Reconsidering Religion

[MagickMonkey]

As Florduh wisely suggests, meditation can be a great controller of anxiety. If you adopt Islam you're still gonna have that same nasty god to deal with. Same god, same hellfire and threats. Also, I'm sure you wouldn't like, as a woman in Islam, being viewed as a second class citizen. That's not for radical Muslims, it's all in the Koran.

 

Perhaps take a look at Buddhism. Not strictly a religion, it could be a good way for you. Meditation included!

 

That's not true. Only Islam has the original and pure concept of God, that's why as a final revelation (completing the revelations before it including Christianity) it is complete and for the entire universe. It is the perfect religion, and everybody is born with this inclination to believe in God. But when he grows up, it is the society or parents that influence him. And women are NOT considered second class citizens, so please don't twist words of the book. Anyone looking for the perfect religion for peace for truth would find it in Islam if they find it from Islam without bias from other sources.

 

Gender: Even gender does not count as a criterion of superiority. In Islam, women are as human as men. They are not evaluated on basis of their gender, but on basis of their faith and character. Fourteen hundred years ago, the Qur'an recorded God's clear statements on this issue. Out of the four verses, I will just quote one: "Whoever, be it a male or a female, does good deeds and he or she is a believer, then they will enter the Paradise." (Qur'an: chp. 4, verse 124). So there is no difference in the degree or level of woman's humanity or honor in Islam.

 

The only difference there exists is concerning the role which Islam has envisioned for man and woman. This has nothing to do with superiority or inferiority. In Islam, man and woman are equalm in rights; but equality is not synonymous to similarity. Islam believes that man and woman are equal but dissimilar. Islam looks at their different roles in society not as superior or inferior but as complementary to each other.

 

http://www.al-islam....ro/rizvi.html#4

 

I was going to say a few things, but looks like Crazy Donna has it covered.

[lunaticheathen]

You can't believe in several different supernatural belief systems, without ONLY, just liking the sayings.

 

You can't believe in Yahweh and Allah at the same time, for example.

 

You can't believe in multiple monotheistic religions without a lot of cognitive dissonance, but many of the polytheistic systems are set up to encourage people to choose to follow the gods and goddesses that best suit them. I am by no means an expert on the topic, but I've read that in Greek/Roman society, it was totally ok to be initiated into more than one mystery cult. Though I still disagree with the basic idea of gods/goddesses, it seems healthier to me to say "pick which god(desse)s, or which of the hundreds of aspects of the singular deity speak to you most" instead of a one-size-fits-all monotheism that Christianity claims. I wonder sometimes if that's why Catholics have so many saints, as a way to get a diverse set of people to feel like they can belong together. Sometimes when I feel lonely, I read about polytheistic deities to try to find an archetype/role model that appeals to me, just for the comfort of knowing that, at some point in history, there were other humans who think/feel like I do who imagined such a being.

 

I've also heard some hilarious stories of missionaries to India who told the natives about Jesus, the natives said "sounds like a great god!" and added him to their pantheon, totally missing the exclusivity part.

 

+1. Exactly what I thought when I read Valk's post. Only the Abrahamic monotheisms are like exclusive little cults where they bind you hand and foot to their "jealous" god. Vodou practitioners are very commonly Catholic, though I'm sure their priest wouldn't like that, in their own minds, it's fine. Also, Vodouisants are commonly found (I learned) in Kemetic Orthodoxy, which is itself a legally recognized religion, and has no problem with people having other religious beliefs and practices. They even encourage converts to NOT abandon their previous beliefs - not for the sake of KO anyway.

Eclectic pagans abound, and while some traditional pagans sneer at them, their behavior is well supported by what VF stated before about the Roman Empire. Hell, there was a vibrant cult of Isis in late Roman times!

Only Abrahamism preaches "my way or the highway."

[MagickMonkey]

I honestly do not intend to sound mean or condescending, but sometimes speaking bluntly is the best way to speak clearly, so..... I guess some degree of non-compulsory religiosity can be harmless, but it just blows my mind that someone can just pick a religion and decide to believe in it. How can anyone just pick a religion or just pick and choose things from various religions or just make up some all together new religion and just say, "I like that, I'll believe in that". Other than what we have the ability to change, reality has absolutely nothing to do with what we want to believe. It has nothing to do with what we feel or need. Various beliefs may be psychologically beneficial, but that does not make them true.

 

If I may chime in.

I have "offbeat" religious beliefs, but I don't feel that any of them were picked at random, or just because I liked them. I was drawn to the belief/deity/practice. It helps me at the time. My intuition DOES tell me what I need at the time.

Also, I'm considering actually taking classes and joining a recognized and official religion. Yes, it scared the pee out of me at the time, but I'm coming to like the idea. Since I have been doing practices styled after their tradition, I have felt calmer (overall). I think this religion will help me.

Alaska, I don't know if the same will to happen with you, (it's Kemetic Orthodoxy, btw kemet.org ), but you can practice other faiths with it, and the beginner's classes start in Feb. It's worth a look, and I feel the same need of order at this time in my life. They're non-dogmatic, and after the (free) classes, you can leave.

Just a thought.

 

I do not think intuition is very good for determining the truth. I guess there are cases where intuition can be helpful when there is not enough information to make a rational determination of truth. A gut feeling might keep you from making a bad decision that ends your life, but it might also lead to a decision without any significance. I think Intuition is something we've inherited from our more primitive ancestors that worked to some degree for them, but now we have the cognitive abilities to think rationally. Rational thought is better.

 

Intuition isn't the universe talking to you. There is nothing truly spiritual about it. As far as I know, it is a result of some subconscious number crunching using data that isn't necessarily trustworthy. The results aren't close to being conclusive.

 

 

Think about taking a test. If you do not know the answer to a multiple choice question, your gut feeling about the answer may very well be better than just randomly choosing an answer. However, studying before taking the test and knowing the right answer for sure works much better. And you will not pass a calculus test using intuition. When making determinations about reality, I'll take physics over intuition any day.

[Deva]

+1. Exactly what I thought when I read Valk's post. Only the Abrahamic monotheisms are like exclusive little cults where they bind you hand and foot to their "jealous" god. Vodou practitioners are very commonly Catholic, though I'm sure their priest wouldn't like that, in their own minds, it's fine. Also, Vodouisants are commonly found (I learned) in Kemetic Orthodoxy, which is itself a legally recognized religion, and has no problem with people having other religious beliefs and practices. They even encourage converts to NOT abandon their previous beliefs - not for the sake of KO anyway.

Eclectic pagans abound, and while some traditional pagans sneer at them, their behavior is well supported by what VF stated before about the Roman Empire. Hell, there was a vibrant cult of Isis in late Roman times!

Only Abrahamism preaches "my way or the highway."

 

 

Agreed. I would run from any group that says "I have the only way." Its good if other types of beliefs are permitted. See if they deconstruct their own beliefs. Then I am really interested.

 

I do not think intuition is unimportant. Often the gut instinct is what you need to go with, even if you don't understand it all. This is if you intend to be happy. You can always get out later if you find out your initial impression was mistaken.

[lunaticheathen]

I do not think intuition is very good for determining the truth. I guess there are cases where intuition can be helpful when there is not enough information to make a rational determination of truth. A gut feeling might keep you from making a bad decision that ends your life, but it might also lead to a decision without any significance. I think Intuition is something we've inherited from our more primitive ancestors that worked to some degree for them, but now we have the cognitive abilities to think rationally. Rational thought is better.

 

Intuition isn't the universe talking to you. There is nothing truly spiritual about it.

 

I don't believe rational thought is always better. And how are spiritual matters NOT areas where "there is not enough information to make a rational determination of truth?"

 

Intuition may not be exclusively spiritual, but I have found that it is. But this is my truth, and I have never been a materialist atheist. My reality doesn't end and begin with hard data. Call me crazy if you wish.

[MagickMonkey]

I do not think intuition is very good for determining the truth. I guess there are cases where intuition can be helpful when there is not enough information to make a rational determination of truth. A gut feeling might keep you from making a bad decision that ends your life, but it might also lead to a decision without any significance. I think Intuition is something we've inherited from our more primitive ancestors that worked to some degree for them, but now we have the cognitive abilities to think rationally. Rational thought is better.

 

Intuition isn't the universe talking to you. There is nothing truly spiritual about it.

 

I don't believe rational thought is always better. And how are spiritual matters NOT areas where "there is not enough information to make a rational determination of truth?"

 

Intuition may not be exclusively spiritual, but I have found that it is. But this is my truth, and I have never been a materialist atheist. My reality doesn't end and begin with hard data. Call me crazy if you wish.

 

Rational thought IS always better. Spiritual matters are beyond the scope of the purpose of intuition. Suppose you live in the city, you are walking home, and you have the choice of taking a short cut across a dark alley. You gut feeling is that the dark alley is dangerous. Listening to your gut instinct might just keep you a live. But there is a BIG difference between saying, "I think that alley might be dangerous - I'd better not go down there", and "I know for a fact that there is someone in that alley waiting to kill me". Even in this case, intuition is not a substitute for determining the truth in a rational manner. It is only a way to gauge a very rough probability of danger. Intuition is a simple tool for survival. As a side effect, it might lead you to think some religious belief that appeals to your intuition has some veracity, but it makes no sense to trust intuition in such matters. It is beyond the scope of intuition's purpose.

 

Also, there is no "my reality" and "your reality". There is only reality and our individual perspectives of reality, all of which are very incomplete and all of which have some degree of inaccuracy.

[MagickMonkey]

As Florduh wisely suggests, meditation can be a great controller of anxiety. If you adopt Islam you're still gonna have that same nasty god to deal with. Same god, same hellfire and threats. Also, I'm sure you wouldn't like, as a woman in Islam, being viewed as a second class citizen. That's not for radical Muslims, it's all in the Koran.

 

Perhaps take a look at Buddhism. Not strictly a religion, it could be a good way for you. Meditation included!

 

That's not true. Only Islam has the original and pure concept of God, that's why as a final revelation (completing the revelations before it including Christianity) it is complete and for the entire universe. It is the perfect religion, and everybody is born with this inclination to believe in God. But when he grows up, it is the society or parents that influence him. And women are NOT considered second class citizens, so please don't twist words of the book. Anyone looking for the perfect religion for peace for truth would find it in Islam if they find it from Islam without bias from other sources.

 

Gender: Even gender does not count as a criterion of superiority. In Islam, women are as human as men. They are not evaluated on basis of their gender, but on basis of their faith and character. Fourteen hundred years ago, the Qur'an recorded God's clear statements on this issue. Out of the four verses, I will just quote one: "Whoever, be it a male or a female, does good deeds and he or she is a believer, then they will enter the Paradise." (Qur'an: chp. 4, verse 124). So there is no difference in the degree or level of woman's humanity or honor in Islam.

 

The only difference there exists is concerning the role which Islam has envisioned for man and woman. This has nothing to do with superiority or inferiority. In Islam, man and woman are equalm in rights; but equality is not synonymous to similarity. Islam believes that man and woman are equal but dissimilar. Islam looks at their different roles in society not as superior or inferior but as complementary to each other.

 

http://www.al-islam....ro/rizvi.html#4

 

I was going to say a few things, but looks like Crazy Donna has it covered.

 

Wow, this post got a +1. Was this a way to encourage me to keep my mouth shut?

[lunaticheathen]

Rational thought IS always better. Spiritual matters are beyond the scope of the purpose of intuition.

Also, there is no "my reality" and "your reality". There is only reality and our individual perspectives of reality, all of which are very incomplete and all of which have some degree of inaccuracy.

 

I'll stay in the Ex-C Theism and Spirituality forum then. I'm obviously not smart enough.

[MagickMonkey]

Rational thought IS always better. Spiritual matters are beyond the scope of the purpose of intuition.

Also, there is no "my reality" and "your reality". There is only reality and our individual perspectives of reality, all of which are very incomplete and all of which have some degree of inaccuracy.

 

I'll stay in the Ex-C Theism and Spirituality forum then. I'm obviously not smart enough.

 

Please do not take my comments personally. I certainly do not intend them to be personal attacks.

[lunaticheathen]

Please do not take my comments personally. I certainly do not intend them to be personal attacks.

 

Ok, that was snarky of me. I apologize.

 

I just buck against absolutes. Saying rational thought is ALWAYS better just makes me go "no it's not!" Also, I really don't think it is. We're not Vulcans, and beyond the pointy ears and the nerve pinches, face it, they're BORING. I go for a more balanced approach. I believe in a soul, in a lot of "weird" things, but I don't think I can control the weather or make water run uphill. I giggle at the images on grilled cheese sandwiches. Some things ARE silly, but my spiritual path is not, nor is it less valuable to me because it strays outside of pure rational thought.

 

And maybe it is all in my head, but so what? Is love less important when you boil it down to endorphins and biological imperatives? Is it useless to gift the genitals of plants to someone who your brain chemistry deems to be a mate with superior genetics? Putting it that way MAY be true, but it's fucking cold, and I don't like it.

[dB-Paradox]

I haven't read all the replies in this thread and I'm too lazy to do so...but why choose a religion for comfort? If you need something to believe in, why not just become a deist? Not a religion, I don't think. Buddhism is also a peaceful and loving way of life, not necessarily a religion either.

[MagickMonkey]

Please do not take my comments personally. I certainly do not intend them to be personal attacks.

 

Ok, that was snarky of me. I apologize.

 

I just buck against absolutes. Saying rational thought is ALWAYS better just makes me go "no it's not!" Also, I really don't think it is. We're not Vulcans, and beyond the pointy ears and the nerve pinches, face it, they're BORING. I go for a more balanced approach. I believe in a soul, in a lot of "weird" things, but I don't think I can control the weather or make water run uphill. I giggle at the images on grilled cheese sandwiches. Some things ARE silly, but my spiritual path is not, nor is it less valuable to me because it strays outside of pure rational thought.

 

And maybe it is all in my head, but so what? Is love less important when you boil it down to endorphins and biological imperatives? Is it useless to gift the genitals of plants to someone who your brain chemistry deems to be a mate with superior genetics? Putting it that way MAY be true, but it's fucking cold, and I don't like it.

 

 

Thanks. I know sometimes I am not careful enough about how I phrase things, and I appologize for making it sound like an attack. I agree that logic, by itself, is quite cold. Without emotions, we cannot enjoy life.(Especially considering enjoyment is an emotional thing. )

 

 

[florduh]

Only Islam has the original and pure concept of God

[stryper]

I personally found this most helpful when I stopped christianity.

 

Take from it what you will and leave what doesn't work.

 

The two best things for me were that my life is my choice, and if you screw up you'll get another chance in the next life.

 

 

[Vomit Comet]

and if you screw up you'll get another chance in the next life.

 

 

One reason that good times are so good is that they're so much better when compared to the bad times. If this life sucks, it will be cold comfort that the next life might be better, because my next incarnation will not be able to say "wow, this sure beats the hell out of my last incarnation!" So I consider that to be false comfort. Whereas if the Christian heaven were real, and wasn't boring, and I got to go to it when I died, I would say "wow, this sure beats the hell out of my earthly life!" There's continuity there, you see, where the better times are so good because they're so much better than the shittier times.