I Am Dangerously Close To Biting Someone's Head Off!

[fallenleaf]

This has been a long week for me. Wednesday night my mom went into the hospital. By Thursday morning, we knew she had cancer (lymphoma). Then it has been a blur of family and medical stuff since then. To make matters worse, the situation has brought out the religious bullshit. At one point my aunt was screaming in my face, in the hospital room, that I needed to convert before God struck me down. My response was, "Bring it on... I've been fucking waiting!"

 

 

Here's an example, one of many, from an email I received today:

If you feel like going to a really great, casual church, you should try ours. It's [. . .] AWESOME!!! You feel like you're home from the minute you step foot in it. And you can dress in shorts and sandals. You should try it no matter what. But especially now.

(emph. mine)

 

Here is my rant because I can't stand around and say it to them. All day at work and from family. It is going to be so lonely in the next few weeks and possibly months.

 

----------

 

Yes, my mom has cancer. No, I do not want to become a Christian.

 

I am not an atheist because I am going through a phase. I am not getting my thrills by playing a spiritual game of "chicken" with my soul. Just because I am scared and worried about my mom does not mean I am looking for a spiritual answer.

 

I am not hurt or bitter. I am not an atheist because I want to be rebellious or to shock you. I am not an atheist because I want to sleep in on Sunday mornings. I am an atheist because I do not believe in God.

 

My pain is not an invitation for you to proselytize. Just because this is a hard time for me does not mean I am suddenly going to look for relief in your mythology. I am also not seeking solace in Allah, Shiva, Santa, or any other such figure. You would not be seeking solace in any of those either. If you were in pain and I was to suggest that this was a time for you to become a Hindu, you would find it insulting and absurd.

 

I do not want to hear it. Yes, I love my mother very much. No, you may not attempt to use that as emotional blackmail to try and convert me.

 

I am not an atheist because I am angry. If you want to see me get angry, start by suggesting that your God gave my mom cancer (or allowed her to get it). And that he did this to teach me something. Then you should suggest that I start worshiping this God and should love him. You want to see a fucking angry atheist?!? Well, that is one way to do it.

[par4dcourse]

The post above doesn't sound like a rant to me at all. It sounds like a very rational take on a bad situation.

 

Xians aren't known for being rational and I understand having to sound it out here. Hope it works out well.

[oddbird1963]

I think you put together a very rational sounding post.

 

If you took out some of the curse words, and chose some examples that didn't make it seem like you trivialize the Christian faith, it would be emailable/deliverable to your family.

 

I really think it would involve changing just a handful of words.

 

 

It might do some good, after things have resolved with your mother.

 

But the important thing is, I am sorry for the pain and uncertainty you are going through. My best wishes and regards to you.

[fallenleaf]

I think you put together a very rational sounding post.

 

If you took out some of the curse words, and chose some examples that didn't make it seem like you trivialize the Christian faith, it would be emailable/deliverable to your family.

 

I really think it would involve changing just a handful of words.

 

 

It might do some good, after things have resolved with your mother.

 

My mail problem right now is with work people. And those are people that I am willing to just let the matter be. I decline all the invites and just move on.

 

When it comes to family, they know my position. And I have already made the choice to not pussyfoot around the issue for their comfort. Several years ago, when we thought my father was on his deathbed, I made that choice. And even though it was hard for everyone around me, I refused to pretend for them. It was slightly easier because my dad is atheist/agnostic and was on my side. I did get a lot of "pretend so your father can get saved in case he dies" bullshit but I got really good at telling people to fuck off. He eventually pulled through and we both get a kick out of it today.

 

I am much closer to my mom and she is a devout Christian. But even now, I have sat down with her and told her that I love her more than I can say and that I can't and won't pretend for her.

 

My step-mother told me that I should pretend to make my mom feel better in case she dies. My response was, "If she dies, I am going to be the one who has to live the rest of my life knowing that one of the last things I said to her was a lie."

 

My step-mother was like, "Oh... when you put it that way it sounds really bad."

 

I responded, "Well, when you ask me to lie about something like that... it sounds that bad."

 

 

I have spent several years trying to explain atheism to my family in nice ways. At this point, I don't give a flying fish fuck about being gentle or kind. I'm quick to bring out the profanity and the belittling. That first post was about the kindest manner I would even bother using. I'm done with sweet words and soothing conversations. I would rather make it unpleasant and uncomfortable for them so they back off and end it quickly. May they rot in the hell they have created.

 

But the important thing is, I am sorry for the pain and uncertainty you are going through. My best wishes and regards to you.

 

Thank you. I am waiting for the biopsy and then the results to know exactly what the situation is. Right now, the waiting is harder than anything else.

[Carmen]

This just makes me so mad! Granted, most of these people probably have good intentions, but often religious people think that the only way to comfort a grieving person is to give them the magic religious band-aid. I bet it is just as frustrating when people say "she's going to a better place."

[lunaticheathen]

Ugh, I'm constantly disgusted that christards use the pain and fear of others as a way in for their magic zombie religion. I have my own beliefs, but I've gotten my share of "well haven't you asked for JEEEEEBUS to fix it?"

Fucking disgusting. And there really isn't a religious ideal that makes the illness and possible death of a family member any easier to deal with. Christards are fooling themselves.

In any case, I'm sorry for your troubles, and wish peace and love to both you and your mother - and for the meddling family members/coworkers to leave you alone to make your own peace. We're always here to rant to. :hugs:

[ContraBardus]

You're more tolerant to this kind of thing that I am.

 

I punched one of my Uncles in the face for pulling this kind of thing with me when my Grandmother was getting close.

 

I put up with it for a couple of days, my whole family was doing it, but he's a Deacon and was much more forceful about it and in my face the whole time.

 

After a few days, I told them to leave me the hell alone, and mentioned that trying to use her condition to push it on me was severely pissing me off. I told them that the situation was bad enough, and I didn't need to deal with their proselytizing bullshit as well. They were not going to win any conversions by pushing it on me at a time like that, and that if they tried it again, I wasn't going to put up with it. It worked for the one or two hours we were there for that day.

 

The next day after I said it, my Uncle got in my face in the hospital. I put up with it because of where we were. He was pushing me off to a corner of the waiting room and ranting at me in the without raising his voice much.

 

He backed off while we were visiting her, but took every opportunity he could find to corner me and try to guilt trip and scare me back to God.

 

After we left, he followed me out, ranting about my soul and how my Grandmother worried and felt about it. He said I should think about her and find my way back to God for her sake. I laid him out on his back in the parking lot of the Hospital. I told him that I'd warned him and that I'd do it again if he tried to push that shit on me when things like that were going on, and then I left him there and drove off. I saw my family helping him up as I did so.

 

About two weeks later my Grandmother died.

 

After I hit him no one bothered me again until the Funeral service. My mother tried to bring it up and all I had to do was say 'not now' and she stopped. Hasn't happened again since at a time like that.

 

I'm not saying you should, just sharing what happened to me. I don't know how your family might react to something like that.

 

I think my Aunt still holds it against me a little, but not my Uncle. She's gotten a little colder since, but it's not the complete cold shoulder either. We're still civil, but I've noticed she's never alone in the same room as me since. He's never apologized for how he has acted, but doesn't seem to hold a grudge about it. I don't really want an apology, and don't expect one either. I'm not sorry I did it either, and have never felt bad about it. No one has said anything about it since it happened.

 

It didn't stop it completely. My family still bugs me about my 'lack of faith' [They won't use the word Atheism or call me an Atheist.] sometimes in E-mails or when I see them, including my Uncle. However, none of my family bothers me at funerals or at the deathbed [or hospital bed] of anyone with any sort of proselytizing anymore.

[Shyone]

I think you put together a very rational sounding post.

 

If you took out some of the curse words, and chose some examples that didn't make it seem like you trivialize the Christian faith, it would be emailable/deliverable to your family.

 

I really think it would involve changing just a handful of words.

 

 

It might do some good, after things have resolved with your mother.

 

But the important thing is, I am sorry for the pain and uncertainty you are going through. My best wishes and regards to you.

If I were being personally confronted, I would make up cards with this written on it and pass them around. When they ignore the writing, say, "there is none so blind as he (she) who will not read."

[fallenleaf]

I should have some little index cards with this on it. But they won't read it and I am not that prepared for things (not with physical artifacts at least). I am perfectly capable of verbally defending myself when needed.

 

If I was to print it out, I would probably change the first line from "Yes, my mom has cancer. No, I do not want to become a Christian." to "Yes, my mom has cancer. No, I do not want to convert to your religion." I think it provides a more direct statement that calls attention to what they are doing. I could even have a little business card with just that statement on it. LOL

 

My mom goes in for her surgical biopsy Thursday morning. I assume I'll be hassled around that time as well. But maybe not. I might just try and remind them that the attention should be on her and not me. I am not the one who is sick.

[godlessgrrl]

I'm sorry your mom is sick. Keeping fingers crossed for the best possible outcome.

 

Proselytizers are like vultures, circling around the ill and the vulnerable, just waiting for a moment to land and start plucking at whatever morsels they can.

 

Only thing is, vultures are actually beneficial animals.

[Legion]

Oh man Fallen, I hate to hear about this and I'm sorry that I've not been around lately. I've been seeing some tough times myself.

 

Anyway, I'll PM you man.

[mwc]

My mom goes in for her surgical biopsy Thursday morning. I assume I'll be hassled around that time as well. But maybe not. I might just try and remind them that the attention should be on her and not me. I am not the one who is sick.

Sorry to hear about your mom. My dad had cancer last year (I think next week he goes in for his one year follow-up).

 

Try to ignore these other idiots and focus on helping your mom get through all this. I'm pretty sure seeing an atheist getting through all these sorts of problems (ie. dealing with life and death) without the help of a magical helper monkey really confuses the shit out of these people.

 

mwc

[Deva]

I am sorry to hear of your Mom's situation Fallenleaf. Like Legion I have not read or posted as much lately since I have fallen upon some hard times also.

It is terrible that Christians use situations like this to proselytize. Like Gwen said, it is like they are vultures.

 

It is true that a lot of people do not know how to handle situations like this. They don't know what to say so instead of keeping a prudent silence or saying something innocuous like "my thoughts are with you and your Mom" it is something stupid like "God has a plan". Jeez, that kind of thing is so stupid I want to tear my hair out and that's the truth. Still, also I think that if someone started screaming in my face as you describe, I would reflect on how this person has no means to cope with the situation other than by trying to get everyone to believe. How sad. How ignorant.

 

As others have said, try to be there for your Mom. Be present, listen to her and help her any way you can. I am afraid that's all the advice I have.

[HRDWarrior]

I hope things improve for your mom, must be tough - I've dealt with many forms of death and cancer in relatives, but not my actual parents. Sounds like you're hanging in there and being there for her, which I'm sure means a lot to her right now.

 

Seems like you've got your family pretty much under control as well, sometimes the clear, blunt statement of "I'm not discussing that right now." and then ignoring them works wonders.

[fallenleaf]

What a couple of weeks. My mom has stage 4 follicular lymphoma. It's in her bone marrow and her liver on top of the lymphatic system. That sucks but even at this stage, around 50% of the time the chemo can cure it. So we're going down that road. This last week, she had her first 3 day session of chemo. Now we wait a few weeks and then she goes for another. We'll be repeating that 8 times.

 

I've been pretty good. Well, that's a lie. It comes and goes. Right now, I feel pretty good but other times I am worried about her. But I have been nice to the believers... direct, in many cases, but nice.

 

I just need to wait it out and see how things go in the end. I am on edge for someone to really put the pressure on me to convert because I am going bite their head off. But they haven't... or they start and I shut them down with a comment about not being interested.

 

I am not shocked that they believe I'm likely to seek God in a time such as this. But they don't even have the slightest comprehension about what it really means to not believe. People seek answers from the set of beliefs and understandings that they hold. I believe in science and medicine... I understand how life isn't fair and bad things happen and there isn't much we can do. That's the schema I am working with... there's no "God" concept to turn to.

[Loren]

I'm so sorry to hear this, Fallen. The chemo rounds are probably going to be pretty hard.

 

And I agree with Gwen about them being vulture-like. It's sick what religion does to people.

[dichotomy]

Fallen, I'm really sorry to hear about your mum, what a horrible few weeks for you all. i'm equally sorry to read that this is all made even more difficult fro you by 'the believers' I hope that after your direct *but nice* words they will step back and stop. Not much else to say really, just my thoughts are with you and I hope your mum pulls through all this. xxx

[fallenleaf]

Update time:

 

It's been over 14 months since I wrote this. It was a rough ride at times. But my mom is still alive and currently in remission. A man diagnosed with a similar form of cancer the same week she was didn't make it. They were both given the same basic odds from the start but my mom's cancer responded to the treatments and his never did. When she was finally seeing the end of the tunnel (in September), he was breathing his last breath. It was a brutal reminder that it could have been the end for my mother as well.

 

I decided to count the number of times I prayed or sought a spiritual solution during the last 14 months. ZERO... that was easy.

 

I can't prove that to the Christians who deeply believe that I must have prayed and turned to "God" when alone and in the dark nights when I couldn't sleep because of the worry. But I don't really need to prove it to them. That is something they don't understand. But I don't write letters to Santa when I can't afford Christmas presents... and I don't pray to God when I want something outside my control.

 

Right now, life is good. I treasure each day my family has together. It could have gone the other way. Hell, this is cancer we're talking about... things could still go the other way.

 

Did I get bugged by the believers? From time to time but they backed off for the most part. I did have a family member ask me to read the book, I Don't have Enough Faith to be an Atheist. I pointed out to her that I not only read it but wrote a review of it, from an atheist's perspective, for a Christian website. That ended her proselytism.

[chosendarkness]

I'm very sorry to hear about your mother, I know what it's like. I absolutely hate it when Christians try to take advantage of people when they're weak to push their religion, no matter how much they think they're helping. Goddamn brainwashing everywhere.

 

OOPS just realized this was an old thread! That's AWESOME!! I'm glad things are working out right now. That's always a HUGE relief.

[Deva]

I am glad your mother is doing well, Fallenleaf. I absolutely dread when my parents (who are 77) start going downhill, for a number of reasons but particularly the attempts to re-convert me, which I KNOW will come.

 

This is why I am now going to try to establish a closer relationship with my brother. Maybe he can understand and help me handle it. He is a Christian but I don't see him as the fundy type. Could be wrong though. Just don't know him very well.

[fallenleaf]

LOL, yeah it's an old thread. I wanted to post some good news on here. I'm quick to come here and rant about the shit going on around me but not quick enough to celebrate the good things.

 

[R. S. Martin]

LOL, yeah it's an old thread. I wanted to post some good news on here. I'm quick to come here and rant about the shit going on around me but not quick enough to celebrate the good things.

 

 

You sound fairly chipper at the moment, so I take it you didn't actually bite off someone's head, as you say in the title you just might do. I mean, you don't sound like you're writing from a jail cell...Just kidding.