Greatest I am Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 Are we here to serve God or is God to serve man? Some seem to think that man was created to serve or appease a need within God. To do as commanded and love and adore Him. They also indicate that if we do not do so, a resentful and vengeful God punishes those who will not do so forever. Christians tend to say, turn or burn while denying that there is a hell. Others think that God is here to serve man as savior and scapegoat that we ride into heaven. He serves to the point of dying for us while at the same time the Bible tells us that we are perfect. Something that most Christians do not believe. Why we, Gods perfect works would need saving, remains unanswered. Who is to be master and who is to be slave? Are we here to serve or to be served? Is the master to die for His slaves or are the slaves to die for the master? Regards DL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mriana Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 IMO we are here to help each other, but serve... I do not believe we should serve anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 Are we here to serve God or is God to serve man? Some seem to think that man was created to serve or appease a need within God. To do as commanded and love and adore Him. They also indicate that if we do not do so, a resentful and vengeful God punishes those who will not do so forever. Christians tend to say, turn or burn while denying that there is a hell. Others think that God is here to serve man as savior and scapegoat that we ride into heaven. He serves to the point of dying for us while at the same time the Bible tells us that we are perfect. Something that most Christians do not believe. Why we, Gods perfect works would need saving, remains unanswered. Who is to be master and who is to be slave? Are we here to serve or to be served? Is the master to die for His slaves or are the slaves to die for the master? Regards DL Pardon me for raining on your parade, but Man is an independent being with social abilities and needs that have resulted in a variety of relationships. Man can serve man, or lead man. Man can live alone or with people. Gods are thought experiments of men and so no one can serve these imagined creatures. Or else they are serving other men who are smart enough to use someones gullibility for self aggrandizement. Seneca the Younger - "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 11, 2010 Super Moderator Share Posted April 11, 2010 Are those the only two choices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 To serve Man. It's a cookbook! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 11, 2010 Super Moderator Share Posted April 11, 2010 I remember that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 I think we are born here without our consent ("Into this world were thrown . . . Riders on the storm" ) and it is up to us to decide why we are here. Many times the sheer force of government, social, religious and economic pressure so interferes with our choices that people adopt the belief that we are here to serve a god or that there is some preset "purpose" or "meaning" to life. There is no evidence for this and all testimony to such knowledge tends to be self-serving and subjective. I think the best code to live by is, "if you aren't going to pitch in an help, get out of the way and don't fuck things up for everyone else!" This is my personal belief. I believe it is the best moral and ethical position based on history. And, I think it would look great posted on the courthouse downtown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 The third door is: no one serves anyone. How could even humans serve an infinite, non-temporal, non-spatial, omnipresent, omniscient, supernatural being? What can we do that he can't do himself? Or does he suffer some deeper need or sadistic lust that only we can satisfy through servitude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest I am Posted April 11, 2010 Author Share Posted April 11, 2010 IMO we are here to help each other, but serve... I do not believe we should serve anyone. With respect---semantics. The last time I went to a restaurant, the waitress said, may I help you. I knew she meant, may I serve you. It may be that you put a more negative spin to serve than I do. You are right though that we are to help each other as much as possible. If only all walked that talk. Regards DL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest I am Posted April 11, 2010 Author Share Posted April 11, 2010 Are we here to serve God or is God to serve man? Some seem to think that man was created to serve or appease a need within God. To do as commanded and love and adore Him. They also indicate that if we do not do so, a resentful and vengeful God punishes those who will not do so forever. Christians tend to say, turn or burn while denying that there is a hell. Others think that God is here to serve man as savior and scapegoat that we ride into heaven. He serves to the point of dying for us while at the same time the Bible tells us that we are perfect. Something that most Christians do not believe. Why we, Gods perfect works would need saving, remains unanswered. Who is to be master and who is to be slave? Are we here to serve or to be served? Is the master to die for His slaves or are the slaves to die for the master? Regards DL Pardon me for raining on your parade, but Man is an independent being with social abilities and needs that have resulted in a variety of relationships. Man can serve man, or lead man. Man can live alone or with people. Gods are thought experiments of men and so no one can serve these imagined creatures. Or else they are serving other men who are smart enough to use someones gullibility for self aggrandizement. Seneca the Younger - "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." That is not rain friend. Good thinking is always sunlight. We do not disagree. I pose this as a moral question. Remember that intelligent people can discuss issues that they do not believe in. Regards DL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest I am Posted April 11, 2010 Author Share Posted April 11, 2010 Are those the only two choices? I have seen you wander through but never say anything. I guess some need a life without thought. You must be a believer. Regards DL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest I am Posted April 11, 2010 Author Share Posted April 11, 2010 I think we are born here without our consent ("Into this world were thrown . . . Riders on the storm" ) and it is up to us to decide why we are here. Many times the sheer force of government, social, religious and economic pressure so interferes with our choices that people adopt the belief that we are here to serve a god or that there is some preset "purpose" or "meaning" to life. There is no evidence for this and all testimony to such knowledge tends to be self-serving and subjective. I think the best code to live by is, "if you aren't going to pitch in an help, get out of the way and don't fuck things up for everyone else!" This is my personal belief. I believe it is the best moral and ethical position based on history. And, I think it would look great posted on the courthouse downtown. That is not a new position. Some say, lead, follow or get out of the way. If you want you saying in public you may have to take the fuck out of it. Regards DL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest I am Posted April 11, 2010 Author Share Posted April 11, 2010 The third door is: no one serves anyone. How could even humans serve an infinite, non-temporal, non-spatial, omnipresent, omniscient, supernatural being? What can we do that he can't do himself? Or does he suffer some deeper need or sadistic lust that only we can satisfy through servitude? Well, He can't stand before himself screaming I am sorry I did not do it your way. Please please don't burn me. I will live you if you don't. Regards DL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 The third door is: no one serves anyone. How could even humans serve an infinite, non-temporal, non-spatial, omnipresent, omniscient, supernatural being? What can we do that he can't do himself? Or does he suffer some deeper need or sadistic lust that only we can satisfy through servitude? Well, He can't stand before himself screaming I am sorry I did not do it your way. Please please don't burn me. I will live you if you don't. Regards DL How can anyone "stand" in a non-temporal, non-spatial existence? How can anyone "say" anything in a non-oxygen, non-atmosphere, non-temporal place? How can a "soul" be "burned" in a non-environment? Or are we assuming that we will have bodies, in a physical 3-dimension, space-time universe, just like here, after death? And that's how God exists too since we can talk to him there face-to-face? And again, why would a being who got everything need anything, like slaves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mriana Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 IMO we are here to help each other, but serve... I do not believe we should serve anyone. With respect---semantics. The last time I went to a restaurant, the waitress said, may I help you. I knew she meant, may I serve you. It may be that you put a more negative spin to serve than I do. You are right though that we are to help each other as much as possible. If only all walked that talk. Regards DL I probably do put a more negative spin on it. I see serve equal to servant. Servants/slaves do not have a choice, but the waitress you spoke of does have a choice. She doesn't have to do that job. She can find other work or get training to find other work. Helping someone is a matter of choice, if one is capable of helping that person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 11, 2010 Super Moderator Share Posted April 11, 2010 Are those the only two choices? I have seen you wander through but never say anything. I guess some need a life without thought. You must be a believer. Regards DL You leave me speechless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoMuso Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 Are we here to serve God or is God to serve man? Your question makes the assumption that "God" exists - so ... you're joking right? If some ignorant humans want to invent an invisible "Being" floating around the universe, they can serve "Him" all they like. But leave the rest of us (i.e. non-deluded people) out of the equation please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franko47 Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Are those the only two choices? I have seen you wander through but never say anything. I guess some need a life without thought. You must be a believer. Regards DL You leave me speechless. Florduh serves the mighty Hubbard, now. Nothing to worry about. Your concept is a little bit limited, making the choice one way or the other. I suppose that many religious people (and I at one time thought this way) that it was more a system of symbiosis; that I could in one way serve and please the mighty god-being, and in return I would benefit in vivid ways as well as mysterious ways. I don't think that the idea was ever really about total "servitude" to a higher power without getting SOMETHING in return. Most religious people don't really see it as "God serving Man", since pretty well the few little gestures that God has dropped on us would be no sweat for a timeless and infinitely powerful god. Not sure this thread question really reflects what this kind of relationship between a supposed God and "Man" is really about. Dog owners spend more time in a day "serving" their dog, like walking it, feeding it, building and maintaining a dog house, than anything the "dog" does in return....heck, my cat pulls decent service time from me. But nobody would ever say that we existed to "serve our pet". Reciprocity is a necessary feature of any religious system, I would think. You might ask Enki's alien friend, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 As a xian I would have said, that mankind has its purpose in doing gods will. On the other hand I would have said that god has no need for human service. He has all he needs and it is good for human beings to serve god, because that is their purpose. That would have been my xian answer. If there is a god, then we do not know enough about him to answer your question. Right now I think, that people who serve "god" serve themselves for different reasons and as an extra gain, they serve others. Their service for god fills some needs inside of them or makes them feel secure. There could be hundreds of reasons. If there is a god, than it is a strange concept, that he needs our service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 I think we are born here without our consent ("Into this world were thrown . . . Riders on the storm" ) and it is up to us to decide why we are here. Many times the sheer force of government, social, religious and economic pressure so interferes with our choices that people adopt the belief that we are here to serve a god or that there is some preset "purpose" or "meaning" to life. There is no evidence for this and all testimony to such knowledge tends to be self-serving and subjective. I think the best code to live by is, "if you aren't going to pitch in an help, get out of the way and don't fuck things up for everyone else!" This is my personal belief. I believe it is the best moral and ethical position based on history. And, I think it would look great posted on the courthouse downtown. That is not a new position. Some say, lead, follow or get out of the way. If you want you saying in public you may have to take the fuck out of it. Regards DL But the "f" word makes it so much more colorful and entertaining! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanakila Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 But you’re gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed You’re gonna have to serve somebody, Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord But you’re gonna have to serve somebody. Chorus to a Bob Dylan song popped in my head reading this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanakila Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Btw, I've been waiting for God to show up. Can't serve a non-existent being. I can think I am, but really be serving to promote a belief system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Are we here to serve God or is God to serve man? Some seem to think that man was created to serve or appease a need within God. I wonder, are you sure you're a Deist and not a Theist? Because my understanding is that Deism consider God as the beginning/creator of the universe, but then God pretty much left it all alone. God doesn't interact with us, and we have no obligation to him/her/it. While Theists usually believe that God still interacts with nature, and we must, as humans, obey and serve him. So your argument sounds very much like a Theist and not a Deist. Unless I got it completely wrong... To do as commanded and love and adore Him. They also indicate that if we do not do so, a resentful and vengeful God punishes those who will not do so forever. Christians tend to say, turn or burn while denying that there is a hell. As would many theists and monotheistic believers. Others think that God is here to serve man as savior and scapegoat that we ride into heaven. He serves to the point of dying for us while at the same time the Bible tells us that we are perfect. Something that most Christians do not believe. Why we, Gods perfect works would need saving, remains unanswered. I agree there. It's kind of strange when Christians argue that a proof for God's existence is how perfect the world is, but then they argue we're sinful and evil and need saving. Their arguments are not very consistent. Is the master to die for His slaves or are the slaves to die for the master? We kill the master by realizing and admitting that the master is only a figment of our imagination. That's how we kill Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 Y not ask him (Greatestwhatever) about his 'thing' with the letter Y? Happy now, DL? BAA. Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest I am Posted April 13, 2010 Author Share Posted April 13, 2010 The third door is: no one serves anyone. How could even humans serve an infinite, non-temporal, non-spatial, omnipresent, omniscient, supernatural being? What can we do that he can't do himself? Or does he suffer some deeper need or sadistic lust that only we can satisfy through servitude? Well, He can't stand before himself screaming I am sorry I did not do it your way. Please please don't burn me. I will live you if you don't. Regards DL How can anyone "stand" in a non-temporal, non-spatial existence? How can anyone "say" anything in a non-oxygen, non-atmosphere, non-temporal place? How can a "soul" be "burned" in a non-environment? Or are we assuming that we will have bodies, in a physical 3-dimension, space-time universe, just like here, after death? And that's how God exists too since we can talk to him there face-to-face? And again, why would a being who got everything need anything, like slaves? He would not. Thus the idiocy of thinking we are here to serve God. Bible God that is. If God = rules/law and governments = rules/law Then I would say that we are all here to serve law. That means keeping to it when we think it right and breaking it if we think it wrong. Regards DL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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