Astral Projection?

[Dibllsmek]

I've been researching astral projection for the past few weeks, I've been up all night reading, and have come to what I think is a conclusion.

 

It's all in the mind.

 

For those that don't know, google it.

 

It seems that its like lucid dreamin, which I have before and concluded its my minds perception of knowing I'm dreaming and remembering whats going on.

 

Some of the points I think its myth is that;

 

1. All the websites I have seen have said you can control it with your thought (making something scary to more appealing) i.e. some people saw "Jesus" and some saw Bhudda.

 

2. That you have to be asleep for it to happen, which we dream when we sleep.

 

3. That its rather easy to "project" from a lucid dream (just by thinking about it.)

 

5. That when you talk to people, they won't remember it.

 

6. You can transcend time. You can go in the past to see who you were, go to the future (but the future changes so its not always right)

 

7. And one sight talked about how they saw gnomes and faeries...

 

8. And that they experience a feeling of "being all". I have had this feeling in a dream, and it feels strange, like you're every part of your body at the same time.

 

9. People have more ability when they're sick.

 

10. Most people base their experience on what they find out about it, I.e. its exactly what they think it is, but isn't. Most dreams stem from memory.

 

11. You feel like your floating. Ever have a dream when you fall of a cliff, I have, the experience can feel terrifying.

 

12. That you have some difficulty remembering your "projections" and can remember through practice. Again dreaming is the same way.

 

13. Some feel vibrations like tingles, electrocuting, but "its different from each person" but most or all of these people thought that the vibrations would come, because thats what they thought from learning.

 

 

Also, I believe that our brain puts out thought waves, and that they can also be receivers and senders. i.e. think about someone right before they call you. I've had this happen a lot. May just be a coincidence.

 

Just some stuff, please don't take it offensively, I'm only 14, if you have a counter argument please tell me, I'm eager to learn more. <- Not Sarcasm

 

 

Also, for those not paying attention, I didn't list a number 4.

[florduh]

Hi Dib!

 

Most paranormal stuff is predicated on the assumption that consciousness exists independently of the chemical and electrical activity of the brain. Though it's been studied for decades, there is no evidence to support this theory. Still, for various reasons we perceive strange things at times. Neuroscience has found reasons for our aberrations in perception, but true believers insist there is more to it.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

As a person who has tried it, I can tell you that you don't leave your body. It's fun to do, but it can be scary the first time.

[Dibllsmek]

As a person who has tried it, I can tell you that you don't leave your body. It's fun to do, but it can be scary the first time.

Has anything been revealed to you? All these sights I've visited say things about chakras, akashic record (can't remember right word), being oneness of god, seeing the future, etc.

 

It just seems that the biggest evidence (for me) that its just lucid dreaming is that you need to be asleep, but mind awake, same with lucid dreaming.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

Has anything been revealed to you? All these sights I've visited say things about chakras, akashic record (can't remember right word), being oneness of god, seeing the future, etc.

 

It just seems that the biggest evidence (for me) that its just lucid dreaming is that you need to be asleep, but mind awake, same with lucid dreaming.

Only one thing, a woman in a niqab talking to me in some foreign language. I felt a jolt of energy when I talked to her. Weird it was, but it was just lucid dreaming.

 

Other than that, I had a few where I just couldnt get up, and when I did, I was jus pulled back down. It was weird. Though clearly a product of my brain.

[Dibllsmek]

So your saying that you know its not real?

 

Dreams can seem so real sometime. Hell, when I was five I had the most vivid dream ever, I remember it like it was a movie. I was walking in a cornfield when I saw my mom, naturally I went to hug her. She then grabbed me, stabbed me, and gave my heart to freddy kreuger. I even ran away for a couple days. I still have flashbacks whenever I see my mom holding a butchers knife. The moral of the story is: Never let your five year old child watch nightmare on elf street before they go to bed.

 

I've also had some great lucid dreams that were of... um... teenage things

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

They seemed real, though that usually happens when I realize I'm dreaming as well. My rational mind starts making me play by reality's rules.

[orlando]

Hi Dib!

 

Most paranormal stuff is predicated on the assumption that consciousness exists independently of the chemical and electrical activity of the brain. Though it's been studied for decades, there is no evidence to support this theory.

 

I wouldn't say "no" evidence, just not very conclusive evidence. For example it appears though that there is quite strong evidence that some NDEs have occurred at times when there the heart has stopped pumping blood and there is no registerable brain activity. Some people also give accurate reports of procedures they "saw" being done to their bodies etc.

 

I agree that "astral projection" sounds a bit dubious though. From what I understand it rarely involves supposedly going out of your body into the usual physical world, but into one that is like the physical one, but that can be influenced by your thoughts, and then others that are strange and dream-like. It does sound as if it is just a kind of lucid dream. Also I have heard that sometimes pairs of experimenters try to do this and meet up in a given place in the astral planes and then report back etc, as proof of these astral planes objective existence and evidence of having left the body, but I did not read any convincingly impressive accounts of this succeeding.

[orlando]

So your saying that you know its not real?

 

Dreams can seem so real sometime. Hell, when I was five I had the most vivid dream ever, I remember it like it was a movie. I was walking in a cornfield when I saw my mom, naturally I went to hug her. She then grabbed me, stabbed me, and gave my heart to freddy kreuger. I even ran away for a couple days. I still have flashbacks whenever I see my mom holding a butchers knife. The moral of the story is: Never let your five year old child watch nightmare on elf street before they go to bed.

 

I've also had some great lucid dreams that were of... um... teenage things

 

Nightmare on elf street - I'm intrigued about what that's about.. that dream doesn't sound too much fun though!

[orlando]

As a person who has tried it, I can tell you that you don't leave your body. It's fun to do, but it can be scary the first time.

 

So what do you think it is then? It's the mind creating an illusion of going out of your body on a journey? Why was it scary? What did your experience consist of?

[Poketto Kunoichi]

That seems like a reasonable conclusion, but I haven't read enough on it to be definite. I can't lucid dream, however I do get sleep paralysis (I think that's the term, I'm awake while having a dream, and I try to wake up and move, but can't).

 

Dibllsmek, I envy you. I had one "teenage" thing that literally lasted for .5 seconds.

 

...I'll shut up now. But astral projection sounds like something fun to try either way.

[Dibllsmek]

Nightmare on elf street - I'm intrigued about what that's about.. that dream doesn't sound too much fun though!

Made me think of this.

 

Dibllsmek, I envy you. I had one "teenage" thing that literally lasted for .5 seconds.

Well, when you live in a five bedroom house with 11 people, its hard to find time to um... relieve yourself. And it can make lucid dreaming really fun, yet hard to explain to your foster mom why you had to wash your sheets by yourself.

 

I'm glad after 2 years I got out of that house and back with my mom and sister. 3 is way more tolerable than 11.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

So what do you think it is then? It's the mind creating an illusion of going out of your body on a journey? Why was it scary? What did your experience consist of?

At the time I was trying to be a believer, and I still believed in gods and the supernatural. I thought I was going to leave my body, I felt myself starting to fall, I thought I was falling out of my body. That was scary.

 

Also, there was really loud noises, still don't know what they were, but they were like things pulsing past me.

 

After that, I don't really remember all my "astral travels" but one was just around my house. Everything seemed to be normal, give or take a few changes. I never could leave my house. Though one time, sitting near my bed was some arab lady in a niqab. Really weirded out dreams they were. It was just sleep, though a very light sleep. That's how I'll describe it. Where you can wake up any time you please sometimes, but you'll have to wait a bit till you can move.

 

It's a mix between you and your mind creating an illusion. By that I mean, one being voluntary and the other involuntary, as I am my mind.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

I wouldn't say "no" evidence, just not very conclusive evidence. For example it appears though that there is quite strong evidence that some NDEs have occurred at times when there the heart has stopped pumping blood and there is no registerable brain activity. Some people also give accurate reports of procedures they "saw" being done to their bodies etc.

The people who described some of the habits a doctor does that isn't to do with their professions do intrigue me with NDE, but the other stuff not at all. Most NDE's sound like a mix of effects of their state of physical health and their dreams, that leads me to conclude that at the very least, the vast majority are just that. If not all.

 

I agree that "astral projection" sounds a bit dubious though. From what I understand it rarely involves supposedly going out of your body into the usual physical world, but into one that is like the physical one, but that can be influenced by your thoughts, and then others that are strange and dream-like. It does sound as if it is just a kind of lucid dream. Also I have heard that sometimes pairs of experimenters try to do this and meet up in a given place in the astral planes and then report back etc, as proof of these astral planes objective existence and evidence of having left the body, but I did not read any convincingly impressive accounts of this succeeding.

As a former astral projector, I concur. It's dreams. Astral planes and all that are just dreams. I've been there, believed it, unbelieved it, then came here.

[neo]

I can't lucid dream, however I do get sleep paralysis (I think that's the term, I'm awake while having a dream, and I try to wake up and move, but can't).

 

I thought lucid dreaming is when you know you're dreaming and may or may not(???) be able to alter the dream. And that sleep paralysis is when you wake up and it's like your mind wakes up and thus you're awake but can't move a muscle. And some people see or sense a person in the room in sleep paralysis as well. (I'm def not claiming it's a real being, just noting what ppl have reported)

 

Or is it lucid dreaming only when you CAN change what's happening... Because then there's 'false awakening' where you also know you're dreaming and try (or not) to wake up but keep waking up into another dream... Now there's a way to torture someone.

 

 

BTW Freddy Krueger(sp) flick for a FIVE-year-old is SO NOT RIGHT. I feel for you Dib. I started watching movies of same caliber at about 11 and even then it was behind my parents' back . I promised myself at 11 I'd never watch another horror movie after I had a horrible nightmare about Hannibal Lecter ripping someone open and removing their kidneys with his bare hands. There's a promise I didn't keep tho. (yes I know now SOTL is not necessarily considered to be horror, yeah yeah )

 

 

 

I'm more interested in NDEs than Astral Projection. It's been a while since I researced AP but NDEs seem pretty real to me and have seemed for a long time. I love a good NDE story!!! WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

 

 

 

neo

[par4dcourse]

Lucid dreaming is becoming aware that you are indeed dreaming. One may then do things impossible in the "real" world and alter the course of the dream. There are also tips available to become aware one is dreaming, such as clocks showing different times when looked at twice and print being hard to interpret (although I've learned to "read" in my dreams).

 

I'm a fan and practioner of lucid dreaming, and do it twice a week on average. It's fun and free.

 

Asstral projection: not so much.

[Dibllsmek]

Sorry to necro this thread, but I've been have in argument with one of my Mom's friends who is a "spiritual theist".

 

She thinks astral projection is real, having your "soul" leave the body.

 

I say its just a state, like lucid dreaming. Something like inner travel, a state of mediation. Most dreams stem from our memory, this is how you can "see" yourself around your surrounding. Yet things you haven't spent much time looking at, look blurry or not like they would in real life. It'd probably be a great thing to use for meditation, but basing your faith on it (like she does) seems crazy to me. Yet simply having oblivion after death seems stupid to her.

 

She says I don't understand because I haven't REALLY experienced it, but I have. A couple nights ago I was lucid dreaming, then I found myself standing in my room I looked around and saw my body. I started floating around me house. I then went to visit a friends house. Saw him sleeping. I woke up, went to school, and told my friend about it, he stayed the night at his aunt's. I told her this, she just started screaming about how I never did it.

 

Any other things that can help my side of the argument?

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

As someone who thought it was my spirit leaving my body, her arguement doesnt stand up. After scrutiny, I realized I was just dreaming, I wanted it to be more.

[florduh]

We first need to provide some evidence that there is actually something to "project."

[Brother Jeff]

We first need to provide some evidence that there is actually something to "project."

 

Evidence does exist. I'm currently reading a book called The Spiritual Brain, which is written by two non-materialist neuroscientists. I've read about half of it so far, and the authors make a pretty good case, IMHO, that the mind and consciousness are not products of the physical brain. NDE and reincarnation studies also strongly indicate the existence of a non-physical component to our existence which spiritual/religious folks would call a "soul".

 

The evidence, while not 100% conclusive, is there.

 

To the OP, I have never personally experienced astral projection, but I don't doubt that it is a real phenomenon that some people do experience.

[florduh]

The evidence, while not 100% conclusive, is there.

All I can say to that is that a "scientific" case has also been made for racial superiority and a young earth.

 

I have studied the weird phenomena for decades and still have found no reputable scientist who indicates a belief that consciousness is non-local, and not even pseudoscience can offer anything more than anecdotes and supposition.

 

Of course if one listens long enough to George Noory, one's outlook may change!

[Brother Jeff]

The evidence, while not 100% conclusive, is there.

All I can say to that is that a "scientific" case has also been made for racial superiority and a young earth.

 

I have studied the weird phenomena for decades and still have found no reputable scientist who indicates a belief that consciousness is non-local, and not even pseudoscience can offer anything more than anecdotes and supposition.

 

Of course if one listens long enough to George Noory, one's outlook may change!

 

But have you studied "weird phenomena" with an open or a closed mind on the subject?

 

The authors of the book I cited are respected and reputable scientists who believe that consciousness is non-local, and of course they are not alone in that respect in their profession. Your assertion is therefore invalidated. NDE and reincarnation research offers far more than anecdote and supposition as evidence, again invalidating your assertion to the contrary.

 

As for pseudoscience, I wouldn't know. The only pseudoscientific belief system I have ever studied in depth at all is Creationism, and of course it is very easy to debunk.

 

BIAS plays a huge role in what we consider to be credible when we evaluate something. You are clearly strongly biased toward an atheistic, materialistic world view, but that does not make your view correct. By the same token, the scientific community for the most part is currently biased toward a materialistic view of reality. That does not equate to the materialistic view necessarily being the correct one. I don't claim not to be biased. But I try very hard not to let the biases I am subject to get in the way of my objectivity when I evaluate a claim concerning the nature of reality, or anything else for that matter.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this subject.

[florduh]

Guilty. Of course I'm biased. We all are. My bias is toward the scientific method and things like double-blind studies and repeatable experiments.

[Neon Genesis]

Bias = you don't agree with me on something.

[florduh]

Good definition, Neon.

 

Example: Let's say a neighbor you talk to every week or so suddenly is absent. Nobody's seen him, his mail piles up in the box and his grass is three feet high.

 

One person, so biased, might say the most likely explanation for the disappearance is alien abduction. Real scientists are studying the phenomenon and there are books and TV shows about it so it must be a real possibility.

 

My bias leads me to suspect other causes as more likely, such as hiding from creditors, perhaps he came into money and decided to take a six month cruise, he could have died somewhere and the body hasn't been found, or he might even be in the witness protection program. My bias leads me to these possibilities in part because there ain't no fucking aliens!!!

 

But then, I'm biased.