What Kind Of People Actually Do Well By Christianity?

[Vomit Comet]

I honestly believe that if my Christian life hadn't been a disappointing streak of shit, I probably would have stayed in the fold for another decade or five. For example, if God would have given me a "godly wife" by the age of 24 instead of leaving me stewing in headfucked self-repressed virginal angst well past its expiration date, I might have had less reason to grumble and therefore less reason to start nursing whatever doubts I was actively repressing. Well, at the age of 28 I was finally driven to fornicate with a heathen woman in large part to make the hurting stop; I lost my faith within a few months of losing my cherry. At any rate, I came to view the whole "God will provide" thing as a shit sandwich. Hell, at least a shit sandwich isn't completely fucking immaterial. So anyways...

 

I always felt, and still feel, that there were some individuals who got a good deal out of it. Not because Jesus is real, but because... oh, I don't know... it seemed like the system worked for them. I'm thinking of some Golden Boy who ends up marrying the "Perfect Girl" by the age of 22 or so and everything is ideal and he's got nothing to sweat and they've just got sunshine coming out of their asses and so on and so forth. My cousin is kind of like the blue collar version of that. It's like, the system really seems to work for them.

 

Anybody feel me on this?

[dagnarus]

What type of Christianity?

[Vomit Comet]

What type of Christianity?

 

I had in mind the usual fundie shit that most of us endured. But you can extrapolate about [fill in the blank].

[dagnarus]

What type of Christianity?

 

I had in mind the usual fundie shit that most of us endured. But you can extrapolate about [fill in the blank].

 

I was thinking about how the liberal churches, while still annoying, is probably much healthier for people. That said I wasn't in a traditional fundy church, I was in fundie church which was influenced by christian mysticism (not like pentecostalism), basically fundeism but Jesus doesn't just want you absolute obedience, he wants you to die so he can take over. So I guess in that environment the one who does best is the person who can best convince himself that his thoughts are Jesuses, so basically the same as fundeism.

[Jedah]

Easy, people who aren't good at thinking for themselves and like having lots of friends who are just as shallow as themselves.

[Vixentrox]

Easy, people who aren't good at thinking for themselves and like having lots of friends who are just as shallow as themselves.

QFT

[oddbird1963]

I think people who start out in a Religion quite young, whose family is relatively economically and socially stable will do well. At least the probability of thriving in a religious system is higher than someone who starts out on rocky economic and socially marginalized ground or who maybe becomes active in their religion later.

 

That being said, I believe people who have talents and skills that are consistent with those valued by a religion and thus in demand are probably more likely to thrive. In small to mid sized churches if a person can play the piano or sing, they will be highly valued by their churches.

 

I think any situation where a person feels valued and affirmed will make a person likely to stick with their religion.

[Deva]

I always felt, and still feel, that there were some individuals who got a good deal out of it. Not because Jesus is real, but because... oh, I don't know... it seemed like the system worked for them. I'm thinking of some Golden Boy who ends up marrying the "Perfect Girl" by the age of 22 or so and everything is ideal and he's got nothing to sweat and they've just got sunshine coming out of their asses and so on and so forth. My cousin is kind of like the blue collar version of that. It's like, the system really seems to work for them.

 

Anybody feel me on this?

 

I think you bring up a good point. The naturally more beautiful, outgoing types who are favored in this society more than likely don't need to do deep questioning. If things are going very well for them, they would be unlikely to need to do the real deep investigation.

 

I am sure there are exceptionally beautiful folks who have a good education who just go along with the Christian thing. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

[Vigile]

IMO the only people it helps are those who don't think about it too much or take it too seriously. It may give them some peace of mind. These are shallow people IMO, but whatever.

 

I honestly believe that if my Christian life hadn't been a disappointing streak of shit,

 

It's the nature of the religion, not a bad hand of cards you were dealt.

 

For example, if God would have given me a "godly wife" by the age of 24 instead of leaving me stewing in headfucked self-repressed virginal angst well past its expiration date, I might have had less reason to grumble and therefore less reason to start nursing whatever doubts I was actively repressing.

 

My grandfather, one of the coolest guys I ever knew, married his youthful sweetheart and raised a happy, successful family, was an honest, well loved business man and human being. Even so, my cousins and I caught him sneaking peeks at porn on more than one occasion. It's my best guess that he suffered hidden guilt and frustration due to the poison fed to him in church every Sunday.

 

Honestly, irregardless of the difficulties of deconversion I am thoroughly glad that I am able to live with a mind freed from that sickness that depressed me, frustrated me, kept me lingering in guilt, and that twisted my world view. I can't imagine that a freed mind is somehow worse off than one wrapped in chains and superstition.

 

Moreover, if someone is happier in a sect that believes people are going to hell and even deserve to do so I have almost zero respect for that person.

[seeking26]

I think people who start out in a Religion quite young, whose family is relatively economically and socially stable will do well. At least the probability of thriving in a religious system is higher than someone who starts out on rocky economic and socially marginalized ground or who maybe becomes active in their religion later.

 

That being said, I believe people who have talents and skills that are consistent with those valued by a religion and thus in demand are probably more likely to thrive. In small to mid sized churches if a person can play the piano or sing, they will be highly valued by their churches.

 

I think any situation where a person feels valued and affirmed will make a person likely to stick with their religion.

 

 

Interesting. The home I grew up in was not exactly financially stable. My father was disabled, my mom didn't work because she felt it was God's will to be at home homeschooling my brother and I, We got foodstamps and wore used clothes to get by. I could sing, play the piano, play guitar, violin, or whatever other musical instrument was available to use, music was my thing, but I was not at all outgoing. Christianity may value people with talent but they seem to most appreciate those who are "leaders" because of that I tended to be pushed aside in favor of less talented people who were more outgoing or who came from families with more money. Maybe though, if I had felt valued, I might have stuck around for longer than I did.

 

One of the few people I know who does well by Christianity is my in-laws pastor. He isn't all about morality or rules or a literal Bible. He is a part of this motorcycle group when he isn't in church and it's not that he's trying to be cool, motorcycles are just his hobby, it seems that for him, Christianity is more about helping people and having compassion on them like Jesus did. He is one of the few Christians who I still have respect for.

[HRDWarrior]

IMO, the only people I see truly benefiting from religion are those who would need the fear of consequences to keep them as decent human beings, those who are so lonely they are anti-social outside those circles, and those with a distinct need for an afterlife.

 

Beyond those, I really don't see typical fundy chrisitianity being useful to anyone. It seems capable of doing a lot more harm than good. Liberal christianity may have a wider group that it benefits and may be less harmful, but overall, I think people would be better off without the fake do-good feelings they get from warming a bench and other such BS.

[redlemon]

In my experience, when talking about fundie Christians, most people who benefit are the ones who want to feel better then others. They've had a bad life, others look down on them, whatever, and they use that Christian card to justify to themselves about how much better they are. They want to be superior in some way or another and instead of going down other roads, they use religion. They use religion to justify their own bigotry and put themselves up on a pedestal and say, "Look how right I am and wrong you are!!!"

[Moxie]

The people who benefit from religion are those who make money from it. Most, if not all church leaders do not really believe everything they spout from the pulpit. However, they will do what it takes to get the dough.

[florduh]

Sentinel read my mind before I got a chance to post.

[OpheliaGinger]

Golden boy ain't so golden. Mr. or Ms. (or Mrs.) perfect has a seedy dark side.

[Deva]

The people who benefit from religion are those who make money from it. Most, if not all church leaders do not really believe everything they spout from the pulpit. However, they will do what it takes to get the dough.

 

I think some people do genuinely derive some comfort and inspiration from religion.

[mwc]

I think some people do genuinely derive some comfort and inspiration from religion.

My (now dead) grandma. Man did she love the religion. It gave her that "inner peace" shit. She'd sit in her house, alone, playing the organ and singing the "jesus" songs for hours sometimes. Then she'd sit and listen to the "jesus" songs. When not doing that she watched the news (no televangelists for her...they were all cons). Then church, church, church. For a Lutheran she seemed almost Catholic...almost (they weren't really saved). When she got too sick to leave her house the pastor was lurking visiting most every day. She loved that. I don't think the church got shit in the will. Too bad.

 

mwc

[godlessgrrl]

What Sentinel said.

 

The first thing that sprang to mind when I read this thread title was folks who benefit financially from Xianity. Folks like megachurch pastors and televangelists and popes. Hell, the pope is wallowing in the pilfered wealth of 10 or more centuries. And dangit, wasn't there some late medieval pope who remarked how what a profitable venture xianity had been for him? Probably some damn Medici or something... I can't find the quote for the life of me though. Somebody post it, if you've got it.

 

It also occurs to me that we all benefit a little bit when one of those "I'd be a rapist and murderer if I didn't have Jesus" types converts. There's enough people out there that insist that they'd go off on some wanton orgy of remorseless destruction if they woke up one day and knew there wasn't any god - frankly I'd rather such people remain firmly ensconced in their religious delusions.

[RankStranger]

Yes, some people definitely benefit from christianity. And seeings how I usually view personalities through the Meyers-Briggs lens, I'll just say that people with an SJ temperament NEED rules, authority, tradition, etc. for their sense of stability- and christianity has evolved to provide just that.

 

And IMO, that's why there are so many NF and NT types on this site. We don't really cotton to authority or need arbitrary rules laid out for us.

 

But some people just can't make sense of the world without them.

[Shyone]

Yes, some people definitely benefit from christianity. And seeings how I usually view personalities through the Meyers-Briggs lens, I'll just say that people with an SJ temperament NEED rules, authority, tradition, etc. for their sense of stability- and christianity has evolved to provide just that.

 

And IMO, that's why there are so many NF and NT types on this site. We don't really cotton to authority or need arbitrary rules laid out for us.

 

But some people just can't make sense of the world without them.

Playing Devil's Advocate, perhaps they would say we need the rules, authority and tradition provided by religion, and as proof they would offer...

 

Uh, lies, distortions, prejudices and myths.

 

Hmmm.

[Vendredie]

The kind who need assurance that they're better than anyone else. Even if they're already overachievers. The kids who bitch at me at school for not being Xtian are all the straight-A types.

[Shyone]

The kind who need assurance that they're better than anyone else. Even if they're already overachievers. The kids who bitch at me at school for not being Xtian are all the straight-A types.

Conformist, yes. Studious, yes. Overachiever, I suppose. But the product of the conformist Christian mindset is one that has to believe things that are nonsensical. If it weren't socially acceptable, these people would be marginalized as goofy believers in UFOs, ESP and the paranormal.

 

If they're really smart, they would figure out that Christianity is based on myths, legends and lies.

[Vendredie]

The kind who need assurance that they're better than anyone else. Even if they're already overachievers. The kids who bitch at me at school for not being Xtian are all the straight-A types.

Conformist, yes. Studious, yes. Overachiever, I suppose. But the product of the conformist Christian mindset is one that has to believe things that are nonsensical. If it weren't socially acceptable, these people would be marginalized as goofy believers in UFOs, ESP and the paranormal.

 

If they're really smart, they would figure out that Christianity is based on myths, legends and lies.

Oddly enough, many (though definitely not all) of the overachiever types don't think for themselves that much. It's odd how they do so well in school but are just... so stupid.

[ShackledNoMore]

I can think of about 4 categories, three that are listed in the poll and one that is not.

 

I voted "complete assholes," "manipulators and hustlers," and "complete rock bottom fuck-ups with nothing to lose. 'Try Jesus!'"

 

I think that manipulators and hustlers could really fall into two (or maybe even three) categories. There's the personal level manipulators and hustlers: your parents, your pastor, and various other figures who use xianity as a tool to try to mold you with. There's the small time hustlers who might benefit from exploiting the fact that you are an xian: business owners who draw in more business by putting a fish on their sign, homeless who have discovered that they can eek out slightly more charity from people by using the name of Jeebus, people who realize better benefits and opportunities by networking as xians, as well as people who want to be elected to public office. I think that there is a also third category of movers and shakers that have artfully used xianity to craft exploits for an even greater payoff of power and/or wealth.

 

I also voted for "complete rock bottom fuck-ups." These are the people who usually have the most dramatic conversion experiences. Yes, xianity most certainly does provide them a get out of jail free card with an easy out, but I'm already unsure whether I should have voted for that or not. On one hand, it was a lifeline of sorts, on the other, they have not, nor will they, do the tough work of really facing and working on the issues they need to. Were they even equipped to do so? It's a bit of a tough one.

 

A couple of categories could be rolled up into the "idiot" super-category. Prime exploitable material. I don't see where they benefit.

 

"The congenitally cheery." I think it's more like a certain subset of xians appear congenitally cheery as a function of their own personalities combined with the type of xian conditioning they happened to have received. I do not see them as beneficiaries. Perpetual plastic-like cheer is artificial and a facade and its victim suffers.

 

I also did not vote for "somebody who really wants to believe in life after death," just because looming just in the background of "blessed assurance, jesus is mine, oh what a foretaste of glory divine" are the flames of hell, for which all who put the wrong spin on xianity as well as the rest of the world is subject to. Certainly xians who fear death and cling to the idea of an afterlife will have planted the belief that they are the elect deep within their psyche and fostered and nurtured it, and seriously repressed any thoughts to the contrary, but I think that repressed deeply in the subconscious there is the fact that there is no basis for their comforting belief, or perhaps the question of whether they picked the right savior, or right version of the savior, to keep them out of the flames. So, comforting as it may be to them to believe that they won't really die, I'm not sure I can call it a benefit. Besides, by clinging to the hope of an afterlife that doesn't exist, you cheapen your own life, relegating it to a status of fleeting and irrelevant except as a staging area to get you to the next life, instead of truly living the life you have.

[wt-hell?!]

When I was younger, I always had this strange feeling that some people's personalities were just not made for christianity. And others are obviously more inclined and gullible to the brainwashing.