The Mayan Calendar

[Voice]

Per request by some prominent members of this community, I'm raising discussion on the Mayan calendar, but not in the Lion's Den. You may argue intelligently here. You thought I was evangelizing? If we're to minimize unintelligible blathering and end time scenario nonsense, the Lion's Den is the worst place to post.

 

Estimating a (revised) probably that only 5 percent or fewer members here even consider the Mayan calendar to be relevant to society or individuals in modern times, I'm not posting suppositions. Some of you retain huge amounts of historical information. What do you know about a start date? Any insight you have would be great.

 

Some people here have compared the calendar to astrology. I'm curious to hear more about that, since astrology, to my knowledge, seems to be intended for individuals only, and is based on planetary/cosmological alignments, and the natures of some mythical characters assigned eons ago to planets and stars of the ecliptic. The Mayan calendar only uses day/night cycles and moon cycles for counts, setting up layers of counts that create "waves" over periods of time. I understand that the entities depicted on the calendar are assigned energies, and that similarly, persona/energies are assigned to signs of the zodiac. This is the only similarity I observe between astrology and the Mayan calendar.

 

Let me be clear on one point, the calendar does not predict the end of the world.

My intent today is not to encourage uninformed rants, but I understand that this subject is prime fuel for those. My motive is to find out if anyone here knows of more authoritative sources than I have now, which might provide accurate information by credible historians, or possibly insight into some of the more complex workings of the calendar in ways that are clear. Wikipedia, for the sake of this post, should serve as a general, non-authoritative introduction.

[Vixentrox]

I'm sure you can go to a library to get some authoritve works on the Mayans. There are reputable archeology sites you could explore for more information. You don't mention which source you already have.

[Shyone]

I have an interest in the Mayans. I have visited Mayan and Aztec archeological sites, read some books on their culture, language and history, and I have spoken with archeologists about them. I was raised on the border with Mexico and many of my friends are descendents of the ancient Indian races.

 

I am even now wearing a medallion with the Mayan calendar on one side and the Aztec calendar on the other side.

 

Unfortunately, I don't have my library with me, so I can't say if the books I have are authoritative. If the focus of the work is the language, religion and culture, then I would say to use your own judgement.

 

My interest in them is partly cultural, but the idea of a culture developing relatively independently of western culture fascinated me. Why did they believe in gods? Why did they feel sacrifice was important? It's like finding a parallel culture on another planet with religion. It raises questions and even suggests some answers regarding how intelligent beings perceive nature and attempt to control it or appease it.

[Voice]

My step dad got a degree in anthropology, and has a bunch of books in storage that I can't get to yet. Looking forward to it.

I've been reading Carl Calleman's articles lately, he's a calendar specialist who seems to have his head on straight. Other than that, I've used anthropology text books and text book supplementals, university sites, etc. to get information. I have more math books than history books. History isn't really my area.

[Vixentrox]

http://www.skepdic.com/maya.html

 

The article mentions a John Calleman as a doomsayer/New Age astrologer. A relation to your Carl?

[florduh]

The "sacred" calendar debate is a hoot, if you're inclined to follow such things. I guess their bloodthirsty gods make it "sacred."

 

Calleman is at odds with the first New Agers to latch onto the old calendar as a marketing tool for their books and lectures. He's leading a Protestant Reformation in a way. Like the Bible, everybody has an angle and a book to sell, everybody has the True Meaning of the thing, and nobody has a clue what it really means, if anything.

 

The end of the calendar might be 2012 (mainstream dogma) but it might also be October 2011 (heretical position). The end of the "cycle" could be a planetary convergence, energy "shift", cosmic awakening and "Oneness" or perhaps it signals the destruction of the planet according to some. Take your pick. Even the real, surviving Mayan people themselves don't know what it's about, though they mostly agree it isn't about the end of life on the planet.

 

Personally, as far as early innovation I think their calendars (there are more than the one we're discussing) pale in comparison to their introduction of "0" in mathematics. Pretty clever stuff for a people that were primitive enough to engage in human sacrifice.

[Voice]

Carl Calleman is not this John Calleman. Carl Calleman is the opposite of a doomsayer. His outlook is one of the most positive and optimistic I've seen in this age of peak oil and plastic. His approach is scientific, but his optimism reflects spiritual awareness and is encouraging. His articles are not a good source for learning basic mechanics of the calendar, or related calendars, since he doesn't include complete technical descriptions of how everything works together in any one article. Each time I read one of his articles, I get an average of 1 piece to a larger puzzle, and a suggestion of how the whole will look when it's done. It's good reading though. He's been pointing people to a forum for an upcoming global event (2 days from now), which, compared to other forums on the web, is tragically, horribly insufficient for the cause, having limited functionality, no restriction of spam bots, very few human members, and with a learning curve you have to climb just to format a paragraph.

 

I have found ties to New Age philosophy in some of the leads from Carl's work, but again, I have not investigated New Age ideas enough to recognize where to draw lines between philosophies.

Shakras and the study of them are Asian in origin, from what I understand. Energy flow.

The Tree of Life: have any of you found historical information on this model? When/where it originated?

 

 

shyone, how much do you know about the Aztec calendar? Is it built on the same principals as the Mayan calendar?

 

Thanks for the civil replies, everyone. Much appreciated.

[Shyone]

 

shyone, how much do you know about the Aztec calendar? Is it built on the same principals as the Mayan calendar?

 

Thanks for the civil replies, everyone. Much appreciated.

The calendars are so similar that I think the Aztecs copied the Mayans.

 

The 365 day calendar is arranged in about 18 months (with less than 30 days) with days left over to make up the difference up to 365.

 

They also have a 260 day calendar for ceremonial purposes, and the conjunction of the 365 and 260 day calendars means that every 52 years they have a day in common (called a calendar round).

 

The Aztec calendar has the sun god (Tonatiuh) in the middle whereas the Mayan calendar has the "Bearer of Time" in the middle. The mathematics however are almost identical.

 

As of post time, It is 889 days, 19 hours, 47 minutes and 21 seconds until Friday, December 21, 2012 at 11:11:11 AM (UTC time)

 

But it depends on your time zone...