dB-Paradox Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I'm cautious about this, because I know that hardcore fundies are on a mission. Their vision is narrow, and they have one plan in mind...to convert people to their faith. But lately, I've been talking with the pastor at my wife's church and he seems to be quite tolerant and open-minded about the things I'm saying. In fact, he even went as far as saying that open-mindedness creates opportunities for connectedness, and he's a fundie! He also said in regards to us, and I quote, "I think there's a friendship developing here". I find him an easy person to talk with, and never feel he's trying to convert me, but he does like to point out why he believes. I'm also allowed fair time to explain why I don't believe. We can laugh, and things are extremely civil. It's quite refreshing actually, since I'm surrounded by intolerant, closed-minded family. Does anyone else here have contact with Christian pastors, missionaries, or otherwise hardcore believers in this way? Does this at all sound suspicious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MultifariousBirdLady Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Hi dB-Paradox, Depends on what exactly you mean by "hardcore." Several years after deconverting I ended up having a series of very helpful discussions with an Episcopalian rector who was leading a local church. Was he "hardcore" in the sense of being fully committed to his faith and faith community? Absolutely. Was he "hardcore" as in "fundamentalist" in his theological views? Not at all. The interaction I had with him was one of the things that really helped me towards healing the anger I still held towards Christianity and Christians due to the hurt and confusion I had experienced as a fundie. Now, in my view of things, there were other spiritual things coming into play which were part of this situation, but the interaction with him was one of the really important factors. He helped me to see that not all Christians "do Christianity" the way I had learned to do it myself. I was open with him about being Wiccan and he was fine with that and together we found certain things in common between these faiths. I was open with him about my fundamentalist background and hurt and he was able to listen and show me how -- from his Christian perspective -- he could agree that some of the things I had learned were really problematic. We did not agree on everything, of course, but it was great to talk to someone who was both knowledgeable on these subjects and compassionate enough to listen but let me find my own way. I will never forget that. I can't guess of course whether you might have an experience like this with the person you're talking to. There are some Christians (whether pastors or not) whose goal is ultimately to "convert the lost" with honey instead of vinegar so to speak. Time will tell whether this guy has some kind of agenda like that or not with you. I don't think it's odd to form friendships like this or continue dialogue with the guy, though. Best wishes, I hope it's a good experience for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I would say to judge his actions the way you would any other individual with whom you are developing a friendship. My general view of a friend is not someone who necessarily agrees with me, but one who is willing to set differences aside to get to know me and who allows me to get to know him/her. But in my mind, the true friendship is not developed until I open up and they open up so we both can determine if each like the real other. Having said that, I know a lot of pastors and hardcore christians. Some pastors are very good at sounding open, but rarely will they really open up even with other christians because they must maintain a certain distance so they appear to be holy and righteous. It's sort of like the captain of a Navy vessel. It is often said that the captain is the loneliest person on the ship and for good reason. The captain must be aloof to a large degree to maintain the respect needed to command a vessel. The phrase "familiarity breeds contempt" is what Navy captains live by. Pastors can be like this. Many only open up so much themselves, but encourage you to open up with them as a way to gain your trust for their ultimate goal of converting you. And that is, after all, the life calling of many pastors, especially the more evangelical variety. If it weren't, they generally wouldn't be pastors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene39 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I can certainly understand your skepticism, having just quit church attendance myself (Dec. 26th was my last day). My pastor called to talk to me about it the next Tuesday night. I told him that it had all started around 3 years ago, how I'd fought it, etc., but came to the conclusion that there was no way Jesus could have been the Messiah. He was quite honest with me and agreed that the OT prophecies don't mesh up well with what the NT says, which shocked me. Although he's a fundamentalist, there's been more than once that my jaw hit the floor during his preaching, because he doesn't seem to be as "black and white" as almost all of them that I've been around. So yes, they exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 On the one hand, it's probably a relief for your potential friend to have social contacts and support outside of the suffocating confines of his church where he has to watch every word he says for social expediency and political survival. It's really healthy to have friendships from a wide variety of circles. That being said, every position you take on religion or politics may find it's way into a sermon illustration and he might get realism and credibility points with his congregants for having an unbelieving friend he is "softening up" for winning to Christ. And your version of your beliefs and arguments may not be the actual version that ends up in his sermons where he will always come out on top with the wise point of view. As with any friendship that may or may not be developing, you just have to take it day by day. Protect your vulnerable parts (emotionally, of course) and be prepared to have to reclassify and condition your relationship at some time in the future. Friendship with anybody can take ugly turns, starts and stops and be terminated at a moment's notice. I think this is especially true in the case of an evangelical pastor who has this overarching mandate to win souls. It raises the question, at any point, about how genuine a friendship with a "lost soul" can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted January 8, 2011 Super Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2011 Odds are against a real relationship of equals, but it is possible. Perhaps you know that James Randi (atheist) is very good friends with a Catholic priest (obviously not a fundy). They are both magicians, and that seems to be enough. Good luck in the lion's den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flockoff Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Odds are against a real relationship of equals, but it is possible. Perhaps you know that James Randi (atheist) is very good friends with a Catholic priest (obviously not a fundy). Or that Larry Flynt became friends with Jerry Falwell, for that matter. It's entirely possible that he wants to befriend you out of normal social interests and leave the "Christian fellowship" elsewhere. Just be prepared if he doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptd006 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 ... Does anyone else here have contact with Christian pastors, missionaries, or otherwise hardcore believers in this way? Does this at all sound suspicious? Sounds like my younger brother in law. We have common interests and get on well. He acknowledges contradictions in the bible, admits his reservations, seems honest and non-judgemental. I like him. I don't find him suspicious, just a little naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklady Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 The thing is you never know if some one is also struggling with their belief. The pastor may have some doubts and concerns, and hes interested in what you have to say. Or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest riverrunner Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 don't worry about it they do exist. belief is a spectrum not binary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dB-Paradox Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 The thing is you never know if some one is also struggling with their belief. The pastor may have some doubts and concerns, and hes interested in what you have to say. Or not. I've actually asked him with the most sincerity, if he really believes. He confirmed he did. But it still makes me wonder. After all, this is his bread and butter. Admitting he doesn't really believe could end his career. I wouldn't say anything, but admit it out loud and you never know.... But then again, he may just be a tolerant fundie. Ooooo, those are two words that don't fit together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 a friend is a friend is a friend. friends respect mutually, have boundaries, have no-go areas, have mutual interests. not everyone has ulterior motives. just a friend, no more, no less pastor is just a vocation or "calling". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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