What is God?

[pandora]

I have been doing a lot of thinking lately about spirituality, for lack of a better word. I have been discouraged and saddened to see all the negative attitudes towards god. I am not surprised, for I have been there too.

 

But isn't time we move on? We all come from an ex-christian perspective, I understand that. Why does God have to be omnipresent, benevolent, omniscient, all powerful, etc...???

 

Many on here seem to be stuck in this line of thought, beating a dead horse by bringing up topics over and over again to ridicule this view of god. Indeed, it is laughable and obviously false.

 

How many of us have tried to move on and create a new way of thinking about god? I see several pseudo-buddhists. A completely natural view of the world is completely compatible with Buddhism (at least the kind that believes in some sort of Supreme Being, although this being does not fit the Christian definition- it is more like a Hindu interpretation).

 

We were all committed Christians not only because we were duped and manipulated. We were devout because we truly felt that Something was out there. We couldn't have been the kind of Christians we were without some streak of innate spirituality. I suspect this nagging feeling still haunts us all, at least it does me.

 

So, after all this noncoherent rambling, I am just wondering... what's next? Now, how can we define God and pursue It?

 

Anyone else feel this way?

[Kuroikaze]

I agree with you 100%, there are many other views of our spirituality, as well as the nature of God, that are totally different than the Judeo-Christian God. Many forms of Buddhism are totally agnostic for instance.

 

If you are looking for a different take on god's nature, have you ever read the Tao Te Ching (pronounced Dao) or the I Ching, the chinese had some very interisting things to say on the subject.

 

The Tao is a much more simplistic force than the God of Christianity, the best way to discribe it is sort of like the divine will of nature, since nature is niether good nor evil the Tao is like wise niether.

 

anyway, the Tao, along with Confucianism and Zen Buddhism are the three religions I have been most interisted in. Not supprising I guess considering that those 3 religions are probably the most distant from the personal god of Christianity, and at least 2 of the 3 have no organization or structure, so one is free to take what understanding they find there without someone trying to hammer some set of docterines into thier head.

 

 

Also I am a hugh Otaku, so I tend to be intrigued by almost anything asian

 

 

P.S. for those of you not anime literate, Otaku means nerd in Japanese, and yes I wear that name with pride.

[Guest Dragonblade]

I'm inclined to agree with you, Pandora. Seems no matter how often I come back here it's the same tired, worn out discussions. Same performers doing the same stichk. Same banter back and forth. Only excitment is when a drive by Christian comes along....but then it's the same shit anyways, all over again.

 

For this reason I think I'm going to take Zoe Grace's approach and just bow out. So this will be my last visit.....not that anyone would even notice anyway.....

 

Thank you Pandora for giving me the nudge I needed to leave here; it's been a while in coming. I wish you the best in what you're looking for.

 

DRAGONBLADE

[Amethyst]

But isn't time we move on? We all come from an ex-christian perspective, I understand that. Why does God have to be omnipresent, benevolent, omniscient, all powerful, etc...???

 

I personally don't know if there is a god. However, this is a site for people who are recovering from Christianity. I'm perfectly fine with the Taoist concept of god (a jedi-like energy force, which is probably where Lucas got the concept), but there is still no evidence to show that it exists. Feel free to be deist if you want to, but I'm not going to say that there is something out there when the evidence hasn't shown itself. It's like trying to believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn.

[Lizard]

Yes, we do go over the same things. But, that's how we work it out.

 

For some, it takes longer to move on. Even at this point, some two years later, I find myself wanting "something". Not sure what it is, over those two years I've taken a look again, but as I said elsewhere, its not recoverable.

 

It does help those who are considering "going back", to see it again and again. Like an alcoholic looking at a drunk, sort of. Until you get so sick of seeing it that you are truly free.

[Panther]

Sure, some here bitch about the same things, BUT....this board is for healing. This is an important process for some.

 

We are so damn lucky to have our board. I know so many who "go it alone" when they get "thrown out of the church" and they wish they knew about us when they left.

 

There is a boatload of education here too. For the doubting thomas, he/she can find whatever they need to disprove xtianity.

 

Hey dragonblade, if you are back to read this, hope you stay buddy. This board can be about whatever you want it to be....but I have been finding friendships here, valuable stuff.

[pandora]

I understand the need to vent. I needed that too. It just seems it isn't the newbies who are doing it, it is some of the posters who have been here a while. I don't know, it doesn't necessarily bother me that people continue to do that, it just seems that there isn't a good balance of positive speculation.

 

I have looked into Taoism, and I like the philosophy actually. I might have to review it since I haven't really read a lot about it lately. I remember reading about it during my deconversion, after my deconversion I focused on Buddhism and Hinduism.

 

In the end, though, it does seem fruitless to speculate. It is fun, but what does it accomplish? If our life essence is recycled somehow (like in reincanation), if we have no memories of it, what purpose does it serve? Does our "soul" only remember past lives in the time after we die and are reborn? Who knows, seems futile. I don't mean this in a pessimistic "life is meaningless" way. I Just wonder if it is worth all the speculation after all. I guess to each his own. The hardest part is figuring out if it is worth it.

[RedPillAddict]

Life is just the same shit over and over.

 

While you may have come to a conclusion with your views on God there are many others coming to this site everyday with doubts. Thats why its here.

[Ouroboros]

In essence, we are so completely different, all of us. And some need to work on issues over and over again from different angles, while others might be able to let go of certain things. The same difference that some become deists while others become atheists and so on.

 

If you feel that we should move on Pandora, then don't get involved in the discussions that you feel you've left behind. I actually skip posts and discussions sometimes out of this reason, that I feel that my own opinion doesn't need to dwell on those issues anymore.

 

Another side to it all, is that there's a lot of people that only browse and read the threads without contributing themselves. Some discussions can be useful to explain concepts to these people, and we don't know which level of understanding they're on yet. They might need to read the exchange of ideas that floats around.

 

This site has so many functions:

1. Help the newly deconverted to find himself again

2. Discuss topics and ideas that relate to religion, concepts we need to look at from a new angle

3. Discuss with Christians to get skilled in arguing for or against what we believe or not believe

4. Help people that are not so out-going to find explanations to concepts they wonder about

and much more...

 

This places is like a garden with different plants all over.

We're not all the same, and can not be planted in the same pot.

And we grow at different rates too.

 

FWIW.

[I Broke Free]

If our life essence is recycled somehow (like in reincanation), if we have no memories of it, what purpose does it serve?  Does our "soul" only remember past lives in the time after we die and are reborn?  Who knows, seems futile. 

 

Am glad I am not the only one who has had this thought. What possible good does reincarnation provide if you have no memory of your past lives, or your period between lives; without a frame of reference, it’s useless!

[Cerise]

If it isn't the Forgiveness Police it's the Can't-We-All-Move-On Police.

 

No. Thank you.

 

[a midnight star]

What is God?

 

Ok my thoughts.

 

God is the energy force that helps and causes growth on and in the earth.

 

 

Why am I here.

 

There are many reasons. One was that I needed an outlet to finally voice my thoughts as they really are as opposed to filtering because everybody is trying to be nice to the christians and not offend to much. Well, at least that was my first intention. Now it is more of a social outlet because I am not a social person and I have panic attacks when around new people. I get to the point where I just am not capable of coming up with a single thought. (weird coming from me I know). Then I am thought of as if I am stupid or dense because I am so quite around people. On-line, it is different. I am still the same person those who know me well, without the added pressure of talking face to face.

[Amethyst]

I actually skip posts and discussions sometimes out of this reason, that I feel that my own opinion doesn't need to dwell on those issues anymore.

 

Ditto. This is why I don't debate as much because I have already hashed out the same debates with my stupid cube mate, and it's the same crap all over again. Nothing new.

 

Now it is more of a social outlet because I am not a social person and I have panic attacks when around new people.

 

I come here because I am not very social either. I am a major introvert. Take today...I went to the local Renaissance Festival because I had a couple of free tickets my stepmom had gotten from work. I met a friend there who had another friend along who I didn't know. I gave my friend the extra ticket but didn't go walking around with them because I felt like an intruder. It was also extremely muddy and cold because it had been raining earlier in the morning & looked like it might rain later (in fact, it did sprinkle a bit). But it was worth putting up with the mud to see the Puke & Snot comedy show, even if they do they same routine every year.

 

Still, my stepmom called and left a message. When I called back, she kept telling me that I should "have more people in my life." She thinks everyone should be an extrovert like her, and just doesn't understand that whatever genetic code makes people extroverts, some people just don't have it.

[pandora]

If it isn't the Forgiveness Police it's the Can't-We-All-Move-On Police.

 

No.  Thank you.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I'm fine with the "not moving on" it is just that there is any exploration going on here. I know some members do explore, and I just wish they'd post about it more often then they do.

 

I just have questions, but I guess this isn't the forum to explore them. People aren't very supportive of spiritual enquiry here.

[Cerise]

I'm fine with the "not moving on" it is just that there is any exploration going on here.  I know some members do explore, and I just wish they'd post about it more often then they do.

 

I just have questions, but I guess this isn't the forum to explore them.  People aren't very supportive of spiritual enquiry here.

 

I don't mind if people want to explore spirituality. I do, however, mind if people want to explore spirituality whilst ever so subtly (or not) implying that it's the pinnacle stage in "letting go" and under the assumption that everyone should strive to do the same.

 

It's the same heirarchy the Forgiveness Police assume. I don't do the whole why-haven't-you-reached-this-enlightened-stage-yet-you-shall-only-be-bitter thing very well.

[pandora]

LOL well, I don't do this whole spirituality thing very well at all either. It seems you have gotten beyond the place I am at by being sure there is no such thing. I am just now able to prevent my experiences with the Christian God cloud my vision of what this God may actually be. Honestly, I have been coming to the conclusion for a long time now that all spirituality is just a mind game played by those who need it psychologically to cope, but since some of my bitterness has been relieved, I feel I should revisit that place and reevaluate. Does that make sense?

 

I respect and admire anyone who seems sure about the whole thing, even they fall on the side of pure and hard athiesm.

 

But I still get a sneaking suspicion that SOME people haven't really explored any other notions of god. Otherwise, they would be ridiculing these other notions as often as the Christian one. If they don't, there is obviously emotional baggaage there. And rightfully so.. don't get me wrong, I just think we need to be able to look at ourselves objectively.

[All Gods Fail]

But I still get a sneaking suspicion that SOME people haven't really explored any other notions of god.  Otherwise, they would be ridiculing these other notions as often as the Christian one.  If they don't, there is obviously emotional baggaage there.  And rightfully so.. don't get me wrong, I just think we need to be able to look at ourselves objectively.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I just got here myself. I've been a godless heretic for many years after being drummed out of a fundie sect, and I finally feel like I belong somewhere!

 

But I have little desire to explore other religions/gods/spirituality. I personally disbelieve in Allah, Shiva, Wicca, etc. as much as xtianity. I think humans are the masters of their own destiny, and we are the creatures who show amazing compassion, love and wisdom, instead of the gods or spirits doing it through us. We also exhibit fiendish cruelty, greed and hatred without need of demons manipulating us.

 

I think there's a lot of 'spiritual' growth possible merely by listening to or studying people we admire. Some of my most valuable lessons in compassion and tolerance came from my mom!

 

Not everybody needs or wants another god.

[pandora]

It isn't that I need another god, it is that I feel like I must explore it because reason is telling me to do so. If I end up a deist or with some even more vague "god" then I am ok with that. I am also ok if I find that I am still drawn to athiesm (which has been my position for a while). I am damn sure that none of the established religions have it all right, but I am not ready to discard all the wonderful ideas that other religions give us. I just don't know where to begin this kind of search and I was hoping that others on here might feel that same way and would be able to give me a starting point.

 

Ok, yes, it still bothers me that people seem to think god HAS to be the "omnis." But I am willing to hear them out if I hear some sort of reason behind their choice, and for now a lot of it seems to be emotional reaction (completely valid for the main purpose of this site, but not applicable to my question).

[godlessgrrl]

Spirituality is what you make it. Having given up Xianity, you are free to go wherever your spirit leads you.

 

For some, that's another religion that's more honest. Or it's a philosophical path. Or it's disbelief in any deity. Your mileage may vary depending on who you are and what you feel your relationship with the universe is. I picked paganism over a foundation of agnosticism, but that's just me. I can justify it, but only on very subjective terms. Fwiw.

 

If your reasoning tells you to explore, then explore away. Reading is what I did. Reading every damn thing about religions and spirituality that I could get my hands on. I still read like nobody's business. <g>

 

I can certainly see why this might not be the place to explore. This is really more a site for people to recover from Christianity, so to speak. It's not so much a place to discover some other path. But then, there isn't any reason why an exploratory type thread or topic might not be started - as this one was.

 

Just some thoughts. Thanks for reading.

[Ouroboros]

I can certainly see why this might not be the place to explore. This is really more a site for people to recover from Christianity, so to speak. It's not so much a place to discover some other path. But then, there isn't any reason why an exploratory type thread or topic might not be started - as this one was.

Yup. You're right. This site is the ICU section of the Hospital, you go in for intensive care, but when you're better you're placed in a different department. This site attracts the newly un-born-agains that need to Rant, Rage and Recover (the three R-s) from the abuse.

[a midnight star]

Ditto. 

I come here because I am not very social either.  I am a major introvert. Take today...I went to the local Renaissance Festival because I had a couple of free tickets my stepmom had gotten from work.  I met a friend there who had another friend along who I didn't know.  I gave my friend the extra ticket but didn't go walking around with them because I felt like an intruder.  It was also extremely muddy and cold because it had been raining earlier in the morning & looked like it might rain later (in fact, it did sprinkle a bit).  But it was worth putting up with the mud to see the Puke & Snot comedy show, even if they do they same routine every year.

 

Still, my stepmom called and left a message.  When I called back, she kept telling me that I should "have more people in my life."  She thinks everyone should be an extrovert like her, and just doesn't understand that whatever genetic code makes people extroverts, some people just don't have it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly!! I feel the same way. I just feel stupid when I can't come up with an intellgent word. I know that I am smart with IQ tests to prove it, but around new people I just turn into mrs. dumbass. Go figure!!

 

 

LOL well, I don't do this whole spirituality thing very well at all either.  It seems you have gotten beyond the place I am at by being sure there is no such thing.  I am just now able to prevent my experiences with the Christian God cloud my vision of what this God may actually be.  Honestly, I have been coming to the conclusion for a long time now that all spirituality is just a mind game played by those who need it psychologically to cope, but since some of my bitterness has been relieved, I feel I should revisit that place and reevaluate.   Does that make sense?

 

I respect and admire anyone who seems sure about the whole thing, even they fall on the side of pure and hard athiesm.

 

But I still get a sneaking suspicion that SOME people haven't really explored any other notions of god.  Otherwise, they would be ridiculing these other notions as often as the Christian one.  If they don't, there is obviously emotional baggaage there.  And rightfully so.. don't get me wrong, I just think we need to be able to look at ourselves objectively.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Everybody's path is different. You may explore other paths and find that no path is the right path. It is the journey that makes it worthwhile, not the ending. It may never end. There are those who spend their whole lives trying different paths but never finding the one that fits. BUt think of all the experiences and people they have met on the way. You just do what is right for you, if people really care they will repect your right to do so. And if they don't? well..... they can just stick it.

[a midnight star]

I don't need to make you wrong,

To embrace my own truth.

I don't have to slash you down,

To realize we bleed in color,

Instead of Dark and Light.

You can kneel in relation

To your God, Gods, or Goddess,

Sketch whatever symbols,

Sing whatever songs,

Pour your energy into whatever path

Gleams shiny, golden, beautiful

To you.

 

But sketch with deep groves,

And dance to the music of your choice.

Walk your path wide enough

For the rest of the world's travelers

To walk unencumbered of your fears.

Hold your Peace of the shredded

Whole picture.

Throw your arms around your neighbors,

Then hug their trees.

Offer up your perfect perspective

When others are curious,

And see how well

They fit.

[Dhampir]

when I first came here I was all over christians, debating them left and right with all the vociferousness of my new-found education. now, I hardly even go into that section, and I rarely participate in religious discussions anymore.

[pandora]

I don't need to make you wrong,

To embrace my own truth.

I don't have to slash you down,

To realize we bleed in color,

Instead of Dark and Light.

You can kneel in relation

To your God, Gods, or Goddess,

Sketch whatever symbols,

Sing whatever songs,

Pour your energy into whatever path

Gleams shiny, golden, beautiful

To you.

 

But sketch with deep groves,

And dance to the music of your choice.

Walk your path wide enough

For the rest of the world's travelers

To walk unencumbered of your fears.

Hold your Peace of the shredded

Whole picture.

Throw your arms around your neighbors,

Then hug their trees.

Offer up your perfect perspective

When others are curious,

And see how well

They fit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Awl, that was sweet. And convicting too.