Titus 1:15?

[sangheili_asylum]

I'd like some opinions on what this verse truly means, mainly because I feel that my Christian friend may have used it wrong, but I don't know.

 

"To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted."

 

All right so the meaning appears pretty obvious, as there is no weird symbolism or strange, large words. However, this "friend" (used to be my mentor) would tell me that SHE could watch South Park and Family Guy and go to parties where there was sex and drinking (as long as she didn't get drunk or have sex) because "to the pure, all things are pure." She quoted that verse many times, always to justify her "observance" of bad behavior as long as she did not actively participate. I remember my mom telling me not to hang around bad influences, and I'm pretty sure the bible says that too, although I don't know where so I can't be sure. But was this girl wrong to quote it this way? If so, then that infuriates me cause she would criticize me and tell me what to do while she could do whatever she wanted. If she was right, then it's another reason the bible is morally STUPID!

[Guest Valk0010]

Umm I can't see how sin could become pure in any sense,ever, if we are talking biblically. In short your friend is dead wrong.

[Overcame Faith]

Here's that verse in context:

 

Titus 1

10For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group. 11They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain. 12Even one of their own prophets has said, "Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons." 13This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith 14and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth. 15To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. 16They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

 

I think verse 16 proves that your friend misinterpreted the verse. The relevent part is "...by their actions they deny him...." Thus, verse 15 does not give a Christian a license to participate in the things she says she participated in. Her actions deny him.

[Antlerman]

I remember my mom telling me not to hang around bad influences, and I'm pretty sure the bible says that too, although I don't know where so I can't be sure. But was this girl wrong to quote it this way? If so, then that infuriates me cause she would criticize me and tell me what to do while she could do whatever she wanted.

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: 'I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people. Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing,and I will receive you. I will be a Father to you,and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.'"

 

2 Cor. 6:14-18

 

 

"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."

 

Phil 4:8

 

And so on and so forth.

 

 

If she was wrong, then it's another reason the bible is morally STUPID!

I would say if she was right, it would make it stupid. It would be make it another contradiction.

 

The verse she is quoting contextually is referring to ceremonial purification in regard to the touching the 'unclean' under the law. This verse is using the metaphor to talk to the Gentile Christians who were being criticized by those Jews who saw them eating unclean meats and other dietary practices. So Paul is saying that since they have undergone purification through redemption in Christ, these are no longer 'unclean' to them.

 

It has nothing to do with moral practices.

[sangheili_asylum]

 

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: 'I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people. Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing,and I will receive you. I will be a Father to you,and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.'"

 

2 Cor. 6:14-18

 

 

"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."

 

Phil 4:8

 

 

And so on and so forth.

 

 

If she was wrong, then it's another reason the bible is morally STUPID!

I would say if she was right, it would make it stupid. It would be make it another contradiction.

 

The verse she is quoting contextually is referring to ceremonial purification in regard to the touching the 'unclean' under the law. This verse is using the metaphor to talk to the Gentile Christians who were being criticized by those Jews who saw them eating unclean meats and other dietary practices. So Paul is saying that since they have undergone purification through redemption in Christ, these are no longer 'unclean' to them.

 

It has nothing to do with moral practices.

 

Wow. How she could think that going to a beer drinking, sex having party is beyond me after reading those verses. Now that you posted them, I remember them (it's been a long time). Oh and by the way I think I need to edit my OP, I think I meant to say "if she was right" but it was early in the morning lol. My bad.

 

But ANYWAY...you make a good point. I agree with you now that they were talking about food and not moral practices. I'm wondering if she meant to misquote to manipulate me or if she really believes she analyzed it correctly...wow, just wow. Thank you guys for the good insight!

[Antlerman]

I'm wondering if she meant to misquote to manipulate me or if she really believes she analyzed it correctly...wow, just wow. Thank you guys for the good insight!

I wouldn't be surprised if she read it that way because it suited her wanting to play around the edges of something she wanted, but was too afraid to just jump in and do it, so to speak. The normal behavior is to use the Bible to justify how you want to see things, whether its for the social conservative Christian, or for the hormone-driven teenager. The incredible, flexible, Bible. "Just Do It... in God's Name". Stamped and approved, by scripture!

[mwc]

If you just want the literal context then you take:

1:15 To the clean in heart all things are clean: but to those who are unclean and without faith nothing is clean; they become unclean in mind and in thought. 16 They say that they have knowledge of God, while by their acts they are turning their backs on him; they are hated by all, hard-hearted, and judged to be without value for any good work.

and then for a girl add

2:4 Training the younger women to have love for their husbands and children, 5 To be wise in mind, clean in heart, kind; working in their houses, living under the authority of their husbands; so that no evil may be said of the word of God.

then tack on

2:11 For the grace of God has come, giving salvation to all men, 12 Training us so that, turning away from evil and the desires of this world, we may be living wisely and uprightly in the knowledge of God in this present life;

and maybe

3:10 A man whose opinions are not those of the church, after a first and second protest, is to be kept out of your society; 11 Clearly he is in error and a sinner, being self-judged.

From what I can see she shouldn't be out and about "observing" things, even if she has judged herself "pure" but instead she should be at home, working in her house, preferably doing what her husband wants of her. Turning away from the "evils" of the world so that this reflects well on her and her religion. If she doubts this she should surely check with her church and, after a couple of disagreements, they should cast her out since she's a sinner and not as "pure" as she thought. Her actions speaking louder than her words.

 

mwc

[hereticzero]

The next verse explains Titus 1:15:

 

(Tit 1:16) They professe that they know God; but in workes they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and vnto euery good worke reprobate.

 

Titus has to do with good works and righteousness for believers. If your friend thinks it means about who are pure in heart, that is an error in doctrine. It is about those who see a good work as evil, not that those who are pure are pure of heart but those who do works of righteousness will see evil for evil and righteousness for righteousness and not believe that good works are works of evil. It is about hypocrites.

[sangheili_asylum]

If you just want the literal context then you take:

1:15 To the clean in heart all things are clean: but to those who are unclean and without faith nothing is clean; they become unclean in mind and in thought. 16 They say that they have knowledge of God, while by their acts they are turning their backs on him; they are hated by all, hard-hearted, and judged to be without value for any good work.

and then for a girl add

2:4 Training the younger women to have love for their husbands and children, 5 To be wise in mind, clean in heart, kind; working in their houses, living under the authority of their husbands; so that no evil may be said of the word of God.

then tack on

2:11 For the grace of God has come, giving salvation to all men, 12 Training us so that, turning away from evil and the desires of this world, we may be living wisely and uprightly in the knowledge of God in this present life;

and maybe

3:10 A man whose opinions are not those of the church, after a first and second protest, is to be kept out of your society; 11 Clearly he is in error and a sinner, being self-judged.

From what I can see she shouldn't be out and about "observing" things, even if she has judged herself "pure" but instead she should be at home, working in her house, preferably doing what her husband wants of her. Turning away from the "evils" of the world so that this reflects well on her and her religion. If she doubts this she should surely check with her church and, after a couple of disagreements, they should cast her out since she's a sinner and not as "pure" as she thought. Her actions speaking louder than her words.

 

mwc

 

This reply made me smile. Especially since she REFUSES to be a housewife.