cruel things christians said to me and did to me, I wish I could all look them up and say..."Thank you" Thank you for being mean, insensitive, cruel, unforgiving, petty, selfish, childish, impish, and just plain mean, because it keeps me from one more time attempting to "make it work". I would step into a church for a wedding and funeral, but that's about it.

[Shyone]

"Then other phases of deep despair and crying and panicking and thinking people could "see into me" and that god was speaking to them telling them all my deep dark secrets"

 

My experiences with fundamentalism always seemed to create more problems than it solved. And the problems all seemed to disolve when I learned the skill and exercised the courage to think for myself.

 

Looking back at my experience, and all the cruel things christians said to me and did to me, I wish I could all look them up and say..."Thank you" Thank you for being mean, insensitive, cruel, unforgiving, petty, selfish, childish, impish, and just plain mean, because it keeps me from one more time attempting to "make it work". I would step into a church for a wedding and funeral, but that's about it.

I didn't have the cruel experiences you did, but that quote at the beginning struck a familiar note. For some weird reason, when my faith evaporated while praying in church, I started to sweat because I thought others would know that I was faking it.

 

It wasn't that I thought they could read my mind; I thought that my insincerety would be so transparent that it would be obvious: Like acting drunk when you're not. You feel like a fool, and drunk people tend to attract attention. But I was stone cold sober.

[TedGresham]

<snip>

 

I still go through phases of almost believing or imagining there is a god and praying and listening to christian music, mostly out of habit I think. And part of me can't let go of the identity of being a christian. But I have no intention of ever going to church again. I went for a friend's baby's dedication recently and almost had a panic attack it brought back so many terrible memories and feelings that I don't ever want to experience again. I think I'm a reluctant atheist, but I'm the happiest and most content I've ever been and I intend to keep it that way.

Nice testimony, the bolded part.

 

I have a rant posted elsewhere that I must compile and edit from multiple posts and post here.

 

Xian musick is the one subtle nuance that will keep you partially deluded. I was a P&W leader in my old church and I know how that music influences people. When I was in the deconversion phase, it was that music that kept me still in that transient state of partial belief. When I stopped and started listening to the radio and secular music again, things changed, bear in mind that in my house, car etc. secular music was verboten most of my life. Now and again my wife likes to listen to a local singer that also has gospel in it, odd now I find that mildly offensive.

 

The music is only the most obvious method of immersion used to keep Christians Christian. Christianity has changed from the "old days" when peasants were ruled directly by the church. Back then they were simply controlled. These days it takes a cultural immersion to keep them. Immersion and psychological manipulation. Most of the latter is not even deliberate, it's just the culture. The "Christian world view" is skewed and strange but so extremely strong it holds people who even hate it.

 

I am at a stage that I struggle to keep from being resentful towards everything within that culture. I live in a town that is so dunked in Christian thinking I feel like I am suffocating. My wife is not a church going every Sunday type but she still hangs on to her Christianity. She said she liked me more before I became an atheist and Buddhist even though back then I was a terribly judgmental person who would chide her for not doing "what Jesus said to do." She lives in fear. It's because she was raised Nazarene and they did such a terrific job making people afraid. She's never gotten past it through all these years. It's this fear that works to keep most Christians locked up in the culture.

 

We in this country who wake up to the realization that there is no creator and turn away from the myths, manipulation and mangled beliefs we held to are forced to live in and around a population that is still stuck in the dark ages. Our choice is to alienate ourselves and be alone or go along to get along and suffer through the constant attitudes, "Praise Jesus"'s, condescending words and attitudes, etc.. Mingling works for some. It does not work for me but I have reasons beyond merely disbelief. I don't know what the answer is other than to try in figure out where we can float in this sea of confusion and just float.

 

I dunno, what yall think?

[Shyone]

Mingling works for some. It does not work for me but I have reasons beyond merely disbelief. I don't know what the answer is other than to try in figure out where we can float in this sea of confusion and just float.

 

I dunno, what yall think?

I used to live in Texas.

 

I moved.

[Deva]

Mingling works for some. It does not work for me but I have reasons beyond merely disbelief. I don't know what the answer is other than to try in figure out where we can float in this sea of confusion and just float.

 

I dunno, what yall think?

 

I vote for alienating myself and being alone. The culture where I live is nowhere as oppressive as where you are though. It isn't slapping me in the face everyday with Jesus. I would still try to distance myself from all of that as much as possible.

 

I found that I can no longer pretend. The "attitude" is also in Buddhism too. I don't care for any form of organized religion and beyond doing the practices at the local dharma center and learning from the Tibetan lamas, I have no intention of letting anyone drag me deeper into participating in it. There is a great deal of pretending, showmanship, fake "spirituality" and super piety, playacting and a lot of typical "church lady" nosy types. These same people don't hesitate to back stab you at first opportunity. I know it from experience. They cannot be honest with themselves, so why should you trust them? Its there same as in church, and it is probably there in any group.

 

When I reflect on the huge amount of work I had to do on myself to extricate myself from this Christian brainwashing, it being such a monumental task I can't blame someone in this culture for not being able to do it. If it is toned down to the extent that the person is not trying to witness to me that's fine. I don't care to get into arguments or discussions. That was one stage and I am pretty much finished with it.

[par4dcourse]

Welcome to the darkside. We have cookies.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Then other phases of deep despair and crying and panicking and thinking people could "see into me" and that god was speaking to them telling them all my deep dark secrets.

 

This is really a common feeling, and is used to make people "'fess up" because they feel so naked and guilty that it shows. I learned towards the end that preachers really couldn't see into me, and even if I had been up to my nose in sin the same hour, if I didn't give them a hint about it, they couldn't tell.

 

Conversely, I once visited a pentecostal service with two really pretty women that were nicely dressed up, and we sat down together. The preacher woman "prophesied" that someone in the meeting had a problem with pornography (OH NO!). This is so common among church men that it is easy to pick on and get a response. But she kept staring right at me. I looked right back into her eyes with confidence and eventually another guy in the service raised his hand, and she responded "I knew it was you, but didn't want to say anything publicly." Yeah right, so you waited until he did it to himself. Phooey! She assumed because I had such fine accompaniment, that I was playing around with them, which I wasn't. (Wish I could have...)

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

I know how you feel. though the reasons I went for other sects was because I was told they were somehow not all the same, that there are different interpretations. Yeah, they are all the same, just with little (coughs petty, meaningless) differences.

 

welcome!

[dichotomy]

Wow, I *go away* for a few days and come back to find loads of responses to my post lol wish I had time to respond to them all now but it's late and I'm off to bed.

 

It is good to know that the "Then other phases of deep despair and crying and panicking and thinking people could "see into me" and that god was speaking to them telling them all my deep dark secrets." thing isn't all that unusual. Its pretty much passed now but it was so awful at the time, that feeling, it lasted, on and off, for years.

[dichotomy]

I am at a stage that I struggle to keep from being resentful towards everything within that culture. I live in a town that is so dunked in Christian thinking I feel like I am suffocating. My wife is not a church going every Sunday type but she still hangs on to her Christianity. She said she liked me more before I became an atheist and Buddhist even though back then I was a terribly judgmental person who would chide her for not doing "what Jesus said to do." She lives in fear. It's because she was raised Nazarene and they did such a terrific job making people afraid. She's never gotten past it through all these years. It's this fear that works to keep most Christians locked up in the culture.

 

I distinctly recall telling my husband that I liked him more before he was an atheist. Wives don't always mean what they say, they tend to say things out of feeling rather than thought. It's also an easy weapon to use when feeling frustrated or annoyed about something - 'you were never like this when you believed' flows so easily even when it's clearly untrue.

 

We in this country who wake up to the realization that there is no creator and turn away from the myths, manipulation and mangled beliefs we held to are forced to live in and around a population that is still stuck in the dark ages. Our choice is to alienate ourselves and be alone or go along to get along and suffer through the constant attitudes, "Praise Jesus"'s, condescending words and attitudes, etc.. Mingling works for some. It does not work for me but I have reasons beyond merely disbelief. I don't know what the answer is other than to try in figure out where we can float in this sea of confusion and just float.

 

I dunno, what yall think?

 

I feel for you, I really do. Leaving xainity for me, has been difficult, but other than the fact that most of my old school friends and current uni friends don't understand what it was like to be *in religion* in the first place I'm not having to deal with what you desrcibe unless I happen to bump into some old church pals. It seems that whilst the majority of people in UK may have some sort of faith or be agnostic they are not too fussed if someone else isn't. That doesn't strike me to be the case where you are. Sorry I don't have any words of wisdom.

[nasura man]

Hey, just be thankful that your husband is also an atheist .. it can be a very lonely path ....

[buffettphan]

Hey, just be thankful that your husband is also an atheist .. it can be a very lonely path ....

 

You must be a fellow nonbeliever in an "unequally yoked" marriage. You are not alone. There are lots of us here.... Welcome to Ex-C.

[decafaholic]

I was AoG myself. I'm always happy to find another, but also sad that someone else suffered their crap-ola! I had the same problem with hearing voices telling me to do things. I thought it was either satan or God at the time.Now I realize it was none of the above.

[dichotomy]

I was AoG myself. I'm always happy to find another, but also sad that someone else suffered their crap-ola! I had the same problem with hearing voices telling me to do things. I thought it was either satan or God at the time.Now I realize it was none of the above.

 

Me too. I went through a phase, (I say phase, more like 18months!) where I genuinely thought that satan and his demons were following me and speaking to me and pestering me. I would be confused and began to think that God had abandoned me, then of course when he *did* speak, I felt like that made it all okay and it confirmed that he *was* a *loving* father... oh the crap. Interestingly within months of leaving this church this pretty much stopped and that was long before I lost my faith. I don't know what was going on, I think quite possuibly I had an over active imagination but sometimes I wonder if there was more to it and my MH was seriously unbalanced as although god speaking to you was expected in the AoG and the HS and speaking in tongues etc was normal, the whole Satan and demons side was less common I think....?