The Bad Attitudes

[agnosticator]

I don't get why everyone I know thinks the Beatitudes are earth-shattering moral gems. Maybe it's because I relate them directly to the Christian mindset they seem to come from: The Persecution Complex and the Martyrdom Complex.

I have to comment on them some, and bring attention to Jesus' other often overlooked "beatitudes" named:

 

THE BAD ATTITUDES

When Jesus gave the Sermon On The Mount, he included eight sayings that became known and touted by Christians as The Beatitudes. They are found in Matthew 5:3-10. But there are another eight sayings that are largely ignored by Christians, which I shall call The Bad Attitudes. They are found in Luke 6:20-26. Let us compare them:

 

Beatitude 1. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Bad Attitude 1. Blessed are the poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.

Poor in spirit refers to being humble, so you get to go to heaven. But being poor means God will give you His kingdom after you die. He won't do shit for you while you live!

 

Beatitude 2. Blessed are they who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

Bad Attitude 2. Blessed are you who hunger now, for you will be filled.

When will the Christian be comforted? Maybe now or maybe in heaven. Who knows? But if you are hungry, you'll have to wait a looooong time! That manna from heaven ain't comin'!

 

Beatitude 3. Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

Bad Attitude 3. Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh.

Being meek here means to be tame or mild (praus in Greek). How are we to be tame? Maybe by deferring or yielding to others? Being submissive? Obedient? It is unclear. What is clear is God leaves the Christian the earth in his Will even though he won't die. But they must die first to inherit it.

 

I don't see anything to laugh about when someone dies, as Bad Attitude #3 says. Maybe God's, mysterious way sees what's funny?

 

Beatitude 4. Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

Bad Attitude 4. Blessed are you when men hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.

I thought when Christians repent, they are covered by God's righteousness. Their own is like used tampons. So maybe they want to be righteous, but won't be right with God until they die.

Bad Attitude #4 exposes my suspicion that Christianity is masochistic yet again. A good incentive to go out and testify to those unbelievers!

 

Beatitude 5. Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.

Bad Attitude 5. Woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort.

I'm all for obtaining mercy and being merciful. But those going to hell surely will be missing out on their share. I guess when I get to hell, all the mercy I gave won't be honored. Mercy, mercy me!!

 

We have a switch in gears with Bad Attitude #5. This is a veiled threat for those rich Christians. But where does God draw the line between rich and poor? Is there a middle class allowance?

 

Beatitude 6. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

Bad Attitude 6. Woe to you who are well fed now, for you will go hungry.

Being pure in heart can mean our motives are moral, or that we are not "of the world", but are clean and righteous.

Bad Attitude #6 really pushes for us to be hungry (as in #2). Both are referring to food, not righteousness, so we are condemned for eating too much. Or are we condemned for not going hungry?

 

Beatitude 7.Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God. Bad Attitude 7. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will mourn and weep.

I'm all for Beatitude #7! But Bad Attitude #7? I think I get it now. All laughing is for heaven only. If you laugh now, God will make sure you feel bad forever. If you mourn someone's death, you'll forget all about that loved one in heaven because you'll be too busy laughing!

 

Beatitude 8. Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Bad Attitude 8. Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets.

Beatitude #8 is the same as Bad Attitude #4. Bad Attitude #8 plainly states we are not to be well respected by all, or we may be considered dead inside or just contrary. So be humble and get persecuted a.s.a.p.!

 

What have we learned from all this? Christians ignore a lot in their Bibles and are guilty of neglecting their godly duties. Just because the God of the Bible has a bad attitude, doesn't mean they shouldn't obey His commands. So get out there and embrace those complexes Christians!

[Guest Spinoza]

Yeshu just had a bad attitude about Rich People .

 

True Atheist

[oddbird1963]

I think it is self-destructive to apply the sermon on the mount / beatitudes and their rougher looking Lukan twins in a literal or legalistic fashion.

 

I think much of their content was written to assure christians, who were in the social minority, that their lifestyles are not in vain. If they realize no benefit from it in the here and now, they will be rewarded in heaven. Of course, I don't believe that is true. I see it as using a myth to motivate a beleaguered people to continue in the lifestyle they have adopted.

 

I think there is actually a truthful counter cultural message in them as well: Just because you have wealth, social standing or acceptance does not mean that who you are and what you do is necessarily good. Contrary to the tone of some of these sayings, having such things does not mean what you do or who you are is necessarily evil either.

 

It does suggest to me that all elements of our reality can be subjected to critique and correction.

 

We don't need the New testament to teach us that. But words from any religious tradition, no matter how fanciful or ungrounded, can provide a spring board for thoughts congruent to a more rational or logically based belief system.

[agnosticator]

I think it is self-destructive to apply the sermon on the mount / beatitudes and their rougher looking Lukan twins in a literal or legalistic fashion.

 

I agree. That is why I posted them. Too many Christians use them exactly that way. Maybe they will admit it to themselves.

 

I think much of their content was written to assure christians, who were in the social minority, that their lifestyles are not in vain. If they realize no benefit from it in the here and now, they will be rewarded in heaven. Of course, I don't believe that is true. I see it as using a myth to motivate a beleaguered people to continue in the lifestyle they have adopted.

 

Right. At the time, those poor people needed some way of maintaining the cult's cohesion. But they had to pay a price. Although today, very few of the sayings are useful.

[Guest barelohim]

I don't get why everyone I know thinks the Beatitudes are earth-shattering moral gems. Maybe it's because I relate them directly to the Christian mindset they seem to come from: The Persecution Complex and the Martyrdom Complex.

I have to comment on them some, and bring attention to Jesus' other often overlooked "beatitudes" named:

 

THE BAD ATTITUDES

When Jesus gave the Sermon On The Mount, he included eight sayings that became known and touted by Christians as The Beatitudes. They are found in Matthew 5:3-10. But there are another eight sayings that are largely ignored by Christians, which I shall call The Bad Attitudes. They are found in Luke 6:20-26. Let us compare them:

 

Beatitude 1. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Bad Attitude 1. Blessed are the poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.

Poor in spirit refers to being humble, so you get to go to heaven. But being poor means God will give you His kingdom after you die. He won't do shit for you while you live!

 

Hmmmm, and to think He said, the Kingdom of God is within you!"

 

Beatitude 2. Blessed are they who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

Bad Attitude 2. Blessed are you who hunger now, for you will be filled.

When will the Christian be comforted? Maybe now or maybe in heaven. Who knows? But if you are hungry, you'll have to wait a looooong time! That manna from heaven ain't comin'!

 

Hmmmm, and He also said, "If I go away, I will send the Comforter!" Which He did!

 

Beatitude 3. Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

Bad Attitude 3. Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh.

Being meek here means to be tame or mild (praus in Greek). How are we to be tame? Maybe by deferring or yielding to others? Being submissive? Obedient? It is unclear. What is clear is God leaves the Christian the earth in his Will even though he won't die. But they must die first to inherit it.

 

Hmmmm. He also stated. "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and men of violence take it by force.

 

I don't see anything to laugh about when someone dies, as Bad Attitude #3 says. Maybe God's, mysterious way sees what's funny?

 

Hmmm, and He also said, " If you die, you shall live again! Unless you lose your life, you won't gain life!" He wasn't talkin of literal death, but the death of the self life! When one is united in His death, burial, resurrection, *they*, the old natured sinner dies, and a new creation comes forth.

 

Beatitude 4. Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

Bad Attitude 4. Blessed are you when men hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.

I thought when Christians repent, they are covered by God's righteousness. Their own is like used tampons. So maybe they want to be righteous, but won't be right with God until they die.

 

Hmmm, and He said, " one is made righteous, through belief and faith in Christ.

 

Bad Attitude #4 exposes my suspicion that Christianity is masochistic yet again. A good incentive to go out and testify to those unbelievers!

 

Hmmm, He imposed the problem of sin to the flesh! He rectified that problem In Himself on the cross. He died, so the believer could die to the old selfish ways of the flesh.

 

Beatitude 5. Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.

Bad Attitude 5. Woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort.

I'm all for obtaining mercy and being merciful. But those going to hell surely will be missing out on their share. I guess when I get to hell, all the mercy I gave won't be honored. Mercy, mercy me!!

 

Hmmm, He also said, that the flesh, and the things of the flesh, accomplish nothing. All the works of the flesh are as filthy rags.. Why would a mercy coming from the fallen nature account for anything? When one manifests His mercy from His very spirit which indwells a beleiver, this is the right source of mercy!

 

We have a switch in gears with Bad Attitude #5. This is a veiled threat for those rich Christians. But where does God draw the line between rich and poor? Is there a middle class allowance?

 

Hmm, He also said, those that are healthy don't need a physician, only the sick. Neither to them having their own form of righteousness, don't need a Saviour1"

 

Beatitude 6. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

Bad Attitude 6. Woe to you who are well fed now, for you will go hungry.

Being pure in heart can mean our motives are moral, or that we are not "of the world", but are clean and righteous.

Bad Attitude #6 really pushes for us to be hungry (as in #2). Both are referring to food, not righteousness, so we are condemned for eating too much. Or are we condemned for not going hungry?

 

Hmm, He also said, that He is the bread, the manna, that one can eat, and not die. He also is the water, that one will never thirst again..

 

Beatitude 7.Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God.

Bad Attitude 7. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will mourn and weep.

I'm all for Beatitude #7! But Bad Attitude #7? I think I get it now. All laughing is for heaven only. If you laugh now, God will make sure you feel bad forever. If you mourn someone's death, you'll forget all about that loved one in heaven because you'll be too busy laughing!

 

Hmmm, and He said, And My Joy shall be in you! The mournful and weepers, and those who also will * there will be great weeping, and gnashing of teeth!"

 

Beatitude 8. Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Bad Attitude 8. Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets.

Beatitude #8 is the same as Bad Attitude #4. Bad Attitude #8 plainly states we are not to be well respected by all, or we may be considered dead inside or just contrary. So be humble and get persecuted a.s.a.p.!

 

Hmmm. Reality of #8 is plain to see, on this site.

 

What have we learned from all this? Christians ignore a lot in their Bibles and are guilty of neglecting their godly duties. Just because the God of the Bible has a bad attitude, doesn't mean they shouldn't obey His commands. So get out there and embrace those complexes Christians!

 

Hmmm, and IF you Knew Him, you would understand....." For God so loved the world, that He gave.........

 

[oddbird1963]

. . . Hmmmm . . . Hmmmm . . . Hmmmm . . . Hmmm

 

Hmmmm . I can hum too! Hmmmm Hmmmmm HmmmMmmmmm

Hmmmmm Hmmmmmmm

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

I can hum backwards!

mmmmmmmH

 

I can hum quietly!

Hmmmmmmm

 

I can hum noisily!!!

Hmmmmmm

 

But if you take all these "Hmmm's" and add what you have said, barelohim, I have still added nothing to this conversation.

 

Perhaps you can explain why quoting anything from scripture should be regarded with anything other than culural/historical significance. Why should your words or the words from scripture be any kind of authority to us?

 

What is the point of talking about god having sent a "comforter?" If we haven't had that experience it makes no difference. If we had an experience and now see it as mere subjective feelings brought about through group conditioning, then your point it moot.

 

If we knew him, then he would obviously exist. "He" does not exist, therefore the promise of understanding is empty, vain and void.

 

How is what you espouse any different from this "voiceofgod" troll? You seem to be describing a totally inward and self-insulating system of belief.

 

What can you bring to the table here other than holier than thou smug platitudes that you suppose pass for wisdom?

[Galien]

Yeshu just had a bad attitude about Rich People ™.

 

True Atheist ™

 

 

Really? I liked his attitude and I agree with it. People are greedy and it causes no end of social trouble.

[Galien]

I think there is actually a truthful counter cultural message in them as well: Just because you have wealth, social standing or acceptance does not mean that who you are and what you do is necessarily good. Contrary to the tone of some of these sayings, having such things does not mean what you do or who you are is necessarily evil either.

 

 

 

Not evil, but usually self centred, egotistical and in need of the approval of others. Not a great look in my opinion, yet most people seem to want to espouse it. Curios.

[Galien]

Hmmmm, and to think He said, the Kingdom of God is within you!"

 

 

Hmmmm, and He also said, "If I go away, I will send the Comforter!" Which He did!

 

 

Hmmmm. He also stated. "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and men of violence take it by force.

 

 

Hmmm, and He also said, " If you die, you shall live again! Unless you lose your life, you won't gain life!" He wasn't talkin of literal death, but the death of the self life! When one is united in His death, burial, resurrection, *they*, the old natured sinner dies, and a new creation comes forth.

 

 

Hmmm, and He said, " one is made righteous, through belief and faith in Christ.

 

Hmmm, He imposed the problem of sin to the flesh! He rectified that problem In Himself on the cross. He died, so the believer could die to the old selfish ways of the flesh.

 

 

Hmmm, He also said, that the flesh, and the things of the flesh, accomplish nothing. All the works of the flesh are as filthy rags.. Why would a mercy coming from the fallen nature account for anything? When one manifests His mercy from His very spirit which indwells a beleiver, this is the right source of mercy!

 

Hmm, He also said, those that are healthy don't need a physician, only the sick. Neither to them having their own form of righteousness, don't need a Saviour1"

 

 

Hmm, He also said, that He is the bread, the manna, that one can eat, and not die. He also is the water, that one will never thirst again..

 

 

Hmmm, and He said, And My Joy shall be in you! The mournful and weepers, and those who also will * there will be great weeping, and gnashing of teeth!"

 

 

Hmmm. Reality of #8 is plain to see, on this site.

 

 

Hmmm, and IF you Knew Him, you would understand....." For God so loved the world, that He gave.........

 

 

1. Maybe it is maybe it isnt.

2. "Comforter" is only of use to those skillfull at self deception and distraction. The rest of us can still see what is shitty when it is.

3. And the churches are STILL full of men of violence, the rape of the human soul they perpetrate is a complete disgrace.

4.The death of self life? Since when, churches are fill with some of the most self important people I have ever had the misfortune to meet. thirty years a christian still full of egotism and the need for approval.

5. Shame it doesn't stop one from being an asshole if that is one's natural inclination.

6.What kind of an idiotic god makes someone evil then sets about rectifying it. What a pathetic loss of human life and unnecessary drama. Certainly puts paid to a god that is apparently meant to care for us on a personal level. Sounds like god considers humans collateral damage.

7.Works of the flesh are flthy rags? WIll you believe that the next time someone feeds you from the goodness of their heart?

8. Need a saviour, from what? An evil nature I never wanted in the first place? Fantastic.

9. What does that even mean for fuck's sake? Never thirst again, what a load of complete and utter tripe. In its purest form I agree, but when one has to actually live in the world with humans its ridiculous.

10. And there was, for most of my life. My daughter actually said to my partner, when I was growing up my mother was crying more often than she wasn't. A lot of that had to do with the shitful and dismissive way christians treated my past trauma and severe depression.

 

What god has given us, if he is even there is a riduculous fucked up world run by greed and selfishness. We have some ridiculous religion which makes us cast our eyes heavenward and think of how blessed we are while lions are chewing at our legs, Personally, I think it takes some amazingly deep levels of self deception to make yourself believe things are all sunshine and roses when they are clearly not. I always thought being a christian was about telling tthe truth warts and all, now i know its is about rose coloured glasses and some pie in the sky expectation for a better life after this one.

 

What I have worked out about the bible is that it sounds great if one gets to live in a mountain cabin with jesus for the rest of their days. The world does not play by the rules set out in the bible. Anyone who tries to live by them gets chewed up and spat out, even by the organisation that claims to represent god. I have the bitemarks to prove it.

[agnosticator]

What god has given us, if he is even there is a riduculous fucked up world run by greed and selfishness. We have some ridiculous religion which makes us cast our eyes heavenward and think of how blessed we are while lions are chewing at our legs,......now i know its is about rose coloured glasses and some pie in the sky expectation for a better life after this one.

 

I think that the writers of the New Testament wanted to emulate those in power who had control over the masses. They joined the "rulers of this world" by lording it over their own. Simultaneously, they hid their agenda with rhetoric about meekness and promises of being cared for magically while here on earth. One of my favorite quotes is from Senator Roark in Sin City:

 

"Power comes from lying...Lying big and getting the whole damn world to play along with you...Once you got everybody agreeing with what they know in their hearts ain't true, you [got] them by the balls..."