Asimov Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Hello Everyone, as a member of Christianforums.com, I have the opportunity to be witness to some amazing amounts of stupidity. In regards to morality...We all know that if God is good, it would be necessary to create a dualistic idea of something that is evil in order to create the idea of evil...this cannot be accepted by Christians because there is only God. The problem with this then is that we must accept that God isn't just good, which is bad for Christians. The Christian I spoke to stated that since God never actually defines himself as Good, it can be safe to assume that God only created Good and Evil for the purpose of human experience, and that God is amoral...that is, he is not a moral entity. Well, thanks for digging yourself deeper into the shithole, Mr. Christian, as you have now provided a fatal blow to Christian Theology. Not only is the idea of morality not absolute, but it is as they accuse atheists of believing; that morality is subjective. Since God does not base morality on anything absolute (himself included), it is merely the whim of the Creator that morality even exists. So where is this moral absolute now, Christians??? Either you run the risk of believing in a being that contradicts itself, or you run the risk of believing in Dualism, or you run the risk of believing in subjective morals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Okay.... so morality only applies to us mere mortals? So the supreme being can do whatever he wishes according to whim. And they cannot be held accountable for anything they do because morality doesn't apply to such a being. Only a pea-brain christian can hold that thought in their brain without a truly deserved shiver going up the spine. Such blithe ignorance belongs to cows on the way to the slaughterhouse. Bad things happen to beings living in ignorant bliss. Very bad things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UnTied Methodist Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 The Christian I spoke to stated that since God never actually defines himself as Good, it can be safe to assume that God only created Good and Evil for the purpose of human experience, and that God is amoral...that is, he is not a moral entity. It would seem that the Christian with whom you spoke is not the "sharpest knife in the drawer". This particular Christian definitely went against Scripture with his/her answer to you regarding God's goodness. After all, Jesus says in Matthew 19:17: “Why ask me about what is good? Only God is good." Not really up to entering this particular fray at the moment... just thought I'd point out the lack of biblical knowledge on this person's part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted September 19, 2005 Author Share Posted September 19, 2005 It would seem that the Christian with whom you spoke is not the "sharpest knife in the drawer". This particular Christian definitely went against Scripture with his/her answer to you regarding God's goodness. After all, Jesus says in Matthew 19:17: “Why ask me about what is good? Only God is good." Not really up to entering this particular fray at the moment... just thought I'd point out the lack of biblical knowledge on this person's part. Yet you fail to acknowledge that by stating that God is good, you are entering into a duality unless you admit that God is also evil...if he is both, then he is no better than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted September 19, 2005 Author Share Posted September 19, 2005 also like to point out that we weren't discussing the bible, but rather logical concepts regarding morality and his belief in God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted September 19, 2005 Author Share Posted September 19, 2005 Sorry, Asimov. It wasn't a rebuke toward you, it was just a comment in regards to UnTied's statements about unbiblicality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UnTied Methodist Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 The Christian I spoke to stated that since God never actually defines himself as Good... My bad. Somehow I must have mistakenly assumed that the Christian in question got this idea from the Bible. I shouldn't have jumped in and tried to refute what I thought was the basis of this argument... because I was evidently misguided in my assumption as to where the argument originated. My apologies for going out on a limb like that... note to self: You are such a ! Stay out of these things. Leave the logic to the experts. If you ever think you understand something here again, stop yourself and realize that you don't. Moron. Idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted September 19, 2005 Author Share Posted September 19, 2005 My bad. Somehow I must have mistakenly assumed that the Christian in question got this idea from the Bible. I shouldn't have jumped in and tried to refute what I thought was the basis of this argument... because I was evidently misguided in my assumption as to where the argument originated. My apologies for going out on a limb like that... note to self: You are such a ! Stay out of these things. Leave the logic to the experts. If you ever think you understand something here again, stop yourself and realize that you don't. Moron. Idiot. You were right in saying that he got that specific idea from the bible...but the gist of the argument that were were having was not a biblical one. So you're statement is ultimately right, it's just irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 I always thought that christians believed objective morality is whatever god wants it to be, they just didn't care that that was so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted September 20, 2005 Author Share Posted September 20, 2005 I always thought that christians believed objective morality is whatever god wants it to be, they just didn't care that that was so. Depends on the xtian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Shadow Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Hello Everyone, as a member of Christianforums.com, I have the opportunity to be witness to some amazing amounts of stupidity. In regards to morality...We all know that if God is good, it would be necessary to create a dualistic idea of something that is evil in order to create the idea of evil...this cannot be accepted by Christians because there is only God. The problem with this then is that we must accept that God isn't just good, which is bad for Christians. The Christian I spoke to stated that since God never actually defines himself as Good, it can be safe to assume that God only created Good and Evil for the purpose of human experience, and that God is amoral...that is, he is not a moral entity. Well, thanks for digging yourself deeper into the shithole, Mr. Christian, as you have now provided a fatal blow to Christian Theology. Not only is the idea of morality not absolute, but it is as they accuse atheists of believing; that morality is subjective. Since God does not base morality on anything absolute (himself included), it is merely the whim of the Creator that morality even exists. So where is this moral absolute now, Christians??? Either you run the risk of believing in a being that contradicts itself, or you run the risk of believing in Dualism, or you run the risk of believing in subjective morals. Yes Asimov the main failing in Xtianity that I have noticed is that Xtians fail to see or admit that God is the originator of good and evil. The question I have is that how can something that is only pure and good create evil?? It is a contradiction so that in itself nullifies Xtianity, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_funkenstein Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Playing devil's advocate (how ironic) this would have been my answer during my time as a Christian: First we would need to define good and evil. Christians define good as the will of god, and evil as anything that goes against the will of god. Therefore the existence of evil in the world is explained by the need for free will, so that humans can willingly choose to serve god by doing his will. So in a roundabout way, God allows the existence of evil in the world as a kind of "refining process" whereby those who choose not to follow his will are destroyed, but those who do follow his will are preserved, and granted some measure of authority in the ruling of the universe. I would have then gone on to use the illustration of the parable of the two houses (one on rock, one on sand), as well as biblical illustrations (I don't remember where) that talk about what we build being tested in fire, and only what is pure and of value (ie gold, jewels) remaining. There is also something to do with the receiving of a crown, and the measure of the size of the crown has something to do with the measure of authority you receive in the afterlife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antihero Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Playing devil's advocate (how ironic) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not really. Did you notice that you have horns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted September 21, 2005 Author Share Posted September 21, 2005 Playing devil's advocate (how ironic) this would have been my answer during my time as a Christian: First we would need to define good and evil. Christians define good as the will of god, and evil as anything that goes against the will of god. Therefore the existence of evil in the world is explained by the need for free will, so that humans can willingly choose to serve god by doing his will. The problem with this then, is that you don't have an absolute good or evil, because it is based on what God wants....so killing is good when God says it is, and raping and anything else, but it is also evil when God says it is. There's no absolute then, and it is arbitrary. Christian don't allow for relative morals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest queen annie Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 From Dictionary.com: mor·al Audio pronunciation of "moral" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (môrl, mr-)adj. 1. Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary. 2. Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson. 3. Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous: a moral life. 4. Arising from conscience or the sense of right and wrong: a moral obligation. 5. Having psychological rather than physical or tangible effects: a moral victory; moral support. 6. Based on strong likelihood or firm conviction, rather than on the actual evidence: a moral certainty. The christian idea of morality is no more correct than how they represent God--they obviously still define God according to themselves and like that much better than the truth. They do immeasurable damage in this way. The god of christianity is made in the image of man--it's supposed to be the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 The problem with this then, is that you don't have an absolute good or evil, because it is based on what God wants....so killing is good when God says it is, and raping and anything else, but it is also evil when God says it is. There's no absolute then, and it is arbitrary. Exactemundo. And also, if a God-believer do evil acts, they are also considered good. Take Moses as an example, he killed an egyptian, but God never punished him for it. Unless you count the 40 years in solitude as a nomad before he got back and led Israel in exodus. (supposedly) And then God tells Moses, "thou shall not kill". Why didn't God get upset with Moses and told you "You stupid, you fucked it all up! You're not supposed to kill!" But No! God doesn't do that to his own. Why? Because God's will is the same as his followers will, not the reversed. Christianity doesn't make people good, people make people good .. or evil. Religion is only an after-the-fact and false explanation to why we do good or evil. Christian don't allow for relative morals. Except within their own religion. Murder is wrong, unless God tells you to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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