I'm at a loss

[regencybrougham]

As for how to deal with family/friends that are Christian. So far I've said nothing about my deconversion. I figure my dad probably knows (I think he "believes" just in case...) and possibly my mom because I know she's seen the books I read.

 

My cousin (and very good friend) is getting her master's in biology but is still apparently seriously into Christianity. Sometime last year (no link or other info, sorry) a dinosaur was found in a mammal's stomach; both fossilized. We were talking on the phone and she said, "Maybe now they'll realize creation happened!" or something to that effect. She said it in sort of a panicked voice which made me think that maybe she's had doubts but I am VERY afraid of venturing into any "forbidden" territory with her.

 

My roommate is also a Christian but he's another story all together. I have no idea how to deal with him. It's like he's from another planet. I can't really describe him any better, if you spent some time with him you would understand.

 

Any help?

[All Gods Fail]

Hey regency - just a few thoughts!

 

You've gone thru a big change - give yourself (and your family) time to adjust. You don't need to venture into 'forbidden' territory if you don't want to. Unlike christians, we're not obligated to convert others!

 

Doesn't mean you can't still love 'em, or that you have to denounce their beliefs. You should at some point probably 'officially' let them know where you are coming from, just to clear the air.

 

But again, there's no rush. Do it on your own time, when it feels right. Might not be this month, or even this year. Whatever!

 

You don't need to run into the middle of a church service and yell God doesn't exist!

 

Just try to relax and enjoy your freedom! It'll work itself out eventually.

 

 

 

As for your roommate, what's his deal? Nuclear Jesus-freak? Or just weird?

[webmdave]

Here's the link about the digesting dino:

 

http://www.livescience.com/animalworld/bel...ast_050112.html

 

I agree with AGF, there is no obligation on your part to argue with family about religion anymore. Arguing about religion is a part of being religious - you feel obligated to spread the mind virus of religion that is living in your brain.

 

Put another way, when you think you have the "TRUTH" you want everyone else to know the "TRUTH."

 

Now you're free from all that, but you might still think you have to spread a message or something -- old habits die hard.

 

You're on new territory now, and there is no rush to proclaim a position. Take your time and enjoy life.

[Lilith]

I agree with AGF, there is no obligation on your part to argue with family about religion anymore. Arguing about religion is a part of being religious - you feel obligated to spread the mind virus of religion that is living in your brain.

 

Put another way, when you think you have the "TRUTH" you want everyone else to know the "TRUTH." 

 

Now you're free from all that, but you might still think you have to spread a message or something -- old habits die hard.

 

You're on new territory now, and there is no rush to proclaim a position.  Take your time and enjoy life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What these guys have said. I've been deconverted for 2 years now, and only my husband and my mother know. My father, step-mom, children, in-laws, et al have no idea. I've beat myself up more than once for not "coming clean" with them, but only this last week realized, "Hey...you know, they're right! I don't have to tell anyone anything!" I'm sure someday the subject will come up. When the time is right, I plan on letting family know. Until that time, it would only break their hearts, and I don't really want to put them through that.

[Checkmate]

I agree with AGF, there is no obligation on your part to argue with family about religion anymore. Arguing about religion is a part of being religious - you feel obligated to spread the mind virus of religion that is living in your brain.

 

Put another way, when you think you have the "TRUTH" you want everyone else to know the "TRUTH." 

 

Now you're free from all that, but you might still think you have to spread a message or something -- old habits die hard.

 

You're on new territory now, and there is no rush to proclaim a position.  Take your time and enjoy life.

Praise be to the .:webmaster:.! I never thought of it like this before. It's not really "religion" that is the meme/virus, but "Truth" and the perverse desire to spread it! Remove "religion" from the equation and "atheism" (or something) rushes in to fill this vacuum. And you still feel compelled to share (demand acceptance of) this "Truth". What were once vices are now habits.

 

The meme is actually the compulsion to dictate "your" Truth™ to others. It's no wonder that ex-Christians find themselves falling into similar patterns of thought behavior. The actual "meme" hasn't been dealt with. To put it another way, we've only dealt with the "symptom", while the virus remains and gestates.

 

Wow. Talk about a revelation. Time to rethink some things. Thanks, Dave!

[Ouroboros]

Michel Foucault (1926-1984) theorized on history and language, argued that Knowledge, Philosophy, Science, Religion all of them, all is part of a power need and power struggle. When we create definitions (like atheist) that is an opposite to something else (theist), we do it because we regard the second group as inferior, abnormal and strange. Reason, knowing, logic are ways of exerting power and influence.

 

Personally I think this need of power is based on our need of control of the chaos that surrounds us. We pretty much are scared little monkeys, that try to impress each other by widening our chests and hitting it while screaming and jumping around looking scary. We haven't changed, we just use words instead.

[Amethyst]

The meme is actually the compulsion to dictate "your" Truth™ to others. It's no wonder that ex-Christians find themselves falling into similar patterns of thought behavior. The actual "meme" hasn't been dealt with. To put it another way, we've only dealt with the "symptom", while the virus remains and gestates.

 

Sooner or later, this will probably be proven to be a genetic tendency. When I was a Christian, I liked to debate. I still like to debate, but now I recognize that there is a time and place for it. Then, I didn't.

 

Regency, your roommate sounds a lot like my cube mate, only fundier. I could have sworn he and I were from different planets when I first realized how brainwashed he was. Maybe they should get an apartment together? (Just kidding.)

[Ouroboros]

Sooner or later, this will probably be proven to be a genetic tendency.  When I was a Christian, I liked to debate.  I still like to debate, but now I recognize that there is a time and place for it.  Then, I didn't.

It is genetic. Our ability to speak and write, is part of this. We have a built-in drive to make up ideas or pick up ideas and then spread them to people around us. Humans are "thought-sprinklers", and memes are shared all the time. We love to communicate, with words, writings, hand signals, hugs, whatever it is, we always need to touch people in some way, and we feel the need of approval to who we are and what we know. This is part of our consciousness. We recalibrate ourself while we make dialogues, and it makes up who we are.

 

And it's fascinating that there are some findings that the human brain made a genetic leap 10,000 years ago, and it probably was the ability to communicate.

[Vixentrox]

Buy some black candles and a satanic bible...gives Xtians the willies when you display them openly. Hehehe.

[Godless Wonder]

There are some posts in this thread expressing the sentiment (as I read them) that people want other people to agree with them because of some sort of power struggle, or some drive to spread teh "TRUTH," etc.

 

I guess I don't see anything wrong with trying to spread (or at least discuss) what one thinks to be the truth. I can understand why Christians, (or Muslims, or whoever) thinking that they know the truth, would want to share this truth. They think that they have found something out, and they want to share it, and allow you to find it out as well. I can understand this. If someone says, "hay, that's a mute point," you may well be tempted to say, "I think you meant 'moot' point." Not because you want to exerty some power over them, but because you want to help them out, and and they are clearly wrong (by definition, as easily verified by consulting a dictionary), and easily corrected. I think Christians (and others) view themselves as being as "right" as the person who says "moot point" rather than "mute point," So it is understandable to me that they might want to spread their view of what i s "right."

 

The problem is, of course, arises whentwo people both think that they have found something out, and what each of them has found out contradicts what the other has found out. It is of course usually complicated when the "finding out," involves the use of "faith," (the antithesis of "real" "finding out," (cue now the one who says they have "found out" that "faith" is the only way to really know somethign... etc.)

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can understand why they proselytizers proselytize. It's because they trs;;u think that they are right, and they want you to be right too. In my own way, I am not different, in that I think that I am right, or rather, that myh conclusions are as right as they can be given the information I have availabele.

 

My main problems with those who differ in opiinions about what is right arise from claims of "righteousness" ("rightness" might be a better word) which are not found upon more than faith.

 

Blech. I've written too much upon a subject whcih shoudl be completely obvious even to a child. Especially to a child.

[Godless Dave]

Here's the link about the digesting dino:

 

http://www.livescience.com/animalworld/bel...ast_050112.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wow, what a badly written article:

 

 

 

It contradicts conventional evolutionary theory that early mammals couldn't possibly attack and eat a dinosaur because they were timid, chipmunk-sized creatures that scurried in the looming shadow of the giant reptiles.

 

That's not "conventional evolutionary theory", that's the AP reporter's grade-school misconception about dinosaurs and early mammals. Furthermore, "evolutionary theory" doesn't say anything about precisely what animals were which size when, or when they went extinct. Paleantology does that.

 

You have to read further down to get some actual science:

 

This new class of predatory mammals has set off new speculation.

 

Originally, scientists believed that mammals remained small because larger dinosaurs were hunting them. Only after dinosaurs went extinct by 65 million years ago did surviving mammals begin to grow larger, they reasoned.

 

Now, the discovery of larger mammals is reversing some of the speculation

[bob]

Personally I think this need of power is based on our need of control of the chaos that surrounds us. We pretty much are scared little monkeys, that try to impress each other by widening our chests and hitting it while screaming and jumping around looking scary. We haven't changed, we just use words instead.

Made me laugh right out loud.

My girlfriend is a Christian. She really has no interest in discussing her faith with me, I guess, because she knows we will disagree. When I was a believer, I thrived on the debate. I sought out those who I disagreed with. Whether it was on pre-post trib rapture, purpose-mode of water baptism, tongues, etc, I loved to dialogue with the opposition.

Now, as an atheist, I love to dialogue with believers. I never bring up the subject with my lady. The few times I have, her demeanor changed almost instantly. She went from a funny little school girl, to a stern old nun. I shut my mouth and avoided eye contact for the rest of the class period.