lonelee Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 Hi, I just joined up and even piped in a few conversations already! This place just feels warm and welcoming to me. Thanks for this great site! Let's see, a little about me. Well, I'm a mid-thirties husband and father. I've been married for 15 years. My wife and I were married in the church we met at, and we were both Christians up until about a year ago. That's when I began deconverting. Up until then, I'd been a born-again Christian for over 25 years. My wife is still a Christian to this day, but it really hasn't impacted our marriage, being that we see two different philosophical points of view. In fact, even both her family and mine are handling the whole thing quite well. They aren't happy, but aren't hurtful either, for the most part. I've been reading some testimonies and posts in other areas of the site, and I have to admit that my experiences are much different than many other people's. Even my old pastor seemed to be quite respectful of my news nearly a year ago. I don't know if it's the way I come across, or if I just have good karma follow me around! But either way, I'm not complaining! However, I feel so bad for some of the horrible stories I've read just in the last few days. Anyway, what got my eyes opened was a "holy spirit" experience which ended up as a dud. It was quite different from other void experiences, and I could no longer justify my belief in a god. Slowly, I began learning new things which I had previously tried so hard to ignore my whole life, such as the science of evolution and other such evidence which was contrary to the bible. Really reading the bible was another factor in my deconversion. I saw passages in there that I was 'sheltered' from my whole life, or else had been given apologetic explanations for, to reconcile what the particular passage was saying. But possibly one of the biggest factors in leaving Christianity was seeing other faiths through the eyes of other people. How could I claim to have to only way to salvation, condemn others for choosing to ignore the message of Christ, all the while doing it myself with other faiths. I read some Jewish apologetics on why Christianity was wrong (and why Judaism was right, of course) and it just gave me a new pair of eyes! I wasn't convinced by the apologetics presented, but I did see that Christians are guilty of the same 'sins' they condemn others of. That was pretty much it for me! Been pretty happy, for the most part, since leaving the faith. I feel more accepting of other people, as well as a genuine happiness. The only thing I feel sad about is that the dream of an eternal heaven is just that...a dream. Or a wish! But seeing that this is the only life, has also got me focusing on my relationships more. I feel that if I've only got one chance to get it right, I'd better make it a good one! And that's what I hope to do! So, thanks again for this great site, and I hope to meet some new friends along the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 Welcome to the site, enjoy your stay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nay Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 But possibly one of the biggest factors in leaving Christianity was seeing other faiths through the eyes of other people. How could I claim to have to only way to salvation, condemn others for choosing to ignore the message of Christ, all the while doing it myself with other faiths. I read some Jewish apologetics on why Christianity was wrong (and why Judaism was right, of course) and it just gave me a new pair of eyes! I wasn't convinced by the apologetics presented, but I did see that Christians are guilty of the same 'sins' they condemn others of. That was pretty much it for me! Welcome! This site has really helped me out, I hope you find solace here as I do. That's basically what did it for me too, and I've never heard it worded so wonderfully. Back when I was a Christian, I spent some time in India as a missionary. When I came back, I really thought about what I had done there...I went to a foreign country and basically condemned these people to a fiery existence after death just because they don't believe in Jesus. I really thought they were sinning and that they were doomed to spend an eternity and hell, and then I thought to myself...wow, god is really an asshole! And then it dawned on me..."Hmm, what if the Indians and right and I'M wrong? And what about all the other religions?" Then I did some research on Christianity (amazing how little I knew about a religion that was, at the time, meaning of my entire life!). I also spent about a month reading the bible and realizing how contradicting it is of itself and how f'd up some of it really is! Then it all just started to make sense. People need something to hope for, something to comfort them and keep them on the right track, so they turn to (or are born into) religion. So, yeah! I completely understand where you are coming from. You are lucky to have understanding family. My mother and many of my friends think I am going to hell! I just tell them "It's OK, I don't believe in hell!" That always stumps 'em. I guess I'm lucky too, though. My husband was baptist when we got married and now he is on the same page as me...I didn't do any convincing...he just saw what I discovering and he felt it too. Maybe your wife will start to see the same thing. I feel more accepting of others too. And I do not try to preach my new found realizations to Christians because I understand where they are, you know? I mean, it's sad that they are "stuck," misguided, and living their entire lives in fear, but it's not like they're going to go to hell or something if I don't deconvert them, right? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 Welcome, Lonelee! I'm curious (if you don't mind me asking) why the username and loner avatar? Do you feel like a lone atheist where you are at? I really enjoyed reading your testimony. I hope you have a great time participating in this site! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoMuso Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 The only thing I feel sad about is that the dream of an eternal heaven is just that...a dream. Or a wish! But seeing that this is the only life, has also got me focusing on my relationships more. I feel that if I've only got one chance to get it right, I'd better make it a good one! And that's what I hope to do! So, thanks again for this great site, and I hope to meet some new friends along the way! Welcome Lonelee, you will find many friends here. Finding out that death is oblivion did the same for me. Knowledge has removed my belief in an afterlife, and integrity will not allow me to invent an antidote for death. It would be soooo amazing if we could live after death, but wishing it will not make it so. Welcome on board brother ExC, and to the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnK Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 Been pretty happy, for the most part, since leaving the faith. I feel more accepting of other people, as well as a genuine happiness. I can definitely identify with that too. One of the biggest mental "stresses" I had to deal with as a Christian was the fact that most of my family members were non-Christian, meaning they would end up in hell unless they eventually became Christians (I believed). What a terrible way to view the world and other human beings! Since I have deconverted from Christianity, I am now free to accept people just the way they are, regardless of their religion, habits, hobbies, sexual orientation, etc. I can look at another person now and just see another person, instead of someone I must potentially convert to Christianity. This is such a refreshing change from the stifling and depressing dogma of religion. By the way, you mentioned some Jewish apologetics that led you away from the faith. Would you be able to link me to these sources? I would be interested in reading them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoMuso Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 By the way, you mentioned some Jewish apologetics that led you away from the faith. Would you be able to link me to these sources? I would be interested in reading them. Oooh yes please ... me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonelee Posted April 2, 2010 Author Share Posted April 2, 2010 Thanks everyone for the replies! Very warm and friendly! Oddbird...I simply chose the username and the avatar to go with it because I am an extremely introverted person. I have very few close friends, but I actually like that. It may sound strange, but I like being lonely, or alone more accurately. I spend most of my time with my family. And it's usually spent at home. As for the link to the Jewish website that denounces Jesus....http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/jewsandjesus. That link is specifically about Jesus, but they have a bunch of other stuff. Mostly the same old religious BS you can find anywhere. I listened to a few MP3s they have, and it just sounds like Christian apologetics. But at least you get to see Christianity through their eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonelee Posted April 2, 2010 Author Share Posted April 2, 2010 Clickable link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 Welcome Lonelee, Great to have you here. Have fun. Hans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydroman74 Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 Thanks everyone for the replies! Very warm and friendly! Oddbird...I simply chose the username and the avatar to go with it because I am an extremely introverted person. I have very few close friends, but I actually like that. It may sound strange, but I like being lonely, or alone more accurately. I spend most of my time with my family. And it's usually spent at home. You sound like me. If you don't mind, could you elaborate on the "holy spirit" dud experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mriana Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 Welcome. Glad to have you here and hope to see more of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonelee Posted April 3, 2010 Author Share Posted April 3, 2010 You sound like me. If you don't mind, could you elaborate on the "holy spirit" dud experience? Our family cat went missing and we prayed and prayed that she would be alright. She was an indoor cat, and not used to the outdoors. After praying, I got a sense of peace and reassurance from the holy spirit that our cat would come home to us. I truly believed everything was going to be alright. About a day or two later, we got the horrible news that our cat was dead. She had only been in the home for six years, but it was long enough for us to feel quite the impact of the trauma. After receiving the news, I asked myself what that feeling of peace really was. It was then that I realized that I had made it all up on my own, most likely what everyone does. That was a really defining moment in my deconversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mriana Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 Sorry about your cat. I know it had to have been painful to hear such news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centauri Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 By the way, you mentioned some Jewish apologetics that led you away from the faith. Would you be able to link me to these sources? I would be interested in reading them. Here are several additional ones: (All of these sites have sections that address Christian claims) Outreach Judaism http://www.outreachjudaism.org/questions.html Their Hollow Inheritance http://www.drazin.com/ Messiah and Tanach http://home.comcast.net/~fiddlerzvi/j4j_no.html Counter-Missionary Essays http://www.virtualyeshiva.com/counter-index.html Anti-Missionary http://www.anti-missionary.com/ Refuting Christianity http://faithstrengthened.org/FS_TOC.html Messiah Truth (has a forum) http://www.messiahtruth.com/response.html Jews for Judaism http://jewsforjudaism.org/ Christianity Uncovered http://christianity-uncovered.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mriana Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 Thanks for those links, Centauri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centauri Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 Thanks for those links, Centauri You bet. I think it would be a good idea to have these Jewish links set up as a pinned topic, so others can find them easily. It's a fairly common request and they provide a wealth of information. It took me a long time to read all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnK Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 Thanks for the links lonelee and Centauri. I read through some of them, and all I have to say is that the Jews are very effective in debunking Christianity. I mean, they are the ones who really know Hebrew and the old Testament (which is like the original Bible). The average Christian knows little to nothing about Hebrew, Jewish customs and practices, etc, and would have a very difficult time arguing against these apologetics. I think it is very ironic how all these religions are so good at debunking other religions, but do not apply the same critical eye towards their own doctrines and beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydroman74 Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 Our family cat went missing and we prayed and prayed that she would be alright. She was an indoor cat, and not used to the outdoors. After praying, I got a sense of peace and reassurance from the holy spirit that our cat would come home to us. I truly believed everything was going to be alright. About a day or two later, we got the horrible news that our cat was dead. She had only been in the home for six years, but it was long enough for us to feel quite the impact of the trauma. After receiving the news, I asked myself what that feeling of peace really was. It was then that I realized that I had made it all up on my own, most likely what everyone does. That was a really defining moment in my deconversion. Ahhh, the ole "feeling of peace" trick. My sister-in-law is a lesbian. My mother-in-law, her mother, is a die hard christian and doesn't know about her daughter's sexual preference. She was worrying about her daughter and thought that it was possible she was a lesbian so she prayed to god and god gave her peace that her daughter was straight. She doesn't know that we all know that the girl is a lesbian, and we aren't gonna tell her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonelee Posted April 3, 2010 Author Share Posted April 3, 2010 Yeah, that feeling of peace is a trick alright, but not a trick any god plays on us...we play it on ourselves. Too bad I couldn't see that earlier. Oh, and those are great links, centauri. Thanks for posting! This is my new tactic when talking to my Christian family and friends. These resources are wonderful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydroman74 Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 Yeah, that feeling of peace is a trick alright, but not a trick any god plays on us...we play it on ourselves. Exackery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoMuso Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 Yeah, that feeling of peace is a trick alright, but not a trick any god plays on us...we play it on ourselves. Most of the "spiritual" experiences in religion are as a result of these mental tricks. Feeling the "anointing" during worship, getting a "vision" or "word of knowledge", babbling in "tongues" (glossolalia), the "warm feeling" when others pray for you etc. Touched by God? I think just "touched" is enough hehe. Oh, and those are great links, centauri. Thanks for posting! Amen to that - thanks Centauri - must have taken ages to do that, but well worth the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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