Christianity: The Cure And The Disease

[gbbigmac]

The foremost thing that drove me away from Christianity was the doctrine of eternal damnation. Which up until Islam was exlusive to any religion. One could say I am unnaturally fixated on it, but when one really thinks about the ramifications of it, how can you not be. If there is one purpose of religion it should be this: To provide a mental realm of solitude away from the horrors of the world. To rise above the fray of human pettiness. I walked away from Christianity when I realized that not only does it not rise above the fray, it wallows in it. I know the bible is not from God because only a human could dream up something as awful as eternal damnation. Do some of us need to be punished? Of course. But punishment should be restorative in nature. And if God in his supposed infinite power cannot restore a hardened sinner then why would not then just put the poor soul out of his misery, instead of reverting to the infinite sadist the bible portrays him to be? The fact that we hate Christianity so much(and rightly so) is more a telling look at our own species than at some deity, imagined or otherwise. I mean the men who wrote the new testament were among the most vile people who ever walked this earth. Beneath the NT's clever veils of love and forgiveness lies a vindictiveness not even found in the old testament. And yet these men are revered in the modern world and get a free pass that much less evil men don't. I suppose we should take a closer look at the people who admire the bible and their authors. Ever notice that most committed Christians seem to take glee in the thought that non Christians are going to hell. Even if they believed that was true, if they had any decency they would be on their knees every night pleading to God to have mercy on us heathens. There is certainly a passive sadism running through Christianity. For awhile in my youth I thought God and Jesus really were about unconditional love and acceptance, and then I read the bible. There will never be true peace in this world until Christianity and Islam make fundamental changes in their doctrines. I mean how can Christians really get along with Hindus if they think they are damned to eternal hell and their religion is satanic. It is an impossibility. And don't even get me started on Islam. The older I get the more I realize that most people are crazy, and religion is the fruit of that insanity. A part of me still holds on to a belief in some kind of God, but in a God that's beyond the pettiness and retribution of us humans that I really hope he didn't have a hand in creating.

[gbbigmac]

And sorry what I forgot to mention with reference to the title of my post, is that I see Christians constantly thanking God for delivering them from Hell. But the ironic thing is that he is the one who created it and has power over it, in the first place. They are thanking him for saving them from himself. You could write a textbook on the psychological implications of that right there.

[Legion]

Hey Gbbigmac, welcome to ex-C.

 

I think you make an excellent observation about Christianity.

 

I would say more, but I don't even want to talk about Christianity anymore.

 

I hope you enjoy your stay here. Please have fun.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

You know they secretly want to commit mass hate crimes. When they talk about nonbelievers, their descriptions of us say enough about their inner sadist leans, hinting at all the evil atheists must be doing to others (as if we were the ones who did the crusades, the conquest of canaan and the islamic conquests). Excellent observation!

[HRDWarrior]

Good observation, and very true. It really is sad that people cannot seem to put two and two together - then again, even if they do they are so ingrained in the fear that it often holds them in even after they've figured it out...welcome to the forum!

[kellyb]

And sorry what I forgot to mention with reference to the title of my post, is that I see Christians constantly thanking God for delivering them from Hell. But the ironic thing is that he is the one who created it and has power over it, in the first place. They are thanking him for saving them from himself. You could write a textbook on the psychological implications of that right there.

 

Very, very true.

[nightflight]

One could say I am unnaturally fixated on it[hell], but when one really thinks about the ramifications of it, how can you not be.

 

Christians have told me that I was to fixated on hell, but like you said, how could I not be?

[Bro]

The foremost thing that drove me away from Christianity was the doctrine of eternal damnation. Which up until Islam was exlusive to any religion. One could say I am unnaturally fixated on it, but when one really thinks about the ramifications of it, how can you not be. If there is one purpose of religion it should be this: To provide a mental realm of solitude away from the horrors of the world. To rise above the fray of human pettiness. I walked away from Christianity when I realized that not only does it not rise above the fray, it wallows in it. I know the bible is not from God because only a human could dream up something as awful as eternal damnation. Do some of us need to be punished? Of course. But punishment should be restorative in nature. And if God in his supposed infinite power cannot restore a hardened sinner then why would not then just put the poor soul out of his misery, instead of reverting to the infinite sadist the bible portrays him to be? The fact that we hate Christianity so much(and rightly so) is more a telling look at our own species than at some deity, imagined or otherwise. I mean the men who wrote the new testament were among the most vile people who ever walked this earth. Beneath the NT's clever veils of love and forgiveness lies a vindictiveness not even found in the old testament. And yet these men are revered in the modern world and get a free pass that much less evil men don't. I suppose we should take a closer look at the people who admire the bible and their authors. Ever notice that most committed Christians seem to take glee in the thought that non Christians are going to hell. Even if they believed that was true, if they had any decency they would be on their knees every night pleading to God to have mercy on us heathens. There is certainly a passive sadism running through Christianity. For awhile in my youth I thought God and Jesus really were about unconditional love and acceptance, and then I read the bible. There will never be true peace in this world until Christianity and Islam make fundamental changes in their doctrines. I mean how can Christians really get along with Hindus if they think they are damned to eternal hell and their religion is satanic. It is an impossibility. And don't even get me started on Islam. The older I get the more I realize that most people are crazy, and religion is the fruit of that insanity. A part of me still holds on to a belief in some kind of God, but in a God that's beyond the pettiness and retribution of us humans that I really hope he didn't have a hand in creating.

This +10

 

You absolutely and totally just spoke my mind, eerily so, and so I guess you spoke for all non christians. Though I'm still a believer, but I too hold out on a God but not the God of the bible - though...it may well be the God of the bible just not how man portrays him to be. Kind of like a modifieed text of the truth.

 

Seriously, this is me 100%, agree totally and thank you for sharing this

[Llwellyn]

You are right on about Christianity. The doctrine of "God's Vengeance," "Divine Curses" must be the most logically absurd and morally bankrupt part of the Christian religion. It is the cornerstone of the religion, and it is the reason why I rejected Christianity after 25 years of it. Every other Christian doctrine -- "justification," "adoption," "atonement," "sin" -- exists by relation to the central doctrine of Hell.

 

Yahweh as described in the Bible would be a demon and could be knowingly worshiped as "God" only by other demons. This world has enough mere suffering and pointless grief. Christians and the Bible wish to convince us that these things will continue even in the next world and throughout all eternity. This is not "Good News" and it is not worthy of man's belief. It's better to look inside of yourself and follow your own conscience than believe any man-made religions about vicious "gods."

 

 

[Rick Lannoye]

You've made a number of excellent points to show there is no Hell, and I can relate, having gone through a similar journey.

 

I've actually written an entire book on this topic--Hell? No! Why You Can Be Certain There's No Such Place As Hell, (for anyone interested, you can get a free ecopy of Did Jesus Believe in Hell?, one of the most compelling chapters in my book at www.thereisnohell.com), but if I may, I'd just like to add one more point from it--that there's substantial evidence contained in the gospels to show that Jesus opposed the idea of Hell.

 

For example, in Luke 9:51-56, is a story about his great disappointment with his disciples when they actually suggested imploring God to rain FIRE on a village just because they had rejected him. His response: "You don't know what spirit is inspiring this kind of talk!" Presumably, it was NOT the Holy Spirit. He went on, trying to explain how he had come to save, heal and relieve suffering, not be the CAUSE of it.

 

So it only stands to reason that this same Jesus, who was appalled at the very idea of burning a few people, for a few horrific minutes until they were dead, could never, ever burn BILLIONS of people for an ETERNITY!

 

True, there are a few statements that made their way into the copies of copies of copies of the gospel texts which place “Hell” on Jesus’ lips, but these adulterations came along many decades after his death, most likely due to the Church filling up with Greeks who imported their belief in Hades with them when they converted.

 

Bear in mind that the historical Protestant doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures applies only to the original autographs, not the copies. But sadly, the interpolations that made their way into those copies have provided a convenient excuse for a lot of people to get around following Jesus’ real message.

[Shyone]

You've made a number of excellent points to show there is no Hell, and I can relate, having gone through a similar journey.

 

I've actually written an entire book on this topic--Hell? No! Why You Can Be Certain There's No Such Place As Hell, (for anyone interested, you can get a free ecopy of Did Jesus Believe in Hell?, one of the most compelling chapters in my book at www.thereisnohell.com), but if I may, I'd just like to add one more point from it--that there's substantial evidence contained in the gospels to show that Jesus opposed the idea of Hell.

 

For example, in Luke 9:51-56, is a story about his great disappointment with his disciples when they actually suggested imploring God to rain FIRE on a village just because they had rejected him. His response: "You don't know what spirit is inspiring this kind of talk!" Presumably, it was NOT the Holy Spirit. He went on, trying to explain how he had come to save, heal and relieve suffering, not be the CAUSE of it.

 

So it only stands to reason that this same Jesus, who was appalled at the very idea of burning a few people, for a few horrific minutes until they were dead, could never, ever burn BILLIONS of people for an ETERNITY!

 

True, there are a few statements that made their way into the copies of copies of copies of the gospel texts which place “Hell” on Jesus’ lips, but these adulterations came along many decades after his death, most likely due to the Church filling up with Greeks who imported their belief in Hades with them when they converted.

 

Bear in mind that the historical Protestant doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures applies only to the original autographs, not the copies. But sadly, the interpolations that made their way into those copies have provided a convenient excuse for a lot of people to get around following Jesus’ real message.

While I absolutely agree that there is no Hell, your writing sounds like an apologetic for Jesus.

 

I would never quote scripture to show there is no hell, and I don't think it's really important (except as a curiosity) whether Jesus believed in it or not. There is no hell for the same reason that there is no God and no heaven and no souls. It's all just made up.

 

There are no "original texts" that one can refer to and, although you are correct that there are interpolations, the "original" contains as much fantasy and error as the copies.

 

You imply that Jesus could have rained down fire on a village if he had wanted to. I say he had no power to rain down fire, water or anything else except his own piss.

 

Many people "prove" there is no hell because they don't like the idea of it. It is indeed appalling, and inconsistent with a loving God and always has been. It isn't, however, unreal because it's not nice; it just isn't there - anywhere.