Eugene39 Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 I was raised in a fundamentalist second-blessing holiness church. The first pastor that I really remember had retired from evangelistic work, so most of his sermons ended with a vivid description of hell and an altar call. I remember at one point, crawling around the house at night on my hands and knees because God had told me to do so, in an effort to stay out of hell. I remember accepting Jesus when I was around 6 or 7. Later, Mom encouraged me to take communion. I was afraid of the verses about taking communion unworthily, but did it anyway in order to satisfy mom. For years after that, every time I got sick, I thought God was punishing or going to kill me for taking communion. Then I hit puberty. I was taught that even having "wet dreams" was wrong, much less anything else. I strongly remember how unacceptable I was to God because of my sexuality. When I was around 15, I was so depressed by the entire "I can't live up to God's standard" thing, that I was seriously contemplating ending my life. For whatever reason, things somewhat leveled out for a long period of time, where God was something I tolerated and would on occasions, make an attempt to be a Christian. Mom passed on when I was 29 (1999) and some other things were depressing me, along with a growing hatred of God, and in 2004, I was once again contemplating suicide. I came back to God and for a period of around a year, He and I had a fairly decent relationship. Around 3 years ago, my Sunday school teacher encouraged us to read the Bible through in a year. I thought that sounded like a good thing to do. By the time I got through the Old Testament, there had been little seeds of doubt planted about the veracity of Christianity. I suppressed all this in my mind, but as seeds tend to do, they continued to grow. By this spring, I could ignore it no longer. I determined that the time was ripe for me to make up my mind on which direction I was going to go. My last prayers as a Christian was for God to guide me to what the truth is. I am intellectually done with Christianity, but emotionally I still have some bad days where I just need to hear someone say that I'm not going to hell. I have told my wife of my intentions to leave church (which she took quite well), but am close to starting informing a few people in church of my leaving, since I do background work in the church, and I don't want to just dump the people that I am helping. As for where I'm headed religiously, I don't know. I've studied Noahism and Judaism, but still can't reconcile the good God vs. the evil God of the Old Testament which are described as one person. I'm interested in Deism at this point, but will see. Thanks for reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Welcome Eugene! You are not going to hell. There never was a hell to begin with, nor did the orthodox Jews ever have that concept. The god of the Bible is, as you have figured out, evil. Punishes people for liking sex, bloodthirsty, says he forgives but demands blood anyway, and what the hell would a transcendent deity want with blood anyway? Primitive myths that have somehow continued to have a stronghold until the 21st Century, probably because people were too afraid to dump it. Ah well, I'm ranting. I'm probably a deist of sorts at this point also, though I don't even know how to describe the source of life I think might be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renoliz Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Welcome to exC, Eugene. I was intellectually done with Christianity but strangely still afraid of hell and Satan when I quit going to church. I am fine now. I think the rational part of my mind knew for a fact that the Hell stuff was BS but emotionally it was rough. So, I appreciated your story. Good for you for using your brain. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HELL! I am saying it loud and saying it proud. There is no hell to go to. Ever notice how the Old Testament doesn't even have hell in it? An important concept like that and God doesn't even mention it at all in the Old Testament. Ummmm, what is up with that? The New Testament doesn't have hardly a word about Hell when it is translated appropriately. Besides, how can God torture people physically when we don't even have real bodies? It just doesn't make sense. All that hellfire nonsense is so that the churches can grab hold of your brain and keep you worried. I overcame my fears by saying to myself "Hell is not real. There is no rational reason to believe in Hell." Stay in the rational mind and keep going. Sounds like you are doing fantastic.I am so glad your wife took it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th☼mas Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Sorry to hear about this Eugene. You have suffered much psychological abuse. I won't bore you with theology, since this isn't the forum for it, but sufficed to say you've been subjected to some of the worst kind of Fundamentalism known within Christendom. For what it's worth, there other non-literalist, non-Fundamentalist strains of Christianity out there. Anyway, I found your post very sad and made me angry that for the 2000 years of theology that's been done, it's the 20th cent. Fundamentism that seems to really damage people. Rest easy mate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Allen Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Welcome Eugene. I am sad to hear all that you have suffered. Your decision not to believe the God of the Bible is a triumph. Congratulations. You are not going to any place that does not exist, including hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XcaliburGirl Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I don't know if your mother was raised in fundamentalist Christianity too, but I often wonder if parents who got into it as an adult and teach it to their children don't realize how seriously we take the idea of unworthiness. With no other life experience to temper that idea, it becomes unbearable. You are not going to hell. You are not unworthy. You are a human just like the rest of us with some faults and some great qualities. If you are interested in deism, look into deism. Yes, I stereotypically ended up using it as a stepping stone to atheism, but I'd probably still be a deist if it wasn't for the fact that atheism just sits better for me (a deistic god won't torture me for not believing, so I'm good either way). All the deist sites are big on trusting reason and not the bible which is just hearsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom from Guilt Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Welcome Eugene! I could identify with your testimony. It sounds familiar to what I went through. The god of the OT really horrifies me! Just keep researching! And I agree with everyone else, there is NO hell! But I can identify with you in the emotional baggage you are carrying around. It takes time! Welcome to the forum. This place has been a tremendous help to me during this journey. freedom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 The New Testament doesn't have hardly a word about Hell when it is translated appropriately. Besides, how can God torture people physically when we don't even have real bodies? It just doesn't make sense. All that hellfire nonsense is so that the churches can grab hold of your brain and keep you worried. That's what gets me. Hell is such a pivotal, pivotal, pivotal tenet of fundamentalist Christianity. Without hell, who the fuck needs Jesus? Without hell, the building crumbles. And yet the New Testament is so vague about it. You'd think something so important as that would have gotten an entire fucking Epistle written specifically and explicitly about it. When I was deconverting I tried to buy into liberal Christianity where there is no hell and everyone's cool. But then I realized that without hell, what was even the fucking point? Just to babble on and on about how "God is love" and we should all be nice to each other? So I went all the way to agnosticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene39 Posted November 14, 2010 Author Share Posted November 14, 2010 Thanks to all for your replies!!! Yes, my mom was raised in the very strict holiness movement also. I'm well aware of liberal Christianity because my mom's brother deconverted to that years ago. There are multiple problems that I found between the Old and New Testament, which I'm of half a mind to write about at some point, which made me come to the conclusion that Christianity itself is fatally flawed. Am hanging in there, I have Marlene Winell's book and this website, so I'll be fine (eventually). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 Hi, Eugene, and welcome to ExC. I'm glad to read that you have swum to the surface and taken a great big breath. Being trapped in faith is like being below the surface of a lake, needing air, seeing what you think is the surface, but not quite being able to get there. Realizing that Christianity is all that's keeping you submerged, releases you so you can swim to the surface and fill your lungs with the air you so desperately needed. Your transition out of Christianity can be difficult, but remember that you are not alone. We've been there, too. Your fears are not unusual, so don't feel like you are abnormal. And I'll say what the others have said, there is no hell. Now take another breath of fresh air and really enjoy it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene39 Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 Today is the one year anniversary of my first post here. Looking back, I remember how frightened that I was a year ago. The God that I served had killed Ananias and Sapphira for thinking that they were merely lying to fellow church members - what would God do to me for walking away entirely? How was this my fault? Why did reading the Bible through in a year have to become the beginning of the end? Why did the book that had before, held all the answers to life, have to become incoherent? January and February of this year were months spent in fear that God would reliate against either me or my wife and kids, because of my loss of faith. And there was still hope that some idea of man would guide me to a correct religious belief. In the end, God didn't reliate, kill...or do anything. (I now think that's because non-existant things obviously can't kill and reliate.) And I've concluded that nobody has a correct religious belief that I must follow, in order to be or become acceptable to God. If there is anything to spirituality, it is a path for me alone. The process of learning how to think for ones-self isn't easy, and then there are the occasional flash-backs, but those are getting fewer and farther between. There are still vestiges of the old thinking that if I live long enough, maybe I'll rid myself of it. I've enjoyed my first year here. Thanks for reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 congrats on your 1year anniversary of posting and 3 years + from reading the entire bible,,,,,, there is no hell, you are as good as anybody you wanted to be,,, your good works are just good works,,,,, you are not a sinner because you have not fallen short of any "moral god" standard,,, live well and enjoy life 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Try to turn it on it's head. Imagine that your Pastor told you that Satan had a grand plan. Satan arranged it so that everyone must really believe that 2 and 3 are the exact same number or else Satan gets to torture them for all eternity. You can't fake it either. You can't pretend to believe it or just give it lip service. You really have to delude yourself into thinking nonsense that 2 is 3 and 3 is 2. Satan is too stubborn and will never change the rules so if you want others to escape too then you have to do everything in your power to make them believe the nonsense. The end result is that a few people will escape while the vast majority get the eternal torment. And to top it all off Satan requires the self deluded people to call this torture fetish "justice" or else they do not escape after all. Oh and they also have to call Satan "all-good" and worship Satan every week out of gratitude or else they get the eternal torture. Isn't that story pure evil? Wouldn't a being that did that be pure evil? Doesn't it sound like something a comic book character would do? Yet Christians claim that an all-good God of Justice did pretty much the same thing just using a different nonsense about God sacrificing himself to himself to appease himself only it wasn't a real sacrifice because God didn't stay dead. 2 = 3 and 3 = 2. God is the one who is too stubborn the change the rules. But God supposedly knew that most people would be tortured forever. God is the one who invented the eternal torture idea. So who is the evil comic book character? God is the villain of a Harry Potter movie. God shouts "Bwahahah now I get to torture them all" and Potter smashes the magic cross to save the world. There is no reason to believe in hell. The people who believe in hell do not know what they are talking about. They were indoctrinated into a man made myth from the man made Bible and these people delude themselves. MM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikirin Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 "Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station." -Grand Moff Tarkin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Today is the one year anniversary of my first post here. Looking back, I remember how frightened that I was a year ago. January and February of this year were months spent in fear that God would retaliate against either me or my wife and kids, because of my loss of faith. The process of learning how to think for ones-self isn't easy, and then there are the occasional flash-backs, but those are getting fewer and farther between. There are still vestiges of the old thinking that if I live long enough, maybe I'll rid myself of it. Hi Eugene39. Congratulations on your exiversary! I was just going through some interesting-looking threads and that's how I stumbled across this one. In your original post you said, "I remember at one point, crawling around the house at night on my hands and knees because God had told me to do so, in an effort to stay out of hell." Wow, that is such a slice of my life too. My goodness, the things I did! Anyhow, concerning where you're at today, I marvel at how far you have come. It's not easy, that's for sure. I still have vestiges of the old thinking and flashbacks also. I feel so free and so tired, after years of convoluted thinking and beating myself up. Cheers, brother. I raise the glass to you! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted November 12, 2011 Moderator Share Posted November 12, 2011 Eugene, it has been wonderful reading your posts for the last year.They have helped me immensely! I am not much help today - just wanted to post my honest feelings. I suspect for me that the fear of hell will always be a little tiny bit on my mind till the day I die. I was so indocrinated by the fear of hell, that It is part of my neural networks, I am afraid.... Maybe, one more year of posting and reading and I will finally be totally free of that fear. I just wanted you to know, it has been a pleasure having you as an 'online friend' and I sincerely wish you all the best! Margee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfessor Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 The concept of hell is just a way for churches to control people. Those who claim there is a hell, you'll notice, always use it as a club to keep people thinking inline with their beliefs. There's the people in the church who feel if they do certain things, or believe certain things, or think they are devout, that they have judged themselves as not going to hell in complete contradiction to their own bible. Be happy knowing there are many, many people who believe like those on this forum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sissi Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 This is the fear of hell that keep me so (and too) many years when I would have left a long time ago Fear of hell is a strong mind control. When you start thinking by yourself, you also fear to sin. You need a lot of time...and give you this time.... it is not an easy path. As said in my testimony, it took me 5 years to go out of all this mess. The doctrine kept me back several times before I really moved on... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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