How Do You Address People's 'subjective' God Experiences?

[Journey]

As I continue to gently unveil my recent discoveries and convictions about god, the bible and christianity in general to my husband of 25 years - I am thinking of how to respond to his latest response. I asked about his conversion experience (though have heard it before)and what convinced him that god was real. He responded by saying that after searching - god 'told him' that he loved him in an audible voice.

 

He came from a broken family that was very dysfunctional and he said he never thought someone would love him and this convinced him god was real. He then started attending a 'charasmatic/evangelical' church that a co-worker had asked him to come to and then he was 'moved' by the genuine love and relationship people had with god. He also said there were two men that sat on either side of him in the service where he went forward, he now believes they were angels as they were gone when he finished crying at the alter ... I don't mean to be-little, he had a rough childhood. The feeling of 'love' he felt from the 'father' was very real to him in that service and that's his conviction that christianity is true.

 

I feel my next question to bring up is, how does he know it was the 'god of the bible' or the jewish/christian god who told him he loved him. Did he just assume it was?

 

This is the toughest part about coming out of a long history of radical chrisitanity when it involves those that you love who are a big part of that history. we would never of met and married if it wasn't for the mission organization we wer involved with. A big part of my attraction was that he was a 'sold out' christian.

[Guest Valk0010]

As I continue to gently unveil my recent discoveries and convictions about god, the bible and christianity in general to my husband of 25 years - I am thinking of how to respond to his latest response. I asked about his conversion experience (though have heard it before)and what convinced him that god was real. He responded by saying that after searching - god 'told him' that he loved him in an audible voice.

 

He came from a broken family that was very dysfunctional and he said he never thought someone would love him and this convinced him god was real. He then started attending a 'charasmatic/evangelical' church that a co-worker had asked him to come to and then he was 'moved' by the genuine love and relationship people had with god. He also said there were two men that sat on either side of him in the service where he went forward, he now believes they were angels as they were gone when he finished crying at the alter ... I don't mean to be-little, he had a rough childhood. The feeling of 'love' he felt from the 'father' was very real to him in that service and that's his conviction that christianity is true.

 

I feel my next question to bring up is, how does he know it was the 'god of the bible' or the jewish/christian god who told him he loved him. Did he just assume it was?

 

This is the toughest part about coming out of a long history of radical chrisitanity when it involves those that you love who are a big part of that history. we would never of met and married if it wasn't for the mission organization we wer involved with. A big part of my attraction was that he was a 'sold out' christian.

Ask him about other religions subjective experiences with there god, and ask if you can subjective experience as proof of religion, can they as well.

[oddbird1963]

Subjective experiences are untestable and unprovable. They are real to the individual, but only a willingness to thoughtfully look into the experience of people in other religions will make them consider that possibly their subjective experience means something else than , "the god I worship is the true god."

 

Add to that the very real need to feel loved and accepted. To admit that others have experiences the same way as you might mean, to the subject, that they aren't loved. And if that's what they need, that thought may be unbearable.

 

It's a tough process.

[Shyone]

You certainly picked the most difficult "argument" for God: The argument from personal experience.

 

Unfortunately, it is so personal that it defies refutation. You really can't tell them they didn't really experience anything.

 

Here are a few questions, including what has already been mentioned, that might make him see this is not a voice from God.

 

1. Did anyone else hear the voice?

2. Do other religions' revelations by "voices" verify the veracity of those religions?

3. Which direction did the voice come from? (If he says no particular direction, ask, "Inside your head?")

4. Why doesn't God speak to everyone?

5. Has He spoken to him since? (What did He say?)

6. Does he hear any other voices?

7. Did he have imaginary friends as a child?

8. What, or who, did the voice sound like? Male or Female? Young or Old?

9. If the voice told him to kill [your or your children], would he?

10. Did Phillip Garrido, who kidnapped Jayce Duggard and held her for 18 years, speak with God as he claimed?

11. Does he discount the experiences of those who have spoken to and seen aliens?

 

Incidentally, if he says something like, "God would never..." then he already "knows" what God would say or do. How does he know that? Did God tell him, or did he just get that from his own head?

 

Also, "People never report these types of personal revelations from deities that they have had little or no previous cultural exposure to, for example a Muslim in Saudi Arabia reporting an encounter with the Holy Spirit, or a Mormon reporting a vision of Vishnu. This suggests that one's memory of such experiences is heavily influenced by one's pre-existing belief system." You might ask, in greater detail, if he thinks that his belief in God might have been partially responsible for the fact that he heard Yahweh instead of another god.

 

Several medical conditions, including brain tumors, chemical imbalance, seizures and schizophrenia can result in auditory hallucinations. You might ask him if we should take the word of all people who have ever heard a voice that supposedly came from God.

 

I would expect to encounter a brick wall. "I know what I heard, and it was God, not a hallucination. Other people's experiences have no bearing on what I heard. I'm not sick or insane."

 

OTOH, if he says that he would kill you or your children if ordered to do so by the voice, consider leaving him and taking your children.

[Ray]

The Atheist Pocket Debater iPhone app has an excellent section on The Argument From Personal Experience. It gives responses to every imaginable claim. As far as your particular question, This response is contained in the app:

 

"“God speaks to me”

 

The Creator of the Universe communicates with you? How? Is it that voice inside your head? We know humans think in language. We know that the average person can think anywhere from 80 to 800 words per minute. If indeed, some of these words in your brain are coming from God, how do you know which ones are from God? The brain creates thought; why is it reasonable to believe some of these thoughts are not from your brain but are coming in from outside of your brain? Everyone has internal dialogue; I have daily conversations with myself, however, I believe the thoughts are all my own, created in my brain, and they come from my experiences based on my perception of the world.

 

How can you be sure it is not just your inner dialogue you are confusing with God?"

 

 

You can check out many of the features of the app in this promo video for the app here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uo9OV-QMK0

[ClaraOlive]

I actually find personal experience Christians the easiest to deal with because I never was able to have any sense of god's presence or love. If they came to Christianity because of a personal experience, they probably didn't have a great intellectual knowledge of religion before that. And in fact, the Bible implies that people needn't come to Christianity because of a list of tenets, but because they've had a revelation of Jesus (preaching nothing but Christ and him crucified, right?)

 

If those are the kind of evidences they accept, it's easiest to keep your explanation on the same level - you're not having any religious experience, maybe they could ask god to send you one. I know that some people here don't like being prayed for, but you'll be a big unanswered difficulty on their prayer list Most people realize quickly enough that they can't have an experience for another person, so they're reduced to praying and hoping and aren't as likely as the apologist type to try to "prove" god into existence.

 

With a husband, that would be more difficult, but I think that with someone so emotionally connected to his experience, I would just talk about myself and not push him to question his beliefs right now. The fact that you don't believe and you're still a good person who loves him will speak louder than anything, I think.

[skepticalme]

I would point out that people of every religion have these experiences as well. Does it prove that thier religions are correct? Or is it pareidolia? Put someone in a desert for long enough and they will start to see water. If the desire for something is great enough then the brain will manufacture it.