Brother Jeff Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 I have a longtime friend on FB who just found out that I'm an Atheist. She and her husband were best friends of mine for about six years, from 1994-2000. We had a falling out and had almost no contact for the next ten years. I visited them once back in 2007 and that went well, and they have been FB friends for a short while. But anyway, I've been posting more anti-religious stuff recently than usual, and Toni caught on to the fact that I don't believe in god. She sent me an email earlier today saying that she was "afraid for my soul" and that she would be "praying for me whether I liked it or not". This was after she and Calvin responded to a thread of mine on FB and asked how atheists could believe that we came from apes and alleging that most people in prison are atheists. I corrected their misinformation on both counts, which prompted the "fear for your soul" email. I haven't responded to Toni's email yet. I'm still contemplating my response. I think I know what I will tell her though -- that I don't have a soul, there is no rational reason to fear for the safety of something that doesn't exist, and no reason to fear beings or places that don't exist. And since she's a friend, I'll be nice. Toni's email did get me thinking, though, about the fact that what motivates her concern is religious fear -- which along with guilt and shame -- are the driving emotional forces behind religious belief. I still have struggles with religious guilt and shame that I am working through, but I am completely and gloriously FREE of religious fear. Religious fear has no power over me at all, and it hasn't had for quite some time now. I truly don't ever spend any time at all anymore worrying about my soul since I know I don't have such a thing, and I no longer worry at all about going to places that are obviously mythical in nature. I don't fear the Christian god or any other mythical beings. But my friend Toni is clearly strongly motivated by fears that I will go to hell, and she doesn't have a clue that her fears are baseless and that she is wasting her time and her emotional energy over fears that have no basis in REALITY. As for her prayers, well, prayer makes the one doing the praying feel good, but that's ALL it accomplishes -- OBVIOUSLY. At least to those of us who are free of religious bondage enough to be able to comprehend the universe and the world as it actually is. Anyway, the point of this rambling post is that I just think it's sad that people spend so much time and energy worrying about beings and places and things like souls that clearly don't actually exist. To me, that ties in strongly with my recent post here in the forums and on my glorious site about how Christianity is a harmful delusion. Part of the harm it does is causing believers to waste so much time and energy on baseless fears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbbigmac Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 The only thing I can offer in dealing with your old friends is a quote from Thomas Jefferson giving advice to anyone who had to deal with the christian crazies of the day. Good Luck! "no good can ever result from any attempt to set one of these fiery zealots to rights, either in fact or principle. They are determined as to the facts they will believe, and the opinions on which they will act. Get by them, therefore, as you would by an angry bull; it is not for a man of sense to dispute the road with such an animal" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRDWarrior Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 If it were me (which obviously it's not) I'd probably nicely say that although I understand her concern, and she's obviously free to do as she pleases, that you are not worried about something that you don't have. I'd probably say that my beliefs (or lack thereof as is the case) are not a matter of rebellion, but a studied, thought out, and logical conclusion that you have been led to, and although she may feel fear for you, that you have no such fear, and feel she may be wasting her time and encourage her to spend her prayers on someone who will appreciate what she is doing. That, or I'd just ignore it - would depend on my mood lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Yes I think you are right, the whole thing is based on fear, but for a minority it is about love. Its sad that some people are so close minded to the views of others. Being a real friend is about continuing to really value the other person whether they agree with you or not. Why can't she just be happy for you for your new found absence of fear, which is an incredibly liberating and life changing event. Doesn't matter how you got there, a true friend would be happy for you. Whether you do or don't have a soul, its fate is your own damn business. I am pleased for you that you have lost your religious fear, I lost mine about 3 or so years ago and agree that life is much more worth living without it. Im not really an adherent of the whole athiest thing. Christianity has put me off identifying with any kind of cause, position or group for life. I don't get the point of endless arguing about something I don't think can be proved either way. A person killed another in an argument over it close to where I live and ever since then I have been, who gives a fuck, it just not THAT important. Peace on your journey, which you seem to have found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Yes I think you are right, the whole thing is based on fear, but for a minority it is about love. Sadly, even for those with fear it is about love. They don't want to see their friends fry forever. And the love that they experience they fear losing, so there you go. It's all love, and it's all fear. The two are inextricably linked in religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 So she "fears for your soul" after you correct her mistaken beliefs with some actual facts, eh? Sounds like a tacit admission on her part that reality is a threat to her Truth. Good to see you back, Brother Jeff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Christian: "I'm afraid for your soul!" Me: "Awwwww... that's so sweet! I'm afraid for your soul, too! (((((((Hugs!))))))) Hope you're doing well, Loren" Or; Christian: "I'll be praying for you whether you like it or not!" Me: "Thanks! I'll be sure and let you know if your prayers for me ever actually work." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Christian: "I'll be praying for you whether you like it or not!" Me: "Thanks! I'll be sure and let you know if your prayers for me ever actually work." Or Me: Oh, nice. As a matter of fact, I like it a lot, I like it so much that I want you to pray day and night, non-stop, for the next month. Can you do that? Christian: Eh, no, I have to eat and sleep too. Me: What!? You have no faith that God will feed you and give you supernatural strength? Well, if that's the case, then you can keep your faithless prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dB-Paradox Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 The Christian does indeed seem to display a genuine sorrow for a friend or relative who has left the flock. The expression of fear for your soul implies they are not afraid of their own destiny, just as you are not afraid of yours. However, they don't understand that in believing there is a god, they are actually in just as much trouble as they say you are in. For if Muhammad actually did come to restore the faith of people who strayed away from the truth, and if Jesus Christ was being worshipped as the one true divine god when he wasn't, then Christians are guilty of blasphemy. And, according to Islam, non-Muslims are going to a hell that God has prepared for unbelievers. So maybe the Christians should be afraid of their own souls first! You can see how this all makes no sense, having to blindly choose the right god, but the point to emphasise to the Christian is that their soul may be in as much danger as they think yours is in. Turn it around on them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted February 25, 2010 Author Share Posted February 25, 2010 Well, I spent several hours today visiting with Calvin and Toni. It was great to see them again, and we talked a bit about me being an Atheist. Calvin informed me there is no such thing as a real atheist because our money says, "In God we Trust". I think he was actually serious. I pointed out that that phrase has only appeared on our currency since the 1950's as a product of the Commie Red Scare. I then asked him, "What if our money said In Zeus we Trust"? His response was "Um, well, it doesn't..." And of course he didn't know the history of that phrase either... I really like these folks and I'm really happy that our friendship if back on track after a long break, but they are as sadly ignorant and misinformed as most Christians... Oh, and we talked about evolution a bit too and when I brought up the fact that our line of hominids split off from the Great Apes a few million years ago, Calvin just looked away to a far corner of the room. He referred to me as an "evolutionist", which to me is just a derogatory term created by those creationist morons and slung at those of us who accept the findings of science in the area of human origins while simultaneously rejecting the absurd creation accounts found in the bible, as well as thousands of other equally absurd creation myths from around the world (but those don't count, of course). Before I left Lake Jackson, we played some miniature golf at Toni's place of employment, which was cool because it's an indoor course lit only by black lights, and the whole course glows. My shoes did too. And we joked about the fact that they were playing golf with "a fucking Atheist." Toni shushed me because I said "fucking" too loud in a public place, in her opinion. I didn't give a shit. Why should I care? I don't have morals. I'm a fucking Atheist! Thanks for the welcome back, Sister Gwenmead! It's good to be back around here. Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Yes I think you are right, the whole thing is based on fear, but for a minority it is about love. Sadly, even for those with fear it is about love. They don't want to see their friends fry forever. And the love that they experience they fear losing, so there you go. It's all love, and it's all fear. The two are inextricably linked in religion. I find that to be true. My parents always approached it from the love angle, but I could clearly see from my visit with them last week that fear is pretty much strangling them too. My mom gave me the "I'm afraid for your soul" talk. I pity them more than anything else. To my replies all she could muster was "well, you have an answer for everything, I guess it's up to god." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 My mom gave me the "I'm afraid for your soul" talk. I pity them more than anything else. To my replies all she could muster was "well, you have an answer for everything, I guess it's up to god." This is so familiar I can almost hear the pain in her voice. It's real. I know the pain you feel as a result. It is real, too. But yes...the pity. I wished so much I could relieve my mother of the senseless suffering for Christ she insisted on. But how could I when she was intent on telling me how real hell was. I got my reward when standing at her open grave and realizing with enormous relief that she would never have to face the Great Judgment Seat of God. She would never have to find out that, despite her best efforts, she wasn't quite good enough. She always feared she might not quite make the grade. Now I knew she didn't have to--there was no god who could or would judge either her failings or her accomplishments. I don't know if this helps any of the rest of you but it sure meant a lot to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted February 27, 2010 Author Share Posted February 27, 2010 My mom gave me the "I'm afraid for your soul" talk. I pity them more than anything else. To my replies all she could muster was "well, you have an answer for everything, I guess it's up to god." This is so familiar I can almost hear the pain in her voice. It's real. I know the pain you feel as a result. It is real, too. But yes...the pity. I wished so much I could relieve my mother of the senseless suffering for Christ she insisted on. But how could I when she was intent on telling me how real hell was. I got my reward when standing at her open grave and realizing with enormous relief that she would never have to face the Great Judgment Seat of God. She would never have to find out that, despite her best efforts, she wasn't quite good enough. She always feared she might not quite make the grade. Now I knew she didn't have to--there was no god who could or would judge either her failings or her accomplishments. I don't know if this helps any of the rest of you but it sure meant a lot to me. I think that fear of not quite making the grade torments many Christians, whether they will admit it or not. I know it did me when I was a believer. I used to go through periods of feeling condemned and not being sure if I was really saved or not. It was torture at the time, but now of course I realize that I was wasting my time worrying about the opinion of a non-existent being. It was painful though, and I too pity those who are still caught up in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brakeman Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Personally, I would use their "christian concern" against them. Use it by saying something like: "Ya know, maybe you should pray that the biblical story of the Tower of Babel would become clear to me." Then proceed to spew about the absurdities of the story. They are then trapped to really listen, instead of just nod. Then after a few days, I'd give them an update of the failure of their prayers. Of course I'm just a sneaky SOB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 Calvin informed me there is no such thing as a real atheist because our money says, "In God we Trust". I think he was actually serious. Holy bajeebus, Batman! Even when I was a committed (aka brainwashed) believer, I never would have said something that ridiculous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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