Getting the best gas mileage

[Poonis]

Hey guys.

 

I have recently taken a break from posting, having stumbled across something a few of you might find interesting. If you are seriously looking for ways to improve gas mileage, above the "check your tire pressure and roll up your windows" rhetoric, take a look at this site: www.smartgas.net.

 

This site is built around the goal of truly increasing gas mileage *above* what your vehicle is supposed to run at. It is one of those sites that you will think is too good to be true. For those of you who know me, as an atheist, I don't believe anything. Show me or blow me.

 

I was surprised to find that the man who runs smartgas.net lives in my neck of the woods. So I called up Lou, and just got done with a two-hour meeting with him today (sunday 9/11/05).

 

Many people are bitching about gas prices, and few try to do anything about it. I have found that Lou knows what he is talking about. The answer, in great part, is 100% pure acetone (aka, fingernail polish remover). You can buy it at Menards, Walgreens, etc, by the quart (about $3.71) or by the gallon (about $8.50).

 

If you actually want to get better mileage, instead of just bitching about it, start by doing this:

 

1. What you do not have of the following, you will need to purchase:

 

100% pure acetone (I bought a 32oz metal can for $3.71 total at Menards)

a funnel for your gas tank (I bought mine at the local auto parts store)

a measuring cup with listing for ounces (I bought a glass one at Target)

a calculator ($2.99 @ Target)

pen

paper

Highly recommended: ScanGauge (from scangauge.com, $129.95, free shipping; it plugs into your ODB-II port and gives you real-time gas mileage)

 

2. Find a gas station with 'good' gas. In Minnesota, Holiday, SuperAmerica, Marathon, Spur, Blue Planet, and the like all have shit gas. Go to Shell, Texaco, CostCo, Mobile. The least amount of alcohol, the better. Minnesotans know what I'm talking about. Gas stations with bad gas or high alcohol content will not yield results that I am talking about!

 

3. For every 10 gallons of gasoline you have in your car, pour in between 2 and 3 ounces of pure acetone. I use 3 ounces.

 

4. Set your trip (or record your current mileage), how many gallons you put in, the gas station and location, and the amount of acetone you used.

 

----

 

Here are my preliminary results from the above methods on my car:

 

My vehicle: 2002 Dodge Neon, 2.0L SOHC, ~97,xxx miles, 12.5gal gas tank.

Before using acetone, between 23.1 mpg and 25 mpg every day driving.

 

Test 1: 3oz acetone per 10 gal. Drove 138.6 miles on 3.113 gallons. 138.6mi / 3.113gal = 44.52 mpg (I'm sure that any carbon deposits in my cylinders were blown out with this)

 

Test 2: (deliberately filled up with bad gas) 3oz per 10 gal. Drove 206.9 miles on 7.7 gallons. 206.3mi / 7.7gal = 26.87 mpg. (bad gas with acetone was still better than I was initially getting)

 

I am awaiting my ScanGauge that should be arriving next thursday or friday. I will be continuing with this test, for those who are interested. I should note the side effects of this so far:

 

1. noticeably smoother idle

2. slightly more aggressive acceleration

3. Error Code 51 went away, which meant I needed new O2 sensors.

 

As of yet, none of this includes using better oil, spark plugs, filter, thermostat, and so on, that Lou has recommended to me during our meeting. Hopefully next week I will be performing Lou's recommended maintainance, and will provide results of this as well over the following days.

 

I have heard the stories and the doubts that it will damage my engine and so on. Either my neon will go or blow, but I would not be doing this if I thought it was B.S.

[Clearview]

Your post is reassuring, Poonis. I've been reading all I can on acetone after coming across smartgas.net. I ordered a ScanGage and Torco additives last week and I'm planning on finding the best gas before adding acetone (I'm still a little leery about it because my vehicle is new). Lucky for me, there is a gas station right around the corner from work that does not add any alcohols to their gas. I still want to see the better mileage for myself with the ScanGage, though.

[BlueGiant]

Hmmm...interesting idea. Something about it makes me a bit ansy, though. Acetone is a pretty potent solvent, though the dilution should not cause much in the way of problems, long term, I am not too sure. Part of the issue is that I do not know what the gaskets are made out of, though I know that on most cars (at least those that can't take 95% ethanol), that high ethanol concentrations (higher than you find at most gas pumps, essentially gasahol), can do quite a number on the fuel system gaskets. As far as acetone, while it will not hydrogen bond, it is still pretty damn polar.

 

It is interesting, though and I look foward to hearing your results. I'd just watch for long term damage.

 

Brings in some O2 when burned, so I would think that the fuel sensor and the injectors may need to be adjusted to ensure that the fuel mixture is not running too lean, which if I remember my brother's turbo mod can cause problems with pressure in the cylinder.

 

Keep us posted.

[BlueGiant]

Before I forget.

 

One other thing to keep in mind, though I am sure you all are aware of this, but acetone is FLAMABLE, especially at 100%. Be careful how you store it, and never let it near polystyrene (styrofoam) unless you want a very entertaining way of making gunk. Proper storage with it is critical.

[Poonis]

Hmmm...interesting idea.  Something about it makes me a bit ansy, though.  Acetone is a pretty potent solvent, though the dilution should not cause much in the way of problems, long term, I am not too sure.  Part of the issue is that I do not know what the gaskets are made out of, though I know that on most cars (at least those that can't take 95% ethanol), that high ethanol concentrations (higher than you find at most gas pumps, essentially gasahol), can do quite a number on the fuel system gaskets.  As far as acetone, while it will not hydrogen bond, it is still pretty damn polar.

 

It is interesting, though and I look foward to hearing your results.  I'd just watch for long term damage.

 

Brings in some O2 when burned, so I would think that the fuel sensor and the injectors may need to be adjusted to ensure that the fuel mixture is not running too lean, which if I remember my brother's turbo mod can cause problems with pressure in the cylinder.

 

Keep us posted.

 

Keep in mind acetone usage is about 1:5000 (3oz per 10 gals) to 1:6000 (2oz per 10 gals). For comparison, when you mix 2-cycle gas, you mix it 1:40 to 1:50 with 2-cycle oil.

 

I've asked Lou especially about damage to gaskets, seals, etc. He said absolutely nothing will happen. He's been running acetone in every vehicle he's had since 1953 (millions and millions of miles), and has never had an issue with acetone burning anything out. The only side effects he's had are better gas mileage and an engine that last 2-3 times longer than you would expect it to.

 

A co-worker and my dad have both taken to using acetone now, as well. My co-worker drives 50mi one-way (100 miles a day) to get to work. Previously got 19-20mpg highway on his 95 chevy corsica. Now he gets 34-36mpg. My dad runs it in his 93 taurus SHO, and although has not checked the gas mileage, he is an old drag racer, and has noticed a slight increase in snap under the hood, as well as it idles smoother and more responsive.

[Poonis]

Before I forget.

 

One other thing to keep in mind, though I am sure you all are aware of this, but acetone is FLAMABLE, especially at 100%. Be careful how you store it, and never let it near polystyrene (styrofoam) unless you want a very entertaining way of making gunk.  Proper storage with it is critical.

 

Gasoline is flammable too Store the acetone in the same way. I keep mine in my trunk. Lou gets a 16oz plastic bottle from Walgreens and keeps it in his glove box. To each his own.

 

A lot of people store it in their bathroom cabinets though (fingernail polish remover).

[trashy]

Poonis,

 

Are you using regular unleaded or higher octane?

[BlueGiant]

True, gasoline is flamable (as are most things if you have the right tools... ).

 

Just thought I'd still mention the whole nasty flamability thing, as it tends to be more so than gasolene if it is pure. Just saying that one should be careful with it, as this is quite a bit stronger than nail polish remover. (Something I always like to keep around anyway, so nice for cleaning things, don't you think?)

[Poonis]

Poonis,

 

Are you using regular unleaded or higher octane?

 

I use 87 octane. You should stay with the octane that is recommended for your car.

 

Just a side note, acetone is about 150 octane. By puting in 3 oz of acetone in 10 gallons of 87 octane, it will raise your octane to 87.098, in case you are wondering.

[BlueGiant]

Noted. Talked to my brother about the acetone thing a bit, said he didn't know much, though after hearing about the milage thing may talk to some racing fuel guys he knows.

 

No offense, but it really does seem like a too good to be true thing, I can't believe that there isn't a downside (other than the bit of extra work). Keep us posted of your experiments.

[bob]

I have read up a bit on this. My dad is a jack-of-all-trades type guy. He is very knowledgeable when it comes to autos. I sent him some of this information to see what he thinks. He sent me some links that he found. Seems that there are some concerns about damage to fuel lines and rubber seals, etc, but no evidence that damage is done.

I drive a 92 Mercury Grand Marques with almost 200,000 miles, a 4.6 liter V-8. I get about 20 around town and 28 on the highway. I bought a qt. of pure acetone at Wal Mart for $1.87. I filled up (20 gallons) with 89 octane (my car pings bad with 87), and put 6 oz of acetone in the tank. Will let you know how it does.

So far, watching the needle, it seems to be going down slower. That could be wishful thinking, Jesus finally answering my prayers, or the acetone.

[Shadfox]

The website disappeared!

 

This does sound great! But, my truck is only a month old and I don't want to screw anything up this soon. I'll keep watching

[Poonis]

The website disappeared!

 

This does sound great!  But, my truck is only a month old and I don't want to screw anything up this soon.  I'll keep watching

 

I takled with Lou about smartgas.net the other day. He is in the midst of updating with easy-to-follow instructions, because it isn't very easy to determine what to do, and an order in which to do them.

 

My ScanGauge and the 20w50 Torco MPZ non-synthetic motorcycle oil (5 quarts) will be arriving tomorrow. The first thing I will test is my real-time mileage before changing the oil, and afterwards. Hopefully it rains so I don't have to work this weekend, allowing me to test this out sooner

[Poonis]

I have recieved both my ScanGauge and the Torco MPZ 20w50 oil today, and have employed both.

 

Hopefully this weekend I can start some serious testing.

 

I have setup a web page specifically for this: http://nerp.net/~benb/mpg.html

[RankStranger]

I have recieved both my ScanGauge and the Torco MPZ 20w50 oil today, and have employed both.

 

Hopefully this weekend I can start some serious testing.

 

I have setup a web page specifically for this: http://nerp.net/~benb/mpg.html

 

20W50 is some pretty thick oil- didn't you say you drive a Neon? If you're looking to save gas, I think cheap 5W30 oil from walmart would be a better choice.

[Poonis]

20W50 is some pretty thick oil- didn't you say you drive a Neon?  If you're looking to save gas, I think cheap 5W30 oil from walmart would be a better choice.

 

At first, this is what I had thought as well. I am testing Lou's suggestions at http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/tips.htm. When I met with him, he explained to me why using Torco 20w50 is the way to go. When Lou worked for Ashlund oil, he tested every oil he could find. Although labelled 20w50, the superiority in friction reduction is the main reason for using this blend.

 

I was previously running valvoline max-life 5w30, and have been running synthetic 5w30 for the last 100K miles of my neon. With the torco, the engine revs noticeably *faster*, and pulls slightly harder when accelerating. Interesting to note as well is that the torco 20w50 does not feel or look thick like 20w50 normally does. It feels thinner than the 5w30 I've been running since I bought the car.

 

I still recieve over 40 mpg even with the Torco 20w50 and a passenger. Having run the Torco oil for the last couple hundred miles now, I think I may be staying with it, and running straight 40 in winter, as recommended by Lou.

[Lunar Shadow]

thanks for the heads up Poonis I am gonna have to check that out. Gas has come down but not enought to be comfortable ($2.89/gal down from $3.15/gal) acetone and Torco 20w50 hmmmm well here goes nothin'

[Poonis]

thanks for the heads up Poonis I am gonna have to check that out. Gas has come down but not enought to be comfortable ($2.89/gal down from $3.15/gal) acetone and Torco 20w50 hmmmm well here goes nothin'

 

Make sure to get your baseline mpg (mpg per tank, etc) so you have something to compare it with.

 

I am working on another project for increasing gas mileage even more. If gas prices go up again from this next hurricane (lost track of names now), I suspect more people will be interested.

 

In the mean time, my K&N filter should be arriving tomorrow via UPS. I will post back on how it helps or does not help.

 

Oh, and here is a good rule of thumb with the acetone: less is more. between 2-3 oz for every 10 gallons is most efficient (you will have to test with your car(s) for best amount), once you go above 4 oz, you start losing gas mileage, but your emissions will pass any emissions test. Don't be 'that guy' who fills half his tank up with acetone, tho

[Eponymic]

At first, this is what I had thought as well. I am testing Lou's suggestions at http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/tips.htm. When I met with him, he explained to me why using Torco 20w50 is the way to go. When Lou worked for Ashlund oil, he tested every oil he could find. Although labelled 20w50, the superiority in friction reduction is the main reason for using this blend.

 

I was previously running valvoline max-life 5w30, and have been running synthetic 5w30 for the last 100K miles of my neon. With the torco, the engine revs noticeably *faster*, and pulls slightly harder when accelerating. Interesting to note as well is that the torco 20w50 does not feel or look thick like 20w50 normally does. It feels thinner than the 5w30 I've been running since I bought the car.

 

I still recieve over 40 mpg even with the Torco 20w50 and a passenger. Having run the Torco oil for the last couple hundred miles now, I think I may be staying with it, and running straight 40 in winter, as recommended by Lou.

 

So is the 20w50 acceptable even in harsh winter conditions?

[Jaded]

So is the 20w50 acceptable even in harsh winter conditions?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Depends on how cold. If you never get below 40 you will probably be ok. Below that, especially below about 20, your oil gets hard to pump in the morning. Last year I switched from 10w-30 to 5w-30 in January and had considerably less timing chain and valve train noise at startup. It took about 5 seconds before the oil reached the top of the engine. That was with Mobil1 10w-30 which is on the thin side for a 10w-30.

 

I switched over to the new M1 5w-40 truck and suv oil as it has most of the additive package from their delvac diesel oil. I have been burning off less oil (stuck oil control ring) and getting less sludge (it's a saturn) since the switch. The 40 should lube better under hard driving and it should still flow well in the cold being a 5w.

 

Umm...yeah, what I meant to say was I wouldn't use 20w-50 below 40 degrees. You may even damage your timing belt if it drive the oil pump directly.

 

As far as acetone goes...I think if you are driving around with a scan tool reading out your mileage constantly it is going to change the way you drive. It probably won't hurt at that concentration, but it definitely isn't friendly for your rubber seals.

[trashy]

As far as acetone goes...I think if you are driving around with a scan tool reading out your mileage constantly it is going to change the way you drive.  It probably won't hurt at that concentration, but it definitely isn't friendly for your rubber seals.

um, could you clarify that a little bit? It won't hurt, but it will hurt?

[Poonis]

um, could you clarify that a little bit?  It won't hurt, but it will hurt? 

 

This is the FUD at work (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt). Acetone by itself does nothing to rubber parts and seals. At 3 oz of acetone for every 10 gallons, you would be lucky to have the acetone even get to your engine in the first place. All acetone does it break up the surface tension of gasoline, thereby aiding gasoline vaporization substantially.

 

I'm not just talking jive here; I'm talking from experience. I am currently running my daily-driving vehicle with acetone and everything exactly as found at http://nerp.net/~benb/mpg.html.

 

Acetone has only made my engine run smoother by eliminating the vibration, burned out the carbon deposits, increased my gas mileage and horsepower. It is like I just bought a new car. If anyone wants to see this with his/her own eyes, PM me and I will *show* you (if you live close enough or are willing to come up to MN).

[Eponymic]

So is there an appropriate/better oil for me to use since I'm in winter conditions that generally stay below 40 degrees for several months?

[Poonis]

So is there an appropriate/better oil for me to use since I'm in winter conditions that generally stay below 40 degrees for several months?

 

For cold winters, use Torco 15w40 MPZ super diesel oil. Make sure to use the low-resistance NGK spark plugs, and gap them at .25 instead of .35. This is crucial, as this will help your engine start better in sever cold.

 

Also, Instead of using all oil, buy a bottle of torco magnetic friction reducer (12 oz), and a tube of EAL (engine assembly lube, 4 oz).

 

I order all this through www.motorcycle-superstore.com. Although I don't think they list the diesel oil on their site, call them and order over the phone and they will get it for you. Or you could order directly from torcousa.com, but I think when they sell it directly it costs more.

[Eponymic]

For cold winters, use Torco 15w40 MPZ super diesel oil. Make sure to use the low-resistance NGK spark plugs, and gap them at .25 instead of .35. This is crucial, as this will help your engine start better in sever cold.

 

 

I really don't know much about cars, what do you mean by the .25 gap?