Michael Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Is god tied to laws and rules? Like superman he seems to have weaknesses. 1. He can not be together with sinful people, like normal people can do. * Jesus could be together with sinful people. So there seems to be a way to get around this weakness. 2. Once someone did the unforgivable sin, god can not help this person any longer. 3. He can not forgive without receiving a sacrifice, like normal people can do. I am sure there are more limitations. How can one explain those limitations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedAtheist Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 To answer "theologically": God is limited by His character. Since He is holy, just and righteous He must punish sin. If He doesn't then He is violating His own character. So when there is sin there is punishment. If He doesn't punish then He is not just. All of His attributes must work together otherwise the emphasis on one will result the breaking of another. That is why the gospel is solution to this "problem". Through Christ's death, sin is punished on behalf of all (of the elect) and by belief in Him you attribute your debt to the price He paid. Thus justice, love and righteousness is displayed in this one act. The weakness in this argument is how is it just that another individual paid the price for something someone else did? (Only a problem if you hold onto the PST) I think the general answer is since God is calling the shots and since He is the one whom died than it is safe to say it is "just". The unforgivable sin is generally not considered a single act by which one disqualifies himself. It's more like a symptom of the real problem. Once a person has reached such a level of depravity that they call evil good and good evil (attributing Christ's miraculous works via the Holy Spirit to demonic powers for example) they are so hard hearted that they will not respond to the Spirit's prompting. I'm of a Calvinistic background so I consider that everyone is spiritual depraved and will not respond the Spirit unless God draws them first and regenerates them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted August 10, 2010 Author Share Posted August 10, 2010 God is limited by His character. As humans we are made in his image, but we don't have this kind of limitation. I am limited by my character too. I could not kill someone or cheat on a big amount of money. I would not be able to do this. But to me my character is not a fixed thing. It can deal with variations, it has a spectrum in which it can work. If there is no spectrum, you usually have an impulse control disorder. You are so bound to a behavior that you can not react in a way that is appropriate to the situations. To have this spectrum is a sign of mental health. Many neuroses have their root in a limited spectrum. Since He is holy, just and righteous He must punish sin. If He doesn't then He is violating His own character. So when there is sin there is punishment. If He doesn't punish then He is not just. All of His attributes must work together otherwise the emphasis on one will result the breaking of another. It sounds like a law of nature: If you are holy and just you HAVE to punish sin. Who says this? Who could walk to god and say: "Hey you have to punish sin!"? To whom is god accountable? It sounds like sin is some mysterious powder that god can not stand (like garlic to Dracula) and needs to be washed off. Who expects god to punish sin? He could say: Where sin is, there is forgiveness. As it is not a physical powder he could make new rules..because he has not to deal with physical limitations. Christians often claim that god can do whatever he wants to do. So he could just make up new rules. And if it is not possible to make new rules, then how could the shedding of innocent blood wipe of the invisible powder of sin? Is there some invisible spiritual world involved where this all happens? The unforgivable sin is generally not considered a single act by which one disqualifies himself. It's more like a symptom of the real problem. Once a person has reached such a level of depravity that they call evil good and good evil (attributing Christ's miraculous works via the Holy Spirit to demonic powers for example) they are so hard hearted that they will not respond to the Spirit's prompting. I'm of a Calvinistic background so I consider that everyone is spiritual depraved and will not respond the Spirit unless God draws them first and regenerates them. But god can not make himself understandable for the human? He designed us, but has no way to communicate with us in a direct way? He gave us ears, but he can not make himself audible to us. He gave us eyes, but he can not make himself visible. The creator of us, the one who created the universe and everything can not soften a hardend heart? This is a miracle that happens again and again in couple counseling. Relationships can be restored in real life. It is not easy, but it can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Every being is limited by the laws of logic. Gods can't make square circles. Gods can't eat ham either. It's not kosher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Bible God's major limitation: he can't trump "free will". He also can't have evil or "sin" in his presence. If there is something God can't do, he is not omnipotent. Case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 God's weaknesses are in direct proportion to the limits of human imagination. And guess why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted August 10, 2010 Author Share Posted August 10, 2010 God's weaknesses are in direct proportion to the limits of human imagination. And guess why? Help me...why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Bible God's major limitation: he can't trump "free will". And yet he does. He also can't have evil or "sin" in his presence. I find that excuse from the Christians so weird, considering that Satan was in God's presence (Job, and before he was thrown down), and God met with Adam and Eve after their sin. So God can technically have sin in his presence. It think he made a choice that he just doesn't want to, but he still can. Besides, he's everywhere, so he can't avoid sin or evil. Ps 23 "Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, [a] I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me." In other words, God is even present in HELL!!! At least if I'm supposed to interpret the verses the way we interpreted during my Christian time. Perhaps there's a new "translation" to "valley of the shadow of death" now. If there is something God can't do, he is not omnipotent. Case closed. He can't make himself impotent. Or can he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted August 10, 2010 Author Share Posted August 10, 2010 Bible God's major limitation: he can't trump "free will". Yes, this free will is a powerful stuff. What is the reason for this weakness? Is it respect for the decision of the people? "I will respect your decision and now I kill you!" Christians would put it this way: Without free will we can not have real love. So the "limitation" is not a limitation, it is a strength of god. But is the hell threat not a limitation to free will? It definitely is. The free will in this theology is a faked one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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