My Dad Thinks I'm Broken Without His Religion

[Big E]

My relationship with my dad has always has been a bit strained. He is a dedicated Catholic, as for myself I don't believe in anything anymore. When I was 16 I refused to undergo the sacrament of confirmation, mainly because I knew it was one huge waste of time and I knew I would have trouble faking it. At the time I told him that I have freedom of religion in this country and I shouldn't be forced to go to church. He gone ballistic on me stating that there is no such thing as freedom of religion. Those words pretty much haunt me to this day as it sums of his perspective on life. I never gone to confirmation classes, but I was still forced to go to church every sunday when I was living under his roof.

 

I can't say religion ever took a firm hold of me. Even as a very young child I always took things apart and see how the work on the inside. Where others simply accept that things work, I want to know why it works. This kind of thinking is incompatible with faith. As much as I can try I can't accept something as true without thinking. I was born this way and it is not in my nature.

 

Another aspect of the relationship, which probably did more damage to me emotionally than forced religion is his tendency to dismiss all my fears, concerns and insights. Whatever observations I make are automatically invalid. Whatever fears I had of the world as a child I had to learn too to keep to myself. I often asked my dad if he trusted me. He always responded "It is not a question of trust.", which never answered my question and I told him "Then I assume the answer is no." to which he would not reply. During his frequent religious lectures he gave me as a child he stated that he loves me and talks about me all the time at work, I could never quite believe him because the religious lectures are always more about how much he was disappointed in me and my grades at school, my behavior and how I don't seem to believe enough to his liking. He spoke of unconditional love, but his love was always conditional in my opinion. Most of the time he was tearing me down bit by bit either overtly or by silence. In fact he has faulted me before for my excessive need of approval. I could never quite understand the contradictions. The best explanation is that he is supposed to point out all my faults, but faith in Jesus, a non existent entity, is supposed to be my only source of approval.

 

This upbringing along with genetics has brought upon me a combination of depression, anxiety, and avoidant personality disorder. In general I cannot enjoy relationships with people due to the overwhelming lack of past positive relations.

 

After I moved out the situation improved to a truce. I've been on my own for the past 11 years. Maybe he could deal with me more as adult than a child, but he won't accept the validity of my thoughts or observations. The religion took hold on both my sisters. Both are model christians. I am the black sheep that never took to it.

 

I thought things were stable until recently. I have been unemployed for quite some time. He invited me out to eat at a restaurant, little did I know that it was going to be a conversion attempt. He told me of my uncle's recent suicide attempt, asked me why I don't go to church anymore. I didn't want to answer because it would only offend him. Told him that I never liked going to church. Then he told me it simply must not be important to me and life will be always incomplete without Christianity. Going to church Sunday and prayer will fix everything that is wrong in my life and help me find a job. I did feel quite insulted over the fact that he could infer that my unemployment is a result of my lack of faith. I think it is just another way for him to deflect the blame on me. He gave me a copy of "A purpose driven life" and told me he hoped I would read it. It was complete with some notes for me.

 

The notes highlighted indicated how my pride and self sufficiency are really bad things and how god only favors people who are weak. I didn't know how what little self esteem I have offended god. He also indicated that I must have "a personality quirk, mental, or emotional illness" He then went on to highlight the original sin of adam and how any love, meaning, purpose, direction, fulfillment, truth, self worth, or answers could only come front total faith in god. By now I know all of this is bunk, but it shows how completely inadequate a person I am in his eyes.

 

Overall from the experience, I feel quite violated. Whenever he feels he's helping me spiritually he is actually hurting me. I've confronted him about it before when I was in college, but all he says is "If blaming me makes you feel happy...". He will never acknowledge that he ever hurt me or at least partially responsible for my chronic shyness and distrust which he is attributing in part simply to my lack of faith.

 

I don't know if he going to start insisting that I go to church every Sunday again. Worse yet, what if unemployment runs out? If he starts giving me money I become dependent on him he'll start making demands. That would be the end of my world, but in his eyes it would be divine action from god allowing him to be able to fix me.

 

Has anyone else have a parent like this? Do love my dad, but this relationship is not healthy.

[ContraBardus]

Yeah. I know exactly what you mean. This sounds like my mother.

 

You're right. It is unhealthy.

 

Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your perspective, the problem is not on your end.

 

I've been out of my house for about 18 years now. I don't have a high paying job, and my mother does love me.

 

She also doesn't trust me, and never really has. Some of that stems from the fact that I'm male. Some of it has more to do with the fact that I'm not Christian.

 

She hasn't abandoned me, and we still interact a lot of the time.

 

She wouldn't dare speak to me about Jesus anymore though. I stopped caring about offending her 'religious sensibilities'. It led to some nasty conversations, she cried, screamed, and even tried slapping me around a little.

 

I remained calm, pressed the weaknesses of her arguments, and called her out for her dirty apologetic tactics, such as guilt riding, logical fallacies, and lack of supportive evidence, as well as contradicting existing evidence for no good reason.

 

She broke first. It wasn't fun, but she will not speak to me about God or Jesus anymore. If the subject comes up, she leaves, clams up, or shies away.

 

My other family still prods a bit, my uncles and aunts sometimes take a shot at me when we get together. It never gets heated though, I won't let it go that far, and I don't see them often enough that they can keep pressing me about it.

 

Mom won't talk about God with me anymore. She's still a devoted Catholic, and I know she 'prays' for me. She'll even say things to that effect.

 

I'll usually respond with "Prayer is just a way to do nothing and still think you're helping." or "Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."

 

You've got several options, a mixture of these is likely to be effective. One, ignore it, just nod like a bobblehead and make clear that you're not really listening or paying attention when the subject comes up. If it happens on the phone, hang up, and call back, repeat as many times as Jesus enters the conversation until the other party gets the hint.

 

Educate yourself. You've basically entered an ideological battle. You need weapons, learn about the arguments against Christianity, but more importantly, learn the arguments -for- it, and where the faults in those arguments are. Always remember Sun Tsu, "Know yourself and -know your enemy- and you need not fear the outcome of a thousand battles." The art of war is an excellent book, I suggest reading it. As a philosophy it can be applied to much more than just physical conflict.

 

Don't give in. He cannot force you to believe in somethng, even if he can force you to attend services. You cannot make yourself believe in something you know is not true just by force of willpower. No one believes in anything because they 'want' to. Sufficient evidence or convincing argument is required to alter a belief in that manner. It is not something you 'choose to accept'.

 

Many Christians do not understand this concept. I very much wished to believe in Jesus at one point in my life. While that is no longer the case, it is not something that was decided by 'just wanting to'. The evidence simply contradicted the belief, and the arguments against it were convincing. I could not unthink my conclusions, and the evidence against it was not erased.

 

I cannot honestly believe in Jesus again, even if I desired to hold such a belief.

 

Know that the end result is likely one of two things. The believer will stop talking to you about Jesus, or the believer will stop talking to you altogether.

 

Such is the cruel nature of religion. It's disgusting to be sure, but if you're looking to fight a battle, you must accept the possibility that you might lose. There is no 'victory' without risk, and sometimes when you risk you lose.

 

Tread carefully my friend. It is not something that can be won in a day, or in a single argument. You may have to accept something you do not like, and may even lose the relationship with your father.

 

I had to make some hard decisions in my relationship with my mother. I chose honesty, and being firm with my own beliefs. I refused to sit and listen to her slander, belittle, and rail against my beliefs unchallenged when there was so much wrong and so much hypocrisy in her own.

 

I could not just sit idly by and ignore it. Not even for the sake of her feelings. I did not like it, it was not fun. Still, I have a measure of peace and stability in my interactions with her now. In my case it worked out for the best.

 

I wish you luck, but think carefully about how much you're willing to give up, what you're willing to risk, and prepare yourself for what is to come as best you can before moving forward.

 

I suggest at the very least, that you do quite a bit of reading and educate yourself on the subject, not only the Atheists perspective, the natural world, and the arguments against Jesus as God, but also the arguments for him, and what's wrong with those arguments. Be critical of both sides, and come to the best conclusions.

 

You probably already know what his arguments are, what tactics he'll use, and how he'll react. Still, you should do your best to be ready for any surprises, and hope that they fall in your favor if they happen.

 

It's not the Christians I hate, but the ignorance, damage, and suffering caused by their brainwashing. They believe it makes them happy, they believe it makes them better.

 

They don't know any better, and they've been trained from birth in most cases to not accept anything else. The concept that they might be wrong, that they have been lied too, led astray, and are completely delusional is totally alien to them.

 

Your 'enemy' such as it were, may never be able to realize that they have been defeated, even if they are utterly destroyed. Christians often cannot understand that someone can be happy, lead a fulfilling life, or not be utterly lost and hopeless, a void of depression and anxiety without their beliefs. They often literally cannot accept what it might be like to not think their God is real. The idea can be so terrifying and all consuming that they'd rather die than exist without the concept of their watchful loving God.

 

Good luck. Your plight is the spiritual equivalent of invading the Japanese home Islands. They fully intend to defend it to the last man.

 

Unless you've got an A-bomb or two hidden up your sleeve, it's going to be a long hard battle that it may be better to avoid if at all possible.

[Franko47]

He's living in denial, Big, and using religion as a buffer zone.

 

 

I had problems with my father as well growing up, but not quite like yours. There may come a time when he may change his tune, but that doesn't make the here and now go any better.

 

 

I get the impression though that he still cares about you. I guess he feels that if you join a church or something that it will fix your life or resolve his own "sins" over his relationship with you. It's tricky, when it comes to dads. I also know how hard it is; I can take criticism from just about anybody, but when it's my father, I just go all weird.

 

If you end up needing his help, you might have to compromise a little. With family it's often a good idea to salvage what we can, and accept that the rest just "is".

 

Good luck.

[redlemon]

I don't have much to say, but your words hauntingly echo my own father and mother. I was never good enough for them, no matter what I did. Then, I moved out, got married, and live a decent middle class life (or at least as stable and decent as can be in this economy). Now all of a sudden, my father is enraged at me for being better off then he is and now I'm no longer good enough because I'm a snob.

 

 

Overall from the experience, I feel quite violated. Whenever he feels he's helping me spiritually he is actually hurting me. I've confronted him about it before when I was in college, but all he says is "If blaming me makes you feel happy...". He will never acknowledge that he ever hurt me or at least partially responsible for my chronic shyness and distrust which he is attributing in part simply to my lack of faith.

An important thing to remember is that you can't make him understand. You can't make him acknowledge that he's hurt you, because he just has convinced himself that he's perfectly in the right and you're wrong. It comes down to a war of religious perspectives, and no one can ever satisfactorily win that. You can't change what other people do or think. You can only modify your own behavior. My advice would be to stay as civil as possible and just don't give in. And try not to become financially dependent on him at all costs. That just seems like a trainwreck waiting to happen.

[godlessgrrl]

Has anyone else have a parent like this?

 

Yes.

 

The dynamic between myself and my mother was very similar in some ways, though religion didn't enter into it until I was well into my teens, and I will add that over the years as she has aged she has mellowed and become more tolerant.

 

That said, I have been the Bad Daughter™ for years, for not living up to my duty to fulfill my mother's dreams. I am simply not a person my family really wanted or liked, and I never will be. That role is instead fulfilled by my younger, prettier, more successful sister - i.e., the Good Daughter™. And yes, mom does in fact use those labels on us to this day.

 

Some parents just simply can't live with the fact that their children aren't extensions of themselves. And sadly, some parents just really don't love their children. They'd probably never admit it - would you want to admit you didn't love your own kids? - but you can tell how someone really feels by looking at how they treat you. If they treat you like shit, it's because they really just don't feel you're worth much.

 

And you're right, it's not healthy.

 

What saved my relationship with my parents was getting away from them and limiting contact. I'm also very, very selective now about what I talk to them about, because I've learned over the years that if mom finds something that is a potential vulnerable spot for me, she'll use it to manipulate me later. So I keep it simple, polite, cordial, and rather shallow. There are strong family ties there, but no real intimacy.

 

You won't ever change your dad. You can't make him love you for who you are, either. Best you can do is realize you're fine the way you are and that if he doesn't want to accept you as his son, even if he doesn't understand you, then it's his loss whether he knows it or not. You might have to cut contact for awhile, or limit it to things like email only, or refuse to talk about certain issues. It's up to you to figure out what kind of relationship you want to have, and what kind of relationship you think is actually possible.

 

Good luck, in any case.

[JustinBaker]

I'll just say that this sounds an awful lot like my own dad. I hear ya buddy.

[qec]

First off it sounds like your dad has really serious boundary issues with you.

 

Overall from the experience, I feel quite violated. Whenever he feels he's helping me spiritually he is actually hurting me. I've confronted him about it before when I was in college, but all he says is "If blaming me makes you feel happy...". He will never acknowledge that he ever hurt me or at least partially responsible for my chronic shyness and distrust which he is attributing in part simply to my lack of faith.

 

The truth is that your dad is blaming you and he is projecting that blame onto you during his absurd self righteous religious tangents.

 

 

 

Has anyone else have a parent like this? Do love my dad, but this relationship is not healthy.

 

 

I have, and they where way worse with boundaries than your own father. The best way to counteract this is to realize that A. It's never your fault that he violates your boundaries unless you blowup at him or lose self control (avoid doing this if at all possible). and B. Be as opaque with your personal business as is practically possible. This will give you power over them.

 

Lastly, pay real close attention to gwenmead's advice because it's right on the money.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Greetings, Big E.

 

I feel for you, as my relationship with my father hasn't been very good either. I did take to religion myself, but even as a fellow believer, I found it difficult to talk to my narrow-minded father. Now that I've lost my faith, it would probably be even more difficult to talk to him if he knew. I imagine that someday he'll find out.

 

He invited me out to eat at a restaurant, little did I know that it was going to be a conversion attempt. He told me of my uncle's recent suicide attempt, asked me why I don't go to church anymore. I didn't want to answer because it would only offend him. Told him that I never liked going to church. Then he told me it simply must not be important to me and life will be always incomplete without Christianity.

 

I'm not sure whether or not it's a good idea in your situation to explain yourself thoroughly. After all, I haven't come out as a nonbeliever to my father yet (I just avoid the subject as much as possible).

 

However, given that your father knows that you don't believe, it seems to me that not really explaining your position out of fear of offending him will only fuel his belief that you don't have valid reasons for not being a christian. In turn, he would likely think that you're just stubborn.

 

I have to think that if my father does find out and raises the issue, I would probably make an attempt to explain it. He's narrow-minded and probably wouldn't fully comprehend, but at least he would know that I hadn't just haphazardly discarded the christian way of life in favor of a life of sin and selfishness.

 

Whenever he feels he's helping me spiritually he is actually hurting me. I've confronted him about it before when I was in college, but all he says is "If blaming me makes you feel happy...".

 

You could actually throw that very same comment back at him: "Well, if blaming me makes you happy...!" After all, it sounds like he is blaming you.

 

Anyway, sorry I couldn't be of much help. But good luck....

[Kurari]

My mother was similar, though it wasn't over religion.

 

I second what Gwenmead said entirely. You're not alone. A lot of us were sadly deprived of having good parents. I lost something precious and irreplaceable with my mother. I'm never going to have a "mom". I loved her very much too, but if they aren't decent people, then that is the end.

 

It hurts like having a limb sawn off without anesthetic to have to walk away from your parents, but your dad is gone. He himself is broken, and his constant complaints about you and extreme religious clinging are due to the fact he is a failure at life and not mature enough to take responsibility for himself. My mom was like that too.

 

Here's a major life lesson that I've learned: Love is unconditional, life isn't.

 

And since your dad will not function in this relationship, I would keep my distance or cut him off entirely. You can find healthier family elsewhere.

[FreeLily]

My mom is like this. I love her dearly; she is an intelligent and interesting woman and I would love to have an adult relationship with her. It is extremely unlikely that will ever happen.

 

I am 41; I deconverted in my mid-twenties and danced around it with my parents for a long time before finally "coming out" last year. Even though it had been obvious for more than a decade that I was neither proclaiming nor practicing Christianity. they chose to deny the obvious. They are as stunned, shocked, and saddened as they would have been then, or at any point in between.

 

They don't think in "real" time, they think in "God" time which is unpredictable and variable. My mom still makes ambush conversion attempts, which are actually less painful than her subtle, weekly jabs at everything she perceives to be wrong with my life. Because I am so not a poster child for dysfunction, this is difficult. But she can pull it off.

 

I agree with Quid that you should be mindful of boundaries. And please, if in ANY way possible, do NOT accept money from your dad. You are correct, it will make you dependent upon him, and you cannot have that right now if you hope to keep the boundaries clear. Set them now, because it's not likely to get easier with time.

 

Good luck!