Ouroboros Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Spirit1st, Let's make a deal here, because what else can I say? You truly believe what you believe! It sounds like that you have a special connection to God himself. And that every time you pray you get an answer. God is proving himself to you over and over. Your life is full of miracles, and God is letting himself get tested by you just to strengthen your faith. Since these miracles prove to you that God exists, the only chance for me to believe is to see these miracles too. So I want to give you a challenge. I want you to pray for my son, that he will walk again. And I promise, that if my son walks again, not with the help of medicine or technical assistance, but only through a miracle, then I will give my life to Jesus again. This is a promise I made several years ago, and if God exists, he knows this, and I have asked this of other Christians before. So now it's up to you Spirit1st. Understand that you have to spend some extra time with God and Jesus on this, because my eternal life is now in your hands. If I go to hell now, it is because either God doesn't care about my son, or he doesn't want to answer, or you didn't spend enough time in prayer. Deal? PS. And don't give me the crappola that "don't test God", since every post you've done so far is about how you pray to God and get miracles, you have been testing him enough. If miracles helped you to believe (as you claim in your intro post), then miracles would help me believe too. So it's not a test, it is a reality check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInPA Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Don't be silly Hans. God is busy answering prayer requests from my wife's church for the local High School football team........... Which by the way is Dover, Pennsylvania Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 12, 2005 Author Share Posted October 12, 2005 You're right Dan. God is too busy helping a little kid to find his kitty or help an old lady find her car keys. God doesn't have time to do the "ol' time" miracles. Btw, didn't Elijah or one of the prophets test God in OT? So why can't we test God by asking for a miracle? OT is full of God saying "here, I show you what I can do!" And what is the bullshit that people wouldn't believe even if they saw miracles. That's total load of crap. Consider this: In current situation only a few of a handfull of people are the True Christians and are the true followers of God. Most people will go to hell, and most Christians believe in a wrong interpretation of the Bible. The alternative would have been that Jesus had stayed as a ectoplasma person the last 2000 years, floating around and through walls, showing himself to everyone, and healing any existing sickness. Do anyone really think there would be fewer believers this way? I bet both my left and right ear and all my cigars on that we would have 10,000 times more True Christians and True Believers in the world. A very few people would actually deny and refuse to believe, since it would be so easy for Jesus to prove the wrong, over and over again. That whole (excuse my language) fucking bullshit that miracles doesn't convince anyone, makes me steam, and especially when we get people now and then convinced that God does miracles, and that's why THEY believe!!! They shouldn't believe, since miracles won't help you believe. Make up your mind!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 12, 2005 Author Share Posted October 12, 2005 Oh I know why miracles don't happen in my life! I'm not guillable enough to be fooled into believing that God helped me find my keys, or that God help stering my foot away from stepping into dog poop. There is natural order and functions, and I refuse to see those things as miracles. A miracle is when the completely impossible happens, against all odds and against nature, not when something that is just improbable but natural happens. A miracle, should be a *miracle*, to be believable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Problem is, what most Xtian's consider miracles, arnt. That's why they think it wouldn't make a difference in our belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 12, 2005 Author Share Posted October 12, 2005 Problem is, what most Xtian's consider miracles, arnt. That's why they think it wouldn't make a difference in our belief. Exactly. Miracles for a xian are the events that easily can be explained by natural events, but you need "faith" to fool yourself that it was supernatural. Self induced delusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Count me in, too. Hans' son walks again because of prayer and a miracle of God, then I'm going back to christianity, too. Promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 12, 2005 Author Share Posted October 12, 2005 If it happens, I will post pictures as proof. I will retrieve the medical records to compare. And I know there is a huge corporation that would love to hear that my son walks again, and the lawers and judges that were involved in the court case. It is not a small pebble in a pond, but it would be ripples that would become waves and a tsunami. Many people would be affected by this miracle. God! It's your chance of a lifetime. Take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Only one stipulation, though. It can't be a Benny Hinn throw away your crutches for the camera deal, and then ten seconds later it's back to the way it was. A real miracle. We get it, we're back into the fold. You listening, God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 That's not all. Get Han's son kicking a football, and I'll go back to leading praise and worship music. Scout's honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Hans, for the benefit of anyone reading who might be unaware of your son's condition and would like a few more details, would you relate to us what befell your son that led to this tragic situation? Also, were you and your wife Christians when this happened? Merci d'avance, Reach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 12, 2005 Author Share Posted October 12, 2005 Hans, for the benefit of anyone reading who might be unaware of your son's condition and would like a few more details, would you relate to us what befell your son that led to this tragic situation? Also, were you and your wife Christians when this happened? Merci d'avance, Reach My eximony has been much delayed, and it's my own fault. I'm just trying to assemble enough will to start writing it. It could become a long one, and I don't want that. I better get started right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 I better get started right now. Hans, for the sake of this topic, a brief recap will do the job nicely. Perhaps you'd post a paragraph or two of the most important details? You could finish the rest of your testimony later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 12, 2005 Author Share Posted October 12, 2005 Hans, for the sake of this topic, a brief recap will do the job nicely. Perhaps you'd post a paragraph or two of the most important details? You could finish the rest of your testimony later? I'm working on it. (Done) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 14, 2005 Author Share Posted October 14, 2005 Just an update. My son is still in wheelchair. Nothing has changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clergicide Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Just an update. My son is still in wheelchair. Nothing has changed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nope nothing's changed...either God's plan sucks balls, or it's nonexistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caretaker Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Hans.... How long do you give them to do this? A year? 5? Two weeks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Doesn't matter I suspect as nothing fails like prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caretaker Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Doesn't matter I suspect as nothing fails like prayer. Are you nothingfailslikeprayer on some other service??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caretaker Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 I have wondered lately if this would be another solution.... After all, I think we should show that science has a better track record than prayer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Are you nothingfailslikeprayer on some other service??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Huh? Not sure what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 14, 2005 Author Share Posted October 14, 2005 Hans.... How long do you give them to do this? A year? 5? Two weeks? I haven't given them any time limit. We got a lot of prayers 9 years ago, and still waiting. There were an unknown number of Churches in America that prayed, a whole bunch in Sweden, some in Europe, we even heard the news went to Churches in Africa. We estimate 10-20,000 people (or maybe more) must have had us in prayers for 6 months. It wouldn't surprise me if it was even brought to the Kenneth Hagin ministry, since our former pastor on Sweden had strong connections there. And maybe also the Oral Roberts ministry. We went back to Sweden for prayer and the hands-on prayers. A congregation of 2,000 people and a Bible school of 1,500+ students prayed for my son. We got a letter from Bill Clinton, saying that he had us in his "thoughts". We "had faith", or at least, we wanted to believe. It's hard to believe when your emotions are shot to shreds. Will the prayers from the people on TribForces do any change? I sure wish it could, but I really don't think it will. It's just wishful thinking... As far as I'm concerned, they can pray as much as they want, and as long as they want. It would be a test on their devotion and commitment, and how strong their faith is. I saw on tribs, that they even were praying for me, and for this site, that we would realize our ... what was it... pride or something? gwahahaha! And I saw Pug, admitting to his faith being tested here. Well, well, we are a hard bunch to be acquainted with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 I'm sure the response will be "It wasn't God's will".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 14, 2005 Author Share Posted October 14, 2005 I have wondered lately if this would be another solution.... After all, I think we should show that science has a better track record than prayer... You know, I do have one belief. I believe my son will walk again one day. But not by a miracle of supernatural events, but through medicine and science. They are making good advanced in this area, and in 10-20 years, I'm certain he will walk. Oh, this is cool. Yesterday I saw on TV, the first cop, ever, to go back to field duty after having his leg amputated. The first bionic cop. He has a "intelligent" artifical leg. He can even run and drive a car!!! Awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 14, 2005 Author Share Posted October 14, 2005 I'm sure the response will be "It wasn't God's will".... Of course. Which indirectly means that it was God's will for my son not to walk. And my deconversion? It must be God's will too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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