Why Does Idol Worship Get A Bad Rap?

[Neon Genesis]

Why does the bible seem to hate idol worship more so than other religions? It just seems like half of the writings of the prophets are about the evils of idol worship but it's never really explained what's so evil about it. When I read the entire bible and read through the prophets' writings, I read the parts where they accused the idols of being inferior to Yahweh and being unable to answer any prayers and thinking to myself that ironically atheists could make the same case against Yahweh. In her book A History of God, Karen Armstrong suggested that the Isrealites hated idol worship so much because it reminds them too much of their own god and are afraid of admitting that their god is not that different from the pagan gods. Why do you think idol worship seems to be hated the most in the bible and do you personally worship any idols? What is it about idols that you prefer over Yahweh?

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

It may be because their gods are real. Like with science, statues actually exist. You aren't supposed to believe in reality you know....

[Midnight-mindwanderings]

What I do probably would count as idol worship to a christian (in that I have idols) but I'd argue that what they do with crosses and saints and whatnot is more worship of an object than what I do.

 

Something about Christianity (and the other monotheist religions I suppose) is they have tried very hard to create a divide between the physical and the 'spiritual' (or mental) aspects of humanity. Thus sexuality is made to be disgusting in favor of devotion to god - mental orgasms of faith. The natural world is looked down upon in favor of a supernatural world and afterlife. Its seen as virtuous to abstain from food, to live in discomfort, even to die. An idol is a symbol of something real, and its physical connection to the pagan is seen as being a weakness at best.

 

So my theory is idol worship is connected to the idea that the physical world is sufficient for spiritual completion. Because the whole basis of Yahweh is that the physical world is corrupt, evil and deceptive, its irreconcilable to idolatry. Idolatry come so naturally to humans, its also a way to assert their superiority to denounce it.

 

But honestly statues, paintings and the like are just as much a part of christianity as they are a part of the religions of the ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans. The same motifs can be seen, the same feelings of devotion and awe are inspired in their worshipers. So in that way I agree with Karen Armstrong, they hate seeing these other gods doing the same things as their god who is supposed to be far superior.

 

I seem to recall something about this from when I was a Christian. I heard the connection made between idolatry and human sacrifice and that is what the Israelites truly hated. I don't think there is much evidence for that however, either scriptural or historical

[oddbird1963]

I believe, at first, it was exclusive worship of Yahweh that was enforced.

 

Then as the theology of the Israelites changed, the idea of one monotheistic god came into view what was not representative of some singular force of nature such as thunder, the sun, the moon or the forest. The god of the Israelites was in control of all of those forces.

 

To enforce this notion, the idea of idol worship was condemned and mocked.

 

That's my understanding of it, anyway.

[NotBlinded]

Since idol worship is the worship of symbols as being the real thing, they are very much guilty of doing that. They may not be actual material images (because material is bad as midnight said), but mental idols are still very much idols. In both cases the symbol is mistaken for what is real. They just moved the idol into the mind instead of having it out in the open.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I find it interesting that in the OT, god makes bold proclamations about being clearly different than dead idols that people carve from wood and tack down. He proclaims his ability to create everything and tell the future before it happens. Yet today, how is he behaving any differently than the idols he mocks? (Yes, I know, he never did behave differently).

 

Another interesting point is that in the Bible, both OT and NT, the reason that people put faith in their god was because of the miracles. Yet today, they say that overt miracles would clash with faith, so god doesn't do them. *BZZZZT* Thanks for playing...

[Deva]

How ironic that nowadays the Bible is itself an idol? Honestly, it took me years to figure that out.

[oddbird1963]

My Philosopy of Religion professor back in the seminary days defined idolatry as "Setting up something as Ultimate which is Pentultimate." In other words, making into god something that is not worthy.

 

For some reason, worshiping before graven images is seen as such a thing.

[OnceConvinced]

Because the bible God is very insecure, with a delicate ego. He is narcissistic and can't handle the thought of any other God, false or not, being worshiped. He is threatened by these other Gods. Probably they're more powerful than him or at least just as powerful. Which makes sense really. Praying to a piece of wood or rock achieves the same results as praying to Bible God. Test it out if you don't believe me. Before going out somewhere in your car pray for a safe trip to the idol. Next day pray for a safe trip to God. Next day the idol, next day God. If you get to the end of 100 days with safe trips, half of them you can thank the idol for.

[The-Captain]

Monotheism 101. Any thought or feeling or action not directed towards God is sinful. Pursuit of knowledge, sex and physical enjoyment, artistic appreciation of human existence, all these are suspect for the same reason idolatry is. The man behind the curtain demands every bit of you.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

I find it interesting that in the OT, god makes bold proclamations about being clearly different than dead idols that people carve from wood and tack down. He proclaims his ability to create everything and tell the future before it happens. Yet today, how is he behaving any differently than the idols he mocks? (Yes, I know, he never did behave differently).

 

Another interesting point is that in the Bible, both OT and NT, the reason that people put faith in their god was because of the miracles. Yet today, they say that overt miracles would clash with faith, so god doesn't do them. *BZZZZT* Thanks for playing...

Well its true, god doesnt bring miracles, because Jesus gave that job to his followers as a sign of who they are. They go around making miracles.

[Tabula Rasa]

Why does the bible seem to hate idol worship more so than other religions? It just seems like half of the writings of the prophets are about the evils of idol worship but it's never really explained what's so evil about it. When I read the entire bible and read through the prophets' writings, I read the parts where they accused the idols of being inferior to Yahweh and being unable to answer any prayers and thinking to myself that ironically atheists could make the same case against Yahweh. In her book A History of God, Karen Armstrong suggested that the Isrealites hated idol worship so much because it reminds them too much of their own god and are afraid of admitting that their god is not that different from the pagan gods. Why do you think idol worship seems to be hated the most in the bible and do you personally worship any idols? What is it about idols that you prefer over Yahweh?

 

Neon, if I remember correctly from the documentary film of A History of God, Armstrong, or one of the other people in it, talk about the idea that since Yahweh was transcendent, any graven images, even of him would be wrong. The "pagan" gods were immanent , that is they existed side by side with the forces of nature, etc they controlled(Rain, love, etc). Yahweh was supposed to be be beyond creation, so the idea of representing the divine by anything that existed in the natural world was considered blasphemous.

 

And the "pagans" didn't actually worship the idols as we've been led to believe, but an idol was for the purpose of focusing one's mind on prayer to the particular god.

 

Here's a link to the documentary:A History of God

[oddbird1963]

Thanks for posting that link, Tabula Rasa! I really enjoyed Karen Armstrong's books "Great Transformaations" and "A History of God." For some reason, I didn't realize there was a documentary film based on "A History of God."

 

I am going to start watching it now!

[dagnarus]

From reading the commandment again, it seems like a repeat of you shall have no God before me. The problem wasn't the graven image as such but the fact that people were worshiping other Gods. This would be supported by Deuteronomy 4 adding that you should not worship the Sun and Moon in the sky, to the standard anti idolatry commandment. Also their is the fact that even in there own worship they had graven images.

 

Exodus 25:18"You shall make two cherubim of gold, make them of hammered work at the two ends of the mercy seat.

 

Cherubim would probably count as beings in heaven.

 

My thought is that idols are pretty much synonymous with the worship of other Gods, which was something which they couldn't stand. It could very well be as simple as, much like the idols represented a physichal representation for worshippers, they also provided a physichal representation of pagan Gods which the Hebrews could hate and set out to destroy.

[PandaPirate]

How ironic that nowadays the Bible is itself an idol? Honestly, it took me years to figure that out.

 

Yes, Christians worship the Word of God more than the God himself. The God with a multiple personality disorder who needs to have his ego fed by being worshipped.

[ElrondHubbard]

I believe, at first, it was exclusive worship of Yahweh that was enforced.

 

Then as the theology of the Israelites changed, the idea of one monotheistic god came into view what was not representative of some singular force of nature such as thunder, the sun, the moon or the forest. The god of the Israelites was in control of all of those forces.

 

To enforce this notion, the idea of idol worship was condemned and mocked.

 

That's my understanding of it, anyway.

 

I've had a couple different professors explain it that way, I think that's a pretty valid interpretation. I think issues of nationalism come into play, as well; remaining separate as a people & displaying devotion to god were intrinsically linked, and I think you have to look at both in trying to make sense of OT writings. When you're a bunch of desert nomads constantly coming into conflict with other desert nomads, group cohesion is essential to your survival. Therefore, worshiping false idols (i.e. foreign gods) undermines the community both spiritually and politically.

[lunaticheathen]

There's a lot of theories as to why this is. Some of them try to make out that the Israelites were soooo "advanced" to reject any images of their god, to move beyond the physical manifestations. I cry bullshit, advanced people wouldn't commit genocide just for having art. Maybe as nomads, dragging about images just wasn't convenient.

One thing that a professor told me (who is also a rabbi) is that many MANY laws laid down for the Jews were made simply to separate themselves from "those lowly pagans." No tattoos, that's what pagans do. No shaving, that's what pagans do. No images, that's what pagans do. They were "chosen", they were the "good example", they had to follow the rules that made them a "light upon the hill."

I think the observation by Midnight is also something to consider. Immanent, "local" deities that are accessible, and "present" in some form or another, whether through listen natural forces or an image is serious competition to an abstract, removed god.

And Deva expressed the EXACT thought I've had many times, the Bible certainly IS their idol. It makes sense though, remove all tangible, accessible means to connect with their deity, they'd cling to anything - this time, "his word."

[ElrondHubbard]

Maybe as nomads, dragging about images just wasn't convenient.

 

Yeah, but they dragged around the Ark of the Covenant...

[Deva]

Why do you think idol worship seems to be hated the most in the bible and do you personally worship any idols? What is it about idols that you prefer over Yahweh?

 

I think the answer to the first question has something to do with the Jewish people trying to make their God different from all the other deities around at the time. The story of the golden calf shows how difficult this notion was for people at the time. They were still worshiping idols at the drop of a hat. This idea that God cannot be represented by an image is also in Islam, of course.

 

Interesting that Christians were soon venerating icons and the relics of saints, despite this idea of no idol worship. It was only with the reformation that once again Christians threw out images (only to replace them with the Bible).

 

An idol is really only an image in the mind. It is representative of an ideal a person holds dear. The religious impulse is very close to aesthetics. I think it is impossible to remove idol worship, it is natural for people. I might get into some trouble for saying that here, but I really believe it. We don't put offerings on a roadside shrine as they do in Greece, or deck a tree out with garlands and objects to make it sacred as in India, but look at the cult of celebrity and how actors and sports figures are treated in this culture. A living person becomes an idol. How many people worship money, power, or an ideal of physical beauty? An idol is some quality you wish you had or want that you feel lacking in. Something attractive and inspiring about the person or quality. It just takes different forms in different cultures.

 

Do I worship idols? Yes. I have a Buddhist shrine in my house. I go to a Buddhist temple. The statue represents the enlightened mind and the qualities of love and compassion which are present in everyone. In the past it was the Bible and different celebrities. I dumped the Bible, still do some celebrity worship, but I think overall my worship is to a better idol now than in the past.

[oddbird1963]

An idol is really only an image in the mind. It is representative of an ideal a person holds dear. The religious impulse is very close to aesthetics. I think it is impossible to remove idol worship, it is natural for people. I might get into some trouble for saying that here, but I really believe it. We don't put offerings on a roadside shrine as they do in Greece, or deck a tree out with garlands and objects to make it sacred as in India, but look at the cult of celebrity and how actors and sports figures are treated in this culture. A living person becomes an idol. How many people worship money, power, or an ideal of physical beauty? An idol is some quality you wish you had or want that you feel lacking in. Something attractive and inspiring about the person or quality. It just takes different forms in different cultures.

 

Deva,

 

This is a very interesting point.

 

I think the reason for the relationship between the religious impulse and aesthetics is the symbolic nature of our minds. Cultures and subcultures create symbols as an expression of a collective worldview. The works we create many times express the issues arising from that collective worldview (I almost want to say "collective unconscious" but I think the phrase "collective worldview" can encompass the unconscious and the conscious aspects of a dynamic, symbolic worldview).

 

Religion is just one aspect of that impulse to express reality as we see it in a system of symbolic representations.

 

I must say that I am drawn to expressions of the Buddha lately. The yin/yang symbol is also a powerful influence on me. I was in a store the other day that had a couple of Buddha statuettes on clearance and was drawn to them like a second source of gravity had been switched on.

 

There was something about the totally content expression on the face of the statuette and the perfectly poised lotus position that created a craving in me to be gripped by a state of contentment and stillness of mind. There was something about the symbology of that Buddha statuette which opened in my mind a consciousness of and a hope for a broader understanding of the universe and a better way to Be in this society of ours that is so flooded by flat signs (e.g. corporate logos) of marketing that symbols of the Ultimate are almost drowned out.

 

OB '63

[Deva]

There was something about the totally content expression on the face of the statuette and the perfectly poised lotus position that created a craving in me to be gripped by a state of contentment and stillness of mind. There was something about the symbology of that Buddha statuette which opened in my mind a consciousness of and a hope for a broader understanding of the universe and a better way to Be in this society of ours that is so flooded by flat signs (e.g. corporate logos) of marketing that symbols of the Ultimate are almost drowned out.

 

OB '63

 

Why are we attracted to some symbols and repelled by others? It is also an interesting question, and one that probably cannot be answered by the analytical part of our mind. To pin a butterfly to a board and analyze it may be useful to see more detail, but you have also killed the butterfly.

 

I can tell you from personal experience that the atmosphere in the Buddhist temple is completely different than at home. For me it is very calming and enriching in a way almost impossible to describe. There are pretty big statues there, about 4 feet tall in gleaming gold, with calm expressions (mostly). There are candles and beautifully painted thangkas (wall hangings). To me, it is life affirming, it is calming, it is positive. These are human figures representing the most positive qualities of the human mind. To others it may mean nothing at all or even have a negative effect. I am a pragmatist. It works for me.

 

This society is devoid of meaningful symbols. Its really a shame we must borrow them from another culture and can't produce anything else that isn't what I have already mentioned, celebrities and sports figures. Art is also devalued in this culture. What is valued? Look at the largest most imposing buildings of the culture to see what is valued. We mostly see large bank buildings, large corporate headquarters, office buildings. The dehumanization speaks for itself.

[Shyone]

Why are we attracted to some symbols and repelled by others? It is also an interesting question, and one that probably cannot be answered by the analytical part of our mind. To pin a butterfly to a board and analyze it may be useful to see more detail, but you have also killed the butterfly.

What I'm about to say is hardly novel, but it's my way of seeing symbols:

 

Thoughts, and chains of thoughts, and trees of thought are built up in our minds by association and tagged with various adjectives.

 

Sun, light, growth, warmth, etc. Good.

Dark, cold, pain, separation, etc. Bad.

 

I see symbols as triggers for entire hierarchies of memories, thoughts and feelings. It is possible, then, for a single symbol to be almost universal. It is also possible, however, to have groups of people or individuals that have totally different thoughts triggered by the same symbol.

 

Just think of a Cross.

[Neon Genesis]

 

 

An idol is really only an image in the mind. It is representative of an ideal a person holds dear.

 

Armstrong also mentioned this in her book, that the bible's rants about pagans worshiping the idols were really just stereotyping pagans and not really accurate representations of actual pagan idol worship and that the pagans didn't believe the idols were actual deities, only representations of those deities in physical form. I think the real problem with idol worship isn't from the worship itself but when we confuse the symbols with what they actually represent. Like in the case of celebrity worship when we confuse our idolized version of the celebrity with the actual person itself.

[oddbird1963]

Why are we attracted to some symbols and repelled by others? It is also an interesting question, and one that probably cannot be answered by the analytical part of our mind. To pin a butterfly to a board and analyze it may be useful to see more detail, but you have also killed the butterfly.

What I'm about to say is hardly novel, but it's my way of seeing symbols:

 

Thoughts, and chains of thoughts, and trees of thought are built up in our minds by association and tagged with various adjectives.

 

Sun, light, growth, warmth, etc. Good.

Dark, cold, pain, separation, etc. Bad.

 

I see symbols as triggers for entire hierarchies of memories, thoughts and feelings. It is possible, then, for a single symbol to be almost universal. It is also possible, however, to have groups of people or individuals that have totally different thoughts triggered by the same symbol.

 

Just think of a Cross.

 

Good observations , shyone. I hve had similar ideas about how our brain generates symbols and how they develop to have shared meaning across a cultural for many individuals.

[Greatest I am]

Idol worship gets a bad rap and it should by any thinking person.

 

Religious Gods = rules.

Political Gods = rules.

Natural Gods = rules.

 

To idol worship a statue or WORD or political party tends to kill all the questioning that one should always be doing.

 

To idol worship something is to resist any change to it.

In an evolving world, to allow ones rules to be so fixed that one is afraid to change them is to digress and not progress in one's thinking.

 

Regards

DL