Unconverting a Christian?

[Checkmate]

I don't know guys, I'm not sure you can't deconvert someone by using logic.  I know what you're saying, but I think every person is different and will handle the information differently.  Many continue to believe because they want to.  But everyone is different... 

I deconverted after learning about the obvious contradictions in the bible, the dates of the NT books, the absurdity of sending everone to hell if they don't believe (including those who don't hear), and a few other logical arguments (that I discovered for myself).  More specifically it was from reading Farrell Till's Skeptical Review articles and a multitude of things at religioustolerance.org.

So it was logic and reason that made me give it up.  I didn't want to, nor was I looking for something deeper or different.  I just learned the truth.  I don't see why that won't work on some other people-- at least the brighter ones. 

I think at least it plants seeds of reason.

Well, Kryten maybe YOU were not a "True Christian™"!

 

 

 

 

 

[Aaaarrrgggghhhhhh! JUST KIDDING, Kryten! PUT DOWN THAT AXE!!!! ]

 

Ah, yes. It's fun to fool around.

I understand your point, though. While I won't dogmatically state that it is IMPOSSIBLE to convert using logic, I stand by my assertion that it is the RARE Christian who will yield to logic alone. You, apparently, were such a one. Logic AND honesty won the day.

[Ouroboros]

I think conversion and deconversion is a mix. The reason why you Kryten could deconvert using logic and reason only, is that you are basically of the personality type that works primarely out of logic and reason. So emotions was never a big part of your decision from the start, and emotions was therefore never a hindrance for you to argue your way out of it.

 

Me, personally, I'm an emotional person, and not until the feelings were out of the way could I use the logic and rational arguments. They weren't important until the emotional part was gone.

 

So in the end, it's a mix, and it depends on the person how their minds work.

[Kryten]

Well, Kryten maybe YOU were not a "True Christian"!

[Aaaarrrgggghhhhhh!  JUST KIDDING, Kryten!  PUT DOWN THAT AXE!!!!  ]

 

Ah, yes.  It's fun to fool around.

 

I understand your point, though.  While I won't dogmatically state that it is IMPOSSIBLE to convert using logic, I stand by my assertion that it is the RARE Christian who will yield to logic alone.  You, apparently, were such a one.  Logic AND honesty won the day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have many weapons at my disposal, but the axe is not among them. Fear not-- I would never use one on you. After all, you will save Christmas for Whoville. I have foreseen it.

 

Han,

True that homie! But my apparent lack of emotion should not be equated with a complete lack of emotion. I just hide or control it better than most-- and indeed it was not part of why I believed in the first place.

[Mythra]

If you knew the guy well enough, your best bet would be to just have an honest conversation with him. But if he isn't a good friend, he won't open up.

 

Every christian has misgivings about something or other. Prayers that go poof in mid-air. Struggles with sin. Contradictions in the bible. Hell and eternal suffering. God's temper tantrums in the OT.

 

Something.

 

If you could find out what he struggles with, and then just have an honest conversation, that would be your best bet.

 

But, if he's there to evangelize, guaranteed all you are going to get is the party line. And your arguments will be like trying to mix some motor oil into a bucket of water.

[Checkmate]

I have many weapons at my disposal, but the axe is not among them.  Fear not-- I would never use one on you.  After all, you will save Christmas for Whoville.  I have foreseen it.

...............

ME?!?! Save X-mas!?!?!? Noooooooooo!!!!!!!

 

Kryten, that's cruel, bud. Real cruel.

 

Fuck. It IS October, isn't it? That fucking DAY is just around the corner. Blech! (And I don't mean Halloween. That OTHER fucking day. Shiver!)

 

I MUST stop X-mas from coming! But how?

[GiantBear]

Hey everybody,

 

He came over. We watched the 4th quarter of the Pistons pre-season game.

 

Then we hit the old internet and browsed thru some Christian, Anti-Christian and Jewish sites. Talking along the way. It all went down wonderful. It wasn't anywhere near a comprehensive debate. But we had some fun. And when he left he was thinking of examining the Messiah text from Micah more, because it was unresolved for him.

 

Maybe he benefited from a few other snippets too. I don't know. But I'm glad that it happened. Thanks for your comments.

 

Peace,

GiantBear

[Ouroboros]

Cool GB, I think that's the best way. Easy does it. Wake up his mind, and make him think. Make him use the noodles and break free from the bondage of zombie-ism.

[HadouKen24]

Please, let's not put too much pressure on Christians to deconvert.

 

One of the things I absolutely hate about the Christian church is the way it applies peer pressure to try to force people to change their beliefs. Of course, it's called "witnessing" so it sounds nice, but it's really just trying to get people to convert the same way kids convince each other to drink that nasty concoction of five different foods and pepsi.

 

Let people decide for themselves what to believe. Discuss things, sure. Disagree, certainly. And there's nothing I like more than a friendly debate. But there's a line that ought not be crossed. External coercion is NOT something to bring to bear on someone's personal, most deeply held beliefs.

 

I think your approach is excellent, GB.

[Lanakila]

I used to debate against atheists all the time as a fundy before deconversion. It wasn't really anything they said, or any individuals said that led me down the path towards deconversion though. But, I did realize that atheists are just people that don't believe. Some are jerks and some are not, but I stopped equating them with Satan. My own arguments is what eventually led to my deconversion. Using the Bible to prove the resurrection for example is entirely circular, but it took my trying to do that myself to realize it.

[SkepticOfBible]

I deconverted after learning about the obvious contradictions in the bible, the dates of the NT books, the absurdity of sending everone to hell if they don't believe (including those who don't hear), and a few other logical arguments (that I discovered for myself).  More specifically it was from reading Farrell Till's Skeptical Review articles and a multitude of things at religioustolerance.org.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Although I never joined the fold, I was confronted by a lot of fundies when I moved here.

 

I think the site which did it for was Agnostic Review of Christianity

 

Concise, to the point contradiction of OT to NT, and it was all biblical based(since christians loved scriptures)

 

Also I think the history of the NT canon literally canonballs the claim "Oh Christianity is god made, while others are man made"

[Amethyst]

What did it for me was looking up church history, as well as different pagan myths, and seeing all the similarities and putting it together. But the debating helped me gain the courage to look, because if I had not questioned for a moment, I would probably still be brainwashed.