Their God Didn't Make Sense

[FinallyFree]

I was born into a catholic family. My dad found god when I was 5 or 6, and we became born-again christians. When I said the sinner's prayer to receive my salvation, I had absolutely no clue what was going on. Right away my dad had us throw all our catholic relics into the wood stove and sat us down to watch "A Thief in the Night" - 1972. This movie traumatized me, and continued to scare me until I decided christianity was a farce.

 

My dad couldn't quite find a church in our area that he liked, so we traveled over one hour to church every Sunday and every Wednesday night for bible study (even on school nights). The church that my dad finally liked was a non-denominational, full gospel, spirit filled church. I was prayed for and was baptized in the holy spirit, but I couldn't speak in tongues. I was prayed for on multiple occasions to receive the gift of tongues, but wasn't able to do it until I was 24. The reason for that was because the whole time I was waiting for god to put the words in me, or to hear something from god - but I never heard anything. Once I realized that I had to do it myself - boom - I was a pro.

 

I got married when I was 18, and my husbands family made me begin to question my beliefs. The only problem was, their version of christianity was just as bad, if not worse. Nevertheless, it did being the questioning process.

 

Some of the things that didn't make sense to me:

 

1. The Holy Trinity - Makes no sense at all. God is the father, Jesus is the Son, and the Holy Spirit came into the earth as the comforter after Jesus left. But they are all the same person. But they are all different people. But it's like ice, water, and steam. But when Jesus was crucified God turned his back on him - how can you turn your back on yourself? Anyway I looked at it, I couldn't wrap my head around it...

 

2. Forgiveness - christians are supposed to forgive others in the same way that god forgives christians which was described to me as the following: When you ask god for forgiveness of your sins, he throws those sins as far as east is from west, and if you bring them up again, he does not recall what you are referring to - forgive and forget. PROBLEM! I have no problem with the forgive part, but it's not always smart to forget. EXAMPLE: If someone rapes your daughter, you can (potentially) forgive that person, but you cannot forget it - for if you do, you may invite that person to dinner or in some way put your daughter in danger of being hurt by that person again. I know it's an extreme example, but...

 

3. Sin - I have always been told that god is a good god, he is a loving god, and he is just. I have also been told that all sin is judged the same, regardless of the severity. Think about this - some people who do bad things are not playing with a full deck of cards. Example: I feel that anyone who can harm a child is not right in the head. Therefore, how can a just god condemn that person if they were at a disadvantage to being with? (not saying they shouldn't be dealt with severely, just trying to point out the unjust reality)

 

4. God's Love - If god is so loving, why would he tell people to stone gay people to death? Why would he then also say (in a different story) let he who is without sin throw the first stone. We talk so much about God's love, but we preach hate.

 

5. You Must Be Born Again - If this is the most important thing a person must do to get into heaven, why is it not mentioned in more spots in the bible? Why is the sinner's prayer, which one must pray in order to become born again, outlined in the bible? No matter how good or a person you are, if you haven't prayed that prayer - you are going to hell. According to my parents, my Grandmother is going to hell. She is catholic, and she goes to church every day. She spends most of her time reading the bible and praying for anyone who needs it. When she is not doing those things she is busy cleaning the church, visiting folks at the nursing home, and volunteering at the food pantry. Not a good candidate for hell if you ask me.

 

...and that's where the fun starts...

 

Reasons why you don't understand:

1. Man's mind is finite, but god is infinite; therefore, it is beyond our level of comprehension.

2. You don't have enough faith.

3. You just need to trust god.

4. The bible says it, and everything in the bible is true.

5. If you pray more, god will reveal it to you.

 

 

I guess my two biggest triggers for throwing in the towel on christianity is that the whole thing is fear based and full of hatred. Not to mention that the basis of the religion - the bible - can be interpreted in countless ways.

[Blue elephant]

Welcome Finally Free!

 

I reckon you have summed up the problems most of us have had with Christianity.

 

Hope you have an enjoyable and uplifting time communicating with all of us on the Ex-C boards.

[Randi]

Welcome! I agree with everything you said. The thing that got to me after a long time was the gay thing. If I had a son and he came home and said, mom, I'm gay, would I set him on fire and walk away saying, "Depart, I knew you not." ? Uh, no, and that would make me a bad person wouldn't it? Yet, attribute this same thing to god and he's just and loving. Bullshit! Welcome to the dark side! It's actually the bright side.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Welcome!

1. Yep. God kills self as a sacrifice to self, to pacify his own anger.

2. God of the Bible tells us to forgive as he forgave. So we should tell people we forgive them, but then beat our own children to death so that our righteous anger is pacified...

3. Why expect fairness from a psycho that wants blood for every offense? He's a nutter.

4. His love is like an abusive husband. He expects complete subservience, absolute obedience, and even then you aren't good enough and he will hurt you. You are expected to say "Though he slay me, yet will I trust him." (Job 13:15). Questioning him is a big no-no, just pisses him off. Quick, tell him again how freaking great he is before he starts slaughtering people.

5. If believers are born again, why don't they ever really change? Why are Christian book stores full of advice and techniques for overcoming sin? Why do Christians have to use the same methods that atheists use when they want to change behavior patterns?

 

Sounds like you figured it out.

[Overcame Faith]

Nicely written, FinallyFree, and welcome to ExC.

 

You made some excellent points. I can tell you are a very intelligent person who thinks for herself. Good for you and that is, no doubt, why you are here posting as you have. I hope you stay around and post some more. You have a good way of saying things.

[FinallyFree]

Welcome Finally Free!

 

I reckon you have summed up the problems most of us have had with Christianity.

 

Hope you have an enjoyable and uplifting time communicating with all of us on the Ex-C boards.

 

Thanks for the Welcome! I'm excited to continue my journey with the help of this community!

[FinallyFree]

Welcome! I agree with everything you said. The thing that got to me after a long time was the gay thing. If I had a son and he came home and said, mom, I'm gay, would I set him on fire and walk away saying, "Depart, I knew you not." ? Uh, no, and that would make me a bad person wouldn't it? Yet, attribute this same thing to god and he's just and loving. Bullshit! Welcome to the dark side! It's actually the bright side.

 

Thanks for the Welcome Randi! I agree whole-heartedly and I'm happy to be part of the dark side!

 

 

 

[FinallyFree]

Welcome!

1. Yep. God kills self as a sacrifice to self, to pacify his own anger.

2. God of the Bible tells us to forgive as he forgave. So we should tell people we forgive them, but then beat our own children to death so that our righteous anger is pacified...

3. Why expect fairness from a psycho that wants blood for every offense? He's a nutter.

4. His love is like an abusive husband. He expects complete subservience, absolute obedience, and even then you aren't good enough and he will hurt you. You are expected to say "Though he slay me, yet will I trust him." (Job 13:15). Questioning him is a big no-no, just pisses him off. Quick, tell him again how freaking great he is before he starts slaughtering people.

5. If believers are born again, why don't they ever really change? Why are Christian book stores full of advice and techniques for overcoming sin? Why do Christians have to use the same methods that atheists use when they want to change behavior patterns?

 

Sounds like you figured it out.

 

Thanks for the Welcome Fuego! Your feedback is great - that's really what I'm here for! Its nice to *finally* have my feelings validated!

 

 

 

[FinallyFree]

Nicely written, FinallyFree, and welcome to ExC.

 

You made some excellent points. I can tell you are a very intelligent person who thinks for herself. Good for you and that is, no doubt, why you are here posting as you have. I hope you stay around and post some more. You have a good way of saying things.

 

OF, Thank you for the Welcome and the words of encouragement. I am so glad to finally be among like-minded people!

[Guest riverrunner]

I have an eerily similar story (parents Catholic, turned to fundamentalism when I was 5 or so - watched that crazy 70s rapture movie).

 

they think practically everyone is going to hell. nice god they have there. they can't see that they talk, sing and pray only to themselves and obtain guidance only from themselves. its quite disturbing really. and they call us the blind ones and themselves free? its madness.

[Eugene39]

It's always good to hear from more people who have turned their brain back on. I also left for intellectual reasons. Welcome to Ex-C!

[FinallyFree]

I have an eerily similar story (parents Catholic, turned to fundamentalism when I was 5 or so - watched that crazy 70s rapture movie).

 

they think practically everyone is going to hell. nice god they have there. they can't see that they talk, sing and pray only to themselves and obtain guidance only from themselves. its quite disturbing really. and they call us the blind ones and themselves free? its madness.

 

 

 

Riverrunner - it is madness!! That move is insane and should seriously be rated in hopes of discouraging parents from scaring the living daylights out of their children. After seeing that movie, I wasn't being a good christian because I loved god, I was doing it out of fear because I loved myself and didn't want to suffer, or know that my loved ones would suffer... it's messed up.

 

 

[FinallyFree]

It's always good to hear from more people who have turned their brain back on. I also left for intellectual reasons. Welcome to Ex-C!

 

Thanks for the welcome Eugene! I'm looking forward to being a part of this community, rather than one filled with holy regurgitations.

[FinallyFree]

5. You Must Be Born Again - If this is the most important thing a person must do to get into heaven, why is it not mentioned in more spots in the bible? Why is the sinner's prayer, which one must pray in order to become born again, outlined in the bible? No matter how good or a person you are, if you haven't prayed that prayer - you are going to hell. According to my parents, my Grandmother is going to hell. She is catholic, and she goes to church every day. She spends most of her time reading the bible and praying for anyone who needs it. When she is not doing those things she is busy cleaning the church, visiting folks at the nursing home, and volunteering at the food pantry. Not a good candidate for hell if you ask me.

 

 

Ok... so I just had another epiphany... christianity - chew on this: Actions speak louder than words.

 

You take my Grandmother, for example - as mentioned above, she has devoted her entire live to serving the christian god, but has not said the sinners prayer and is therefore going to hell. Now consider the hundreds of thousands of Sunday morning christians who have said the sinners prayer, but continue to live their lives as though their god was not in the picture. Christianity says that person will go to heaven.

 

That's pretty warped if you ask me!

 

 

My husband and I went through a rough spell in our marriage (as everyone does) and he would say "i love you" about one hundred times a day, but he wouldn't hug or kiss me, hold my hand, etc. And I would always tell him - actions peak louder than words. If you really loved me, you'd show me, instead of paying me all this lip-service that quite honestly is getting on my nerves.

 

So... That's all I have to say about that.

[SirPhoenix]

 

Ok... so I just had another epiphany... christianity - chew on this: Actions speak louder than words.

 

You take my Grandmother, for example - as mentioned above, she has devoted her entire live to serving the christian god, but has not said the sinners prayer and is therefore going to hell. Now consider the hundreds of thousands of Sunday morning christians who have said the sinners prayer, but continue to live their lives as though their god was not in the picture. Christianity says that person will go to heaven.

 

That's pretty warped if you ask me!

 

 

Some sects of christianity would actually argue that you can loose salvation. The disparity of beliefs across christendom is one of the things that led me out of it. Some of major doctrines held by churches with oposing view points have a sound case within the framework of the bible. So if the bible is all true, why does it teach so many contradictory things? Easy, because it's not true. Men wrote the various books and each man emphasized what he wanted to. It's either that or we are all just too hard hearted to recieve the faith needed to believe. Hmmm Occam's razor anyone?

[andyjj]

The whole "sinner's prayer" thing is nonsense. Saying it will not make you a Christian - even if (for the sake of argument) the Christian faith were true, the Sinner's Prayer is a mere "placeholder" for faith. You could argue that certain Christian sects were putting there faith in "The Sinner's Prayer" rather than in Jesus and were thereby substituting 'works' for faith.

[FinallyFree]

Some sects of christianity would actually argue that you can loose salvation. The disparity of beliefs across christendom is one of the things that led me out of it. Some of major doctrines held by churches with oposing view points have a sound case within the framework of the bible. So if the bible is all true, why does it teach so many contradictory things? Easy, because it's not true. Men wrote the various books and each man emphasized what he wanted to. It's either that or we are all just too hard hearted to recieve the faith needed to believe. Hmmm Occam's razor anyone?

 

 

I had never heard of losing salvation, and that brings up another whole slew of questions that I would never get a reasonable answer for - other than I just need to trust god bull crap. I totally agree about the disparity of beliefs - and now that you bring it up, that is in a nutshell one of the major reasons I left as well.

 

 

[FinallyFree]

The whole "sinner's prayer" thing is nonsense. Saying it will not make you a Christian - even if (for the sake of argument) the Christian faith were true, the Sinner's Prayer is a mere "placeholder" for faith. You could argue that certain Christian sects were putting there faith in "The Sinner's Prayer" rather than in Jesus and were thereby substituting 'works' for faith.

 

 

I agree - it is complete nonsense, and to my knowledge it is not found in the bible anywhere - in whole or in part. Just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo.

 

 

[Eugene39]

I had never heard of losing salvation, and that brings up another whole slew of questions that I would never get a reasonable answer for - other than I just need to trust god bull crap. I totally agree about the disparity of beliefs - and now that you bring it up, that is in a nutshell one of the major reasons I left as well.

 

That belief flies under a generalized banner called "Arminianism." Some teach that unrepentant persistent sin will cause you to lose your salvation, while others are about two steps from teaching that you can sneeze wrong and lose your salvation.

[FinallyFree]

That belief flies under a generalized banner called "Arminianism." Some teach that unrepentant persistent sin will cause you to lose your salvation, while others are about two steps from teaching that you can sneeze wrong and lose your salvation.

 

That's very interesting - and warped, lol.

 

 

 

[Overcame Faith]

That belief flies under a generalized banner called "Arminianism." Some teach that unrepentant persistent sin will cause you to lose your salvation, while others are about two steps from teaching that you can sneeze wrong and lose your salvation.

 

That's very interesting - and warped, lol.

 

My Christian life was under Arminianism, specifically Weslyian doctrine. From that perspective, the view that once save always saved will, itself, doom to hell untold millions who think they can do what they want so long as they have been "saved", whatever that means. It's all warped no matter which side of the issue one takes and is, in my opinion, of the most convincing evidence that the Bible is not the word of any god.

[FinallyFree]

<br><br><br>My Christian life was under Arminianism, specifically Weslyian doctrine.  From that perspective, the view that once save always saved will, itself, doom to hell untold millions who think they can do what they want so long as they have been "saved", whatever that means.  It's all warped no matter which side of the issue one takes and is, in my opinion, of the most convincing evidence that the Bible is not the word of any god.<br>

<div><br></div><div>The bible can be translated to make it say basically anything you want...  It continues to be manipulated by "holy men of god" to ensure plenty of fear is being injected into the lives of all the good little christians.  I got sick of being told what to believe based on the pastor's translation - of should I say - based on what god told him it meant.</div><div><br></div><div>That made me think of how the pastor of the church I went to always told us about his prayer closet where he would go to read the bible and pray, and that's where god would speak to him - LOL!!!!!  Can you just picture some guy all curled up in a closet (probably in the fetal position) babbling nonsense words (or speaking in tongues as the christians call it) and hearing voices, lololol!!!!<br><br></div><div><br></div><div>...wow<br><br>

 

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