Harold Kushner's "god"

[Eugene39]

For the second time in as many days, I just finished reading his book. He very effectively rips apart the belief that God is all-knowing, all-powerful and all-wise, because if He is those things and sits idly by, then He is cruel and evil, exempt from the laws of right and morality that He expects us to uphold. He maintains that God set up the laws of nature and is unable to intervene or stop the bad stuff that happens simply because of those laws of nature. He believes that random, bad stuff happens for which there is no explanation, and that God isn't trying to tell us anything when things happen. His philosophy is that God is manifested to us through the kindness of other people, help from modern medicine, science, etc.

 

Just curious if there is anyone on here, who after leaving Christianity, came to view God in this manner.

[Deva]

I read this book over 10 years ago so I can't remember it clearly, but only that when I did read it, I was tremendously disappointed. I could not see how the view put forward in this book could be satisfactory to anyone. I just remembered that he was advocating the existence of a weak god. One who really couldn't do much of anything.

[Margee]

I also read this book and I came to the same conclusion - God built the ship and left us to sail it???

 

So where is the 'father' that looks out for his children? Maybe - if we had been brought up to this definition of 'God' - we wouldn't have expected so much from 'him.'???? We might have even looked out a lot more for one another!

Harold is a nice guy though! He's trying---- -gotta give him credit for that, I guess!!

[oddbird1963]

I'm not sure where Kushner fits into the theological spectrum. I know he is a Rabbi, but I don't know how much he invests in the idea of the authority of OT Scripture.

 

That being said, the OT does not really promise as much about a personal, immediately accessible god. Much of the OT teaches negative consequences for those who disobey god and promises good things from the hand of the same god for those who obey.

 

What I don't get is a sense of where Kushner gets the basis for his belief in this toned down god of his.

 

I think if I had been indoctrinated with Kushner's version of god, I would probably have eventually given up belief due to lack of evidence. But I think the impact of that deconversion might have been less devastating.

[Antlerman]

For the second time in as many days, I just finished reading his book. He very effectively rips apart the belief that God is all-knowing, all-powerful and all-wise, because if He is those things and sits idly by, then He is cruel and evil, exempt from the laws of right and morality that He expects us to uphold.

"He", "he", "he", does thinks, doesn't do, etc. Anthropomorphic premises. Start with that, apply logic, end with conclusions about that. Does he challenge that premise itself? Does he ever try to look beyond "he", or simply redefine "he"?

 

He maintains that God set up the laws of nature and is unable to intervene or stop the bad stuff that happens simply because of those laws of nature. He believes that random, bad stuff happens for which there is no explanation, and that God isn't trying to tell us anything when things happen.

Redefining the basic anthropomorphic god, keeps it still the same, just behaving differently.

 

His philosophy is that God is manifested to us through the kindness of other people, help from modern medicine, science, etc.

Christianity/Judaism ver. 1.0.1. Still version 1.x I prefer ver. 8.x

 

Unless of course he means that the Divine exists and we manifest that in our evolving selves into That. But I suspect he means an anthropomorphic God just behaving differently than what traditional orthodoxies prescribe.

 

Just curious if there is anyone on here, who after leaving Christianity, came to view God in this manner.

I tried to find a way to reconcile reason with faith, and the only way was to transcend both. This is just an attempt, admirable as it is in its intent, to make it 'fit'. It doesn't go far enough. It needs to change the rules, not just redefine the anthropomorphic God.

[Eugene39]

I don't know how much he invests in the idea of the authority of OT Scripture.

 

What I don't get is a sense of where Kushner gets the basis for his belief in this toned down god of his.

 

My impression is that he places very little authority on OT Scripture. Most Scripture quotations are given to show how the Bible has it wrong.

 

Here's my thoughts on the book. Yes, it sounds nice but as far as a Scriptural basis for his philosophy, you MUST throw out a majority of the Bible. However, my personal findings is that anyone who views God as only loving has thrown out most of the Bible. I think he is giving God credit for our own natural instincts that try to make things better for ourselves and others, and our natural empathy we have for each other.

[Eugene39]

I am interested in persuing this further from a deist's perspective.

 

It seems logical from reading his book, that Rabbi Kushner doesn't specifically base his views on God from the Bible, since most Scripture that he quotes, is for the purpose of showing that the Bible has it wrong. As I understand them, deists believe that a Creator (God) made the universe, humankind, etc., and also gave us the ability or gift of reason. To quote myself from earlier, "I think Rabbi Kushner is giving God credit for our own natural instincts that try to make things better for ourselves and others, and our natural empathy we have for each other." So here's the big question. Could Rabbi Kushner's ideas of God be logically categorized as deist, even though he calls himself Jewish?