Out Of Touch With Reality?

[EdwardAbbey]

Isn't Christianity a form of psychosis?

''a mental disorder characterized by symptoms, such as delusions or hallucinations, that indicate impaired contact with reality''.

[Thurisaz]

Isn't Christianity a form of psychosis?

 

In its literalist (morontheist) variant, in my opinion, it sure is.

 

To be fair, I think moderate christians are another case. They still believe some things that are *cough* questionable *cough* but it doesn't have much impact on how they deal with reality, most of the time.

[EdwardAbbey]

Isn't Christianity a form of psychosis?

 

In its literalist (morontheist) variant, in my opinion, it sure is.

 

To be fair, I think moderate christians are another case. They still believe some things that are *cough* questionable *cough* but it doesn't have much impact on how they deal with reality, most of the time.

 

Oh yes, those ''moderate'' or philosophical Xtians are a strange breed. I refer to them as the ''wannabe'' atheists because they just don't have the courage to quit Christianity altogether. They just pick and choose the bible verses that sound nice, warm and fuzzy and distance themselves from the absurdities, atrocities and all the blood and gore. They definitely don't like to be identified with their fundamentalist brothers and sisters of their own faith because that would make them appear less intellectual. They just need a little encouragement and a slight push over the edge to reason. During my process of walking away from superstition, I became sort of a moderate too but couldn't honestly cling to Christianity much longer. It was just to dishonest.

 

[DesertBob]

Isn't Christianity a form of psychosis?

''a mental disorder characterized by symptoms, such as delusions or hallucinations, that indicate impaired contact with reality''.

More like a form of mass hysteria expressing the fairly universal hopes, dreams, aspirations and fears of mankind. If it's psychotic it's fairly low-level because most Christians deal in reality well enough to hold down gainful employment, take care of their families, etc. While they are imperfect at these things, we unbelievers are probably flattering ourselves if we think they are substantively worse at it than us. We just screw up in different ways.

 

Dismissing Christians on a blanket basis as mentally ill is taking the easy way out.

 

There's another facet to this that we're often uncomfortable acknowledging: mental illness is relative. From a certain perspective we're all less than mentally healthy, some more than others. All of use have "impaired contact with reality". We'd like to think that mental illness is something that happens entirely to Other People, when in fact it happens in some measure to us all.

 

Life is all about gradually improving our contact with reality. If we acknowledge that then we don't have to snipe at those less further along the way, and we can have some compassion, empathy and understanding for them.

[Vixentrox]

Oh, since when is hearing voices in your head a sign of sanity?

[Ouroboros]

Oh, since when is hearing voices in your head a sign of sanity?

Since society redefined delusion to only include people who hear voices that are not from God. Audible voice from YHWH or Jesus: Okay. Audible voice from Allah: Not okay.

 

Delusion used to mean a person who maintained faith or belief contrary to facts and reality.

 

Now it only means a specific psychological diagnosis that only applies if the person believes he is Napoleon.

 

Personally, I still use it more like how Charles Mackey did in the 19th century. People who fall for a mind-trick, and defend it even after the facts are on the table.

[Vigile]

Personally, I still use it more like how Charles Mackey did in the 19th century. People who fall for a mind-trick, and defend it even after the facts are on the table.

 

That'd be Justyna.

[Ouroboros]

Personally, I still use it more like how Charles Mackey did in the 19th century. People who fall for a mind-trick, and defend it even after the facts are on the table.

 

That'd be Justyna.

In her case I think it's worse. Delusion is something we all can have. It can be a symptom of a mental issue. But hearing voices audible like Justyna, in my opinion, is the next step. That's auditory hallucinations.

 

I remember that I read in one psychology class that actually a lot of people will experience one or few auditory hallucinations in their life time, and then nothing more. Perhaps it's related to some chemical imbalance or whatever. I'm not sure. But if a person have these hallucinations on a regular basis, it's more serious. Then we better make sure they can't access guns or sharp objects.

[oddbird1963]

Isn't Christianity a form of psychosis?

''a mental disorder characterized by symptoms, such as delusions or hallucinations, that indicate impaired contact with reality''.

 

 

Don't forget that various indigenous cultures such as native Americans, Australian aborigines and various other people groups utilize or invoke visions and dreams as part of their religious (non-Christian) lives.

 

It may simply be that it is part of the human psychological makeup to mold , shape and twist our perceptions of reality to conform to pre-existing expectations, perhaps even to some degree by entertaining hallucinations as authoritative sources of information.

 

Some of that behavior is accepted and even encouraged by certain societies.

 

We only get into the area of mental illness when a behavior is destructive to one's self and others. Or when society, for whatever reason, deems a behavior to be so in violation of accepted ideologies, the person exhibiting that behavior may be excluded, imprisoned, ostracized or killed.

 

There is a clash in worldviews between fundamentalist theologies and the naturalistic, empirical worldviews that serve our world so well today. Whether the clash constitutes psychosis, delusion or some other expression of mental illness depends on the individual case, I suppose.

[Dibllsmek]

I'd think it varies of degrees. I have a great Christian friend who has never tried to reconvert me, he doesn't talk about religion, and he doesn't give me religious answers when I ask a question. On the other hand I have a Christian friend who would always try to sway me back to the dark side. I had family problems and all she would tell me to go to church and pray. She even bought me a bible and nativity set for my birthday (5 days ago).

 

 

@ Ouroboros

 

Thanks for closing Justyna's thread, that was getting out of hand.

[Antlerman]

Life is all about gradually improving our contact with reality. If we acknowledge that then we don't have to snipe at those less further along the way, and we can have some compassion, empathy and understanding for them.

Stamp of Approval Post.

 

Welcome to my club.

[R. S. Martin]

Isn't Christianity a form of psychosis?

''a mental disorder characterized by symptoms, such as delusions or hallucinations, that indicate impaired contact with reality''.

 

 

Don't forget that various indigenous cultures such as native Americans, Australian aborigines and various other people groups utilize or invoke visions and dreams as part of their religious (non-Christian) lives.

 

It may simply be that it is part of the human psychological makeup to mold , shape and twist our perceptions of reality to conform to pre-existing expectations, perhaps even to some degree by entertaining hallucinations as authoritative sources of information.

 

Some of that behavior is accepted and even encouraged by certain societies.

 

We only get into the area of mental illness when a behavior is destructive to one's self and others. Or when society, for whatever reason, deems a behavior to be so in violation of accepted ideologies, the person exhibiting that behavior may be excluded, imprisoned, ostracized or killed.

 

There is a clash in worldviews between fundamentalist theologies and the naturalistic, empirical worldviews that serve our world so well today. Whether the clash constitutes psychosis, delusion or some other expression of mental illness depends on the individual case, I suppose.

 

Thanks for wording this so well. I know what actual psychosis looks like and it has no relation to voluntary religious detachment.

 

The common theme in both cases is that the religious person as well as the psychotic person think they are aware of a reality that is not apparent to the natural/physical eye or senses. There the similarities end.

 

The religious person knows how to differentiate between the physical and so-called spiritual spheres; the psychotic person does not know that what he experiences is not the physical.

 

In other words, psychotic patients are convinced that the things they see and hear are the physical material reality of the "real world." Religious people do not; they simply deny the importance of the real world. They may interpret everyday life in terms of an "other world." For them, the "other world" can be more real than the "real world," but (regardless of their talk or lingo) on a psychological level they do not actually think that their physical bodies of the here-and-now exist in the "other world."

 

At the same time, there may be psychotic individuals who find a haven in religious circles whose ailments go untreated because other members of these religious groups see the hallucinations as prophetic gifts, just as the Bible writers did. It is possible that only family members (esp. dependent children) actually see the true psychosis because the sufferer is able to hide it under the guise of spiritual gifts.

 

On the contrary, here's what one hallucination looks like. My grandmother had advanced Alzheimers at a time when no cure or aid was known. I'd come into her room and she would be on her feet, engaging someone in conversation. Not only was she talking to this person. She was looking at someone's face. The expression on her own face showed that she was engaged in a pleasant and friendly exchange. At the same time, she seemed slightly puzzled or confused as she reached out gently as though to touch the clothing of the person with whom she was communicating.

 

I can only guess what was going on in her battered brain. She did not know I was in the room. I could not see or hear any other person. It was clearly a hallucination, a disconnect with physical reality.

 

Truth be told, in her healthy days she had been a very religious person, but religion did not play a part of this particular hallucination. I saw this one many times.

[oddbird1963]

Thanks, R.S. That was very interesting and thought invoking.

[Overcame Faith]

If Christianity is a form of psychosis, then weren't all ExChristians psychotic at one point in our lives? Here's the answer: not simply by being Christians.

[lunaticheathen]

We only get into the area of mental illness when a behavior is destructive to one's self and others. Or when society, for whatever reason, deems a behavior to be so in violation of accepted ideologies, the person exhibiting that behavior may be excluded, imprisoned, ostracized or killed.

 

There is a clash in worldviews between fundamentalist theologies and the naturalistic, empirical worldviews that serve our world so well today. Whether the clash constitutes psychosis, delusion or some other expression of mental illness depends on the individual case, I suppose.

 

Precisely. It actually states in the DSM IV that one can NOT diagnose someone with a mental illness simply based on a religious belief. If this belief starts to manifest destructive habits, or behaviors that inhibit being functional in one's own life, then something can be said about the manifestations of said beliefs. It's more about behavior.

Yet, one of the signs/symptoms listed in the same manual for schizophrenia is "zealous religious belief." Odd.

 

The common theme in both cases is that the religious person as well as the psychotic person think they are aware of a reality that is not apparent to the natural/physical eye or senses. There the similarities end.

 

The religious person knows how to differentiate between the physical and so-called spiritual spheres; the psychotic person does not know that what he experiences is not the physical.

 

I think this is a very useful and functional way to put it. It also lets me off the hook for being "psychotic" for my own beliefs! I've been called schizophrenic and what have you, more than once, for belief in my experiences outside of christianity. Funny how, in some circles, a christian spiritual experience is a gift, but a pagan one a dangerous delusion for which I need a padded room and a thorazine nap.

 

At the same time, there may be psychotic individuals who find a haven in religious circles whose ailments go untreated because other members of these religious groups see the hallucinations as prophetic gifts, just as the Bible writers did. It is possible that only family members (esp. dependent children) actually see the true psychosis because the sufferer is able to hide it under the guise of spiritual gifts.

 

I see this as the true danger. And I'm sure it happens more than I know. I've even seen it in magickal practitioners, who either slip in their footing of this world, or were mentally unstable to begin with, and fed their own problem with ideas/rituals involving the otherworld. Either one is dangerous, and it can be horribly difficult to tell which has happened. Some people have harmed their minds, and some are just downright crazy.

I don't like it when some think any religious/spiritual belief is a manifestation of some mental disease. If I divulged half of what I think and have experienced, many of you would want to send me to the loony bin. But I pay my taxes, feed the cats, and no, the CIA isn't sending out mind-control waves for which I need a tin-foil hat with the special peanut butter layer. I'm just very spiritual.

[bornagainathiest]

We only get into the area of mental illness when a behavior is destructive to one's self and others. Or when society, for whatever reason, deems a behavior to be so in violation of accepted ideologies, the person exhibiting that behavior may be excluded, imprisoned, ostracized or killed.

 

There is a clash in worldviews between fundamentalist theologies and the naturalistic, empirical worldviews that serve our world so well today. Whether the clash constitutes psychosis, delusion or some other expression of mental illness depends on the individual case, I suppose.

 

Precisely. It actually states in the DSM IV that one can NOT diagnose someone with a mental illness simply based on a religious belief. If this belief starts to manifest destructive habits, or behaviors that inhibit being functional in one's own life, then something can be said about the manifestations of said beliefs. It's more about behavior.

Yet, one of the signs/symptoms listed in the same manual for schizophrenia is "zealous religious belief." Odd.

 

The common theme in both cases is that the religious person as well as the psychotic person think they are aware of a reality that is not apparent to the natural/physical eye or senses. There the similarities end.

 

The religious person knows how to differentiate between the physical and so-called spiritual spheres; the psychotic person does not know that what he experiences is not the physical.

 

I think this is a very useful and functional way to put it. It also lets me off the hook for being "psychotic" for my own beliefs! I've been called schizophrenic and what have you, more than once, for belief in my experiences outside of christianity. Funny how, in some circles, a christian spiritual experience is a gift, but a pagan one a dangerous delusion for which I need a padded room and a thorazine nap.

 

At the same time, there may be psychotic individuals who find a haven in religious circles whose ailments go untreated because other members of these religious groups see the hallucinations as prophetic gifts, just as the Bible writers did. It is possible that only family members (esp. dependent children) actually see the true psychosis because the sufferer is able to hide it under the guise of spiritual gifts.

 

I see this as the true danger. And I'm sure it happens more than I know. I've even seen it in magickal practitioners, who either slip in their footing of this world, or were mentally unstable to begin with, and fed their own problem with ideas/rituals involving the otherworld. Either one is dangerous, and it can be horribly difficult to tell which has happened. Some people have harmed their minds, and some are just downright crazy.

I don't like it when some think any religious/spiritual belief is a manifestation of some mental disease. If I divulged half of what I think and have experienced, many of you would want to send me to the loony bin. But I pay my taxes, feed the cats, and no, the CIA isn't sending out mind-control waves for which I need a tin-foil hat with the special peanut butter layer. I'm just very spiritual.

 

I've highlighted the above sentence in red because, imho, this organization... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Iranian_Oil_Company clearly shows the hypocrisy of the religious fundamentalists who run that country.

 

Iran is an Islamic Fundamentalist Republic, yet if the Ayatollah's want the simoleons from the black gold under their feet, they've got no choice but to use atheistic, naturalistic, empirical science to get it out of the ground.

 

Islamic Creationist science isn't up to the task then?

 

Hmmm.... Who's out of touch with reality now?

 

Go figure.

 

BAA.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

Isn't Christianity a form of psychosis?

One's like her have to have some form of psychosis. XD

 

On another note, I don't think that Christianity is a form of psychosis in of itself. Christianity is a delusion, a false belief of what reality is. Delusions can be due to a mental illness, such as psychosis, but it can also be due to other things.

[lunaticheathen]

Baaahah! The GAWD WARRIOR! I lurve her.