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Enhancing My Mind Through Discussion


Shadowbound
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I have started this thread in hopes to get varying opinons directly related to my story, but will also branch off into other learning paths for myself and others that choose to read and participate in this topic. Maybe only this one post will happen and no one chooses to reply, but maybe, i will be conversing on this thread for some time. Either way, thank you so much ex-c.net for giving me a place to express religious discussion and my confusion with it. I put this into the Lions Den, because I feel both sides are needed for an argument to take place. By argument I mean discussion which may or may not have any animosity.

 

So I decided recently a few months back to give up religion as a whole, not neceassrily to give up the thought of a god. I chose to look into my ancestries beliefs, (Celtic) because without Xtians tyranting through the countyside,slaying my ancestors for loving the land and just being flat out heretics, my ancestors religions may still be major contenders in this world. (To argue Paganism is still prominent and what i am reffering to is fruitless with me due to the fact paganism is an umbrella term used to cover most religions that deal with earth, animals, magicka, and voodoo, thus not one religion, and not major contenders.) Such a dumb ass word heretic. For those that do not know or are too lazy to type define heretic into the search bar, it basically means someone who as an altering belief from the mass opinon on the topic at hand. My ancestors case happened to be a new god that was invented by xtians, and pushed on many people throughout the world. Woot for crusades, a perfect example of why xtians are far from perfect, no sin/curse needed for that one. I get so very agitated, nah straight up enraged when I start to talk of the crusades and all you forgiven rapists and murderers it makes me sick. So sick in fact I have to end this portion of my discussion.

 

Back on point. I chose to give up christianity due to an increasing understanding of the bible and how it simply cannot be accurate. I cannot get past that it was written by men. And thus screwed up by men. And to add one more I feel may be appropriate, thus faked by men in order to control a population of uneducated (not dumb) people. Now that is not to say uneducated people believe in christ as thier savior, quite the contrary, however it is safe to say people who believ in christ as thier savior choose to be uneducated in the possibility thier god and all those stories are fictional, and just a mass population control mechanism to keep you doing what the government needs to keep some sort of stability in the region.

 

So I am caught in a bind, I found this site last night after praying to god for an answer to why none of the xtian religions get along and hate each other, even though the bible is supposedly teaching to love one another. I find this religion very incapable of preaching honesty if they cannot be honest with themselves even. I mean, maybe my barbarian kin were zealous in the art of war, zealous in the arts of magicka, zealous in thigs we today find to be atrocities, but atleast we all know it. It is not some illusion hidden in the sands of time from those that do not study. Every videogame you play (fantasy style) has a barbarian brute, a berserker coated in woad with a blood thirst, yet all the priests are holy and do healing and blah blah blah. If they made it truthful, these holy personas would go running after the barbarians children (CHILDREN) and culling them, as well as impregnating their women through rape. CONVERT OR DIE.....nowadays its convert or go to hell! Video games are the only place these noble warriors find solace in todays society, shame its back asswards, that is why I bring them up.

 

Why is it that through prayer I find a site that compells me to give up that last hope of a creator, the last hope of life after death, and yet no site stating this is why god is real?

 

Why is it that I find a pamphlet on the world coming to and end 2011? hat happened to 2012? Xtians not patient enough or something?

 

Why is it that you as xtians want the rapture to come, so that you can be with god for eternity, while the rest of the population suffers horribly for five months "like a scorpions sting" just to be thrown into hell to suffer for eternity? WHAT? Did you read what I just wrote? Your loving god will punish and torture those that do not believe for months before even sending us to your hell! You all are selfish f*cks! Hope you all enjoy hell and torture while we lay by the pool? You are traitors to your own species. This god you made up is not human, but sure as hell resembles one. Why is that?

 

Why is it when I go to bed last night, I pray and pray going to bed with some faith left, not in your damn religion mind you, but god......just to wake up and write this? I even cried a little, and I am a big boy now, no need for tears. Why is your loving, forgiving, ever present, lord in heaven, never there to help. And before you jump on that one little horse you have to ride, I am not reffering to this petty bs of lastnight, but all the starving people, the women hostages being beaten and raped on a daily basis. The homeless (not that your god invented homes) who sleep in the streets in the dead of winter, some i am sure stuck in a damn puddle because the rest of the under pass is covered in piss and feces. I am making a point not a fact in the last example. And if you think these are evn remotely bad, I could not even describe the personal torment people recieve daily from their peers that causes nothing but hatred and insecurities in themselves.

 

WOW I really really really want to be xtian again, so that I dont have ot think of any of this, and just be concerned for my own well being, and if I am going to heaven.

 

I once asked a witness how he could go to heaven knowing that his brother was in hell (it was metaphorical as he had no brother) and his reply was simple. I don't need to say what it was, because if you are good xtian you already know his answer, but ill tell you mine. "I have chosen not to believe in this religion anymore if that is how it will be. I would rather go to hell with my brother than to heaven with your father. Take care my wife and I will not be studying anymore." I asked him and his wife as they were "friends" of ours, to keep coming over for dinner, and we enjoyed their company. Almost 7-8 months now, not a phone call. You xtians may need to DEFINE FRIEND in your google bar, insert the definition into one of your pastors sermons, and suprise the hell out of your church when something meaningful was actually said to the masses. Amen

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I really feel for you. It seems we call have these 'deconversion' pains, and a lot of us lose friends or family during the process. it sucks.

 

Why is it that through prayer I find a site that compells me to give up that last hope of a creator, the last hope of life after death, and yet no site stating this is why god is real?

 

After I'd prayed for months for a greater understanding and closeness to God, I felt I should actually read the Bible through to help me gain understanding. But reading the Bible and studying to try to understand it was what started me on the path that lead to Atheism. Ironic, huh?

 

Hang in there. Things do get better.

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Nice to meet you shadowbound. Somewere in your post you hit the nail on the head. The whole problem is dishonesty. I was a christian for 36 years. I could care less about science, or who wrote the bible or why. 36 years of watching christians practice a religion while having no concept of personal honesty made me want to puke. There were the rare ones like myself who could see the emporer was buck naked, but most people preferred to jump on the badwagon and say he looked shit hot.

 

I always made the mistake of thinking people were christians because they loved god like I did. But really they were mostly there to belong to a social club that boosted their dishonesty. Our whole culture is like it, we are encouraged to lie to ourselves and others in large and small ways from the time they are born. Hit a person with anything they perceive as criticism and they usually react with denial and blame. How often so you hear a person say, yes I did that it was wrong and I'm sorry?

 

I expected christians to be different, to WANT to be totally honest and different from the rest of the world but they are not. For me that was the essence of the thing, to be as honest as I possibly could be, but everyone thought I was being stupid. I sat back and took a long hard look at what my life was. I had spent decades of my life trusting in and praying to a god that had given me no comfort from my soul crushing depression, deprived myself of sex (comfort) trying to be obedient, and become a babbling mess of neurosis trying to be perfect I came to the conclusion I had been talking to myself and making myself crazy and sad, so I stopped.

 

If there is a god he knows what is in my heart, and I am happy with what is in it. If there isn't, makes no difference anyway. My job here is to treat people well and live the best life I can. An honest one.

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Thank you for the reply, it is most encouraging to know that even after my incredibly long post, someone out there chose to listen. I look forward to more feedback from other's even if it is not as pleasant as your's is.

 

BTW I had no idea I had typed that much, I will work on shorter versions of what I have to say. =)

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You are obviously in a lot of pain. Losing one's faith can be terribly difficult. It was for me and for many others. Many on this site will verify the fact that the pain fades a little each day and with more understanding of what happened to you. It will get better for you, too.

 

While I have nothing but seething hatred for the Christian religion, I don't feel that way toward the true believing Christians. I view them as victims as I once was.

 

Best to you and welcome to ExC. You're among friends here.

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Nice to meet you shadowbound. Somewere in your post you hit the nail on the head. The whole problem is dishonesty. I was a christian for 36 years. I could care less about science, or who wrote the bible or why. 36 years of watching christians practice a religion while having no concept of personal honesty made me want to puke. There were the rare ones like myself who could see the emporer was buck naked, but most people preferred to jump on the badwagon and say he looked shit hot.

 

I always made the mistake of thinking people were christians because they loved god like I did. But really they were mostly there to belong to a social club that boosted their dishonesty. Our whole culture is like it, we are encouraged to lie to ourselves and others in large and small ways from the time they are born. Hit a person with anything they perceive as criticism and they usually react with denial and blame. How often so you hear a person say, yes I did that it was wrong and I'm sorry?

 

I expected christians to be different, to WANT to be totally honest and different from the rest of the world but they are not. For me that was the essence of the thing, to be as honest as I possibly could be, but everyone thought I was being stupid. I sat back and took a long hard look at what my life was. I had spent decades of my life trusting in and praying to a god that had given me no comfort from my soul crushing depression, deprived myself of sex (comfort) trying to be obedient, and become a babbling mess of neurosis trying to be perfect I came to the conclusion I had been talking to myself and making myself crazy and sad, so I stopped.

 

If there is a god he knows what is in my heart, and I am happy with what is in it. If there isn't, makes no difference anyway. My job here is to treat people well and live the best life I can. An honest one.

 

Your last statement I will hold dear to my heart as I feel the same way. It pains me to hear/read these type of posts. I grew up thinking that the one true way of life and the only really genuine good people were xtians/religious, and when I hear these things and reflect to my own experience it makes only so much sense.

 

To watch the one set of christians in my family (aunt and uncle) become total outcasts who choose not to associate with us anymore. They live in their little box and share no love for the family. I find it quite humorous that my uncle was apparently being abusive behind the scenes for many years, my aunt left for a month, then a preacher sat with them and told them it was family that had been holding them back and that they needed more time in the church. (The amount of profanity going through my brain right now is horrendus and I will leave it to you to make up your version.) In thier church the woman is completely subserviant to the husband and......well something along those lines, I wont go into detail as I do not have them. This kind of crap makes me sick, I should be beating the hell out of that man right now, just as I did my father after so many years of his abuse, shame what alchohol does to people. Yet I do not. I just sit back and wonder what it is they chose not to love us for anymore.

 

I also find it humorous that after 28 long and short years in this world I still find myself talking and feeling like a child in this topic, go figure I suppose. But not is all to waste, thier crappy marriage and attitudes showed me that even xtians suck at life, all the previous horrid things I brought up show me that god sucks at life, and all my failures and experiences have shown me I suck at life. Yet even with all that sucking I sit back at this wonderful invention and chit chat it out with people who seem to care a lil atleast, while my beautiful daughter sleeps upstairs, wife at work and the whole world going about thier business as usual. This whole time I smile, because as I start to release the shackles of my emotions for the grips of the ficticious, I realise, I have it great!

 

I would like to share something with you all. It may or may not amuse you. I play video games, addictively. (Seriously it's a horrid sickness lol) My name is Shadowbound and I developed that name is serious thought one day while taking my breath of cancer. I realised that if there is heaven and god, and that is the light, that I must be in shadow. Bound to them with no ability to escape besides death, too which may only be darkness or shadow. Thus I am Shadowbound, in life and death......so is my freedom. I have yet to write this poem out compltely but use it as a signature, and one day maybe I will turn it into something really special. For now I will change it to the plural form, just keep in mind my last few sentences.

 

A light follows, from where we cannot see

 

In the shadows we are bound,

 

In the shadows we are free.

 

And so it is I will stay in my shadows, void of the light, a light that may be ficticious, but so ficticious it brings real pain. I hope you all enjoy the shadows as well, since the light aint no picnic. =)

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Hard to keep up with the replies that happen while I am typing, thank you for the post. Indeed, this may just be a place full of friends.

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When I deconverted, it was AGONY! Mental agony! One half my brain said, run away from religion and another part kept trying to convince me there was something wrong with me for my lack of faith. What helped me over the rough spots was the book by Charles Templeton, Farewell to God. I found peace and accepted the fact it was OK not to believe. We believe what we believe about religion because we are TAUGHT to believe a certain way about god. If god were real, it would take no training to believe. Churches have class after class on what to believe and how to believe it. Then if we still need help in training there are hundreds of books, each one explaining that writer's belief on how to believe and interpret scripture and in the end I found it just damn dumb to continue. I feel that I am a better person for leaving christianity behind. It is not wrong to believe in god, any kind of god. People use crutches when crippled. The stronger a person is, the less they need crutches. This is noticeable even with those who use drugs and alcohol to get by in life. What is wrong, is to use that crutch as a weapon to force others to believe the same thing. Spirituality is a personal pursuit of the unknown, primarily of what happens when we die. All I know is, religion just ain't got the answer to the problems of the world. Forcing people to believe in an invisible sky fairy only results in accumulating enemies because religion calls everyone who does not believe, a liar. 'You lie when you tell others there is no god!' Religion is the result of one's inability to accept reality and religion is what results when science lowers its standards.

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Deconversion can be rough Shadowbound. I feel for you. I thought what you said about your name was really poetic. However,happiness belongs in this lifetime right next to the pain. It is not one or the other. It is both. Don't worry you will find your way to a better place.

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Thank you both for your input. I like to give everyone feedback and acknowledgement when they specifically talk to me on any forum. However; just a "Thank you and agreed" only takes a topic so far, I will be talking of this agony you mentioned though. Last poster do not feel as though I did not appreciate your input. With that said I bring a new post....

 

So when I wrote this originally, I just began writing, with no regard for how it may be percieved. Anger, sadness, mental agony.....happiness. They all seem to fit. As I sit here this morning with my cup of coffee, reading the emotions, opinons and advice you all have chosen to share with me so far, I can't help but think back to lastnight. I thought, " How can I be putting these doubts into public eye, I never took the initiative to post anything about my faith and yet I post and discuss my lack there of. I thought, "God and Jesus may be real, what if I am completely screwing this up, somehow some way letting this satan (which I doubt that its one true mission, is to screw with us) take control."

 

Fear, is that what my issue is? What about the thought of nothingness after life, is that it? I found myself saying, if I could just have my memories, after I die, I would have a happy death.....

 

WHAT!!! Who the hell am I talking about, a cold hearted bastard, who can't keep a curse word out of his mouth to save his life, who's only saving grace when it does come to the english language, is the ability to somehow write well. Yet here I am boo damn whooing, to the stars in the sky (figuratively) about my pesky little life which has no real impact on the life cycles of the planet. Why the hell is that we as individual humans, think this world revolves around us...like we are important or something. (Mind you I am referencing toward a generality, so please if you don't feel this way, just see it for what I mean.) It seems as though we have decided, as a species, we are the only ones in this universe...God made it for us...nothing else can be existing in all the UNIVERSE. Spoiled little snotty nosed children is what "I" am. "I" am. "I" am the human race.

 

Yet here we are, thank you little space ship, for showing us the light.......more little planets, habitable, (spelling there?) earthly even? Hmmm, but the bible says, but the bible says, hmmmm..... did this God start over? Oh maybe these other planets are where he magically teleports us too during the rapture....ahh heaven, my saving grace.

 

NO! These are just more planets, habitable planets, that may sustain life......UH OH xtians....."Modern science entering the last turn, oooh and he passes christianity on the inside, it may be over"..... awww man honey I was watching that! Dang women, always turning off my TV. Oh well.

 

What what what, yes that's right a possibility, of life besides us.....how unfathomable. And yet just one more huge beacon, glowing in the distance, as to why I should not backtrack in my journey to find an everlasting hope without the need of a primal god. Without the need for fear, scrutiny, and persecution......just to be.

 

Mental agony.......just maybe.

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Par4dcourse, thank you for what I took as a compliment about my writing. I do plan to stick around, this site has given me something I have long needed......a comfortable place to share my fears, thoughts, and strong minded opinions. While I may not be right, I may not be wrong either. =) (wierd how this dang smiley follows me everywhere I type...stalker) Anyway thank you.

 

So I had to make an abrupt stop earlier to the clock telling me "time for the dentist, move along now." Yet as I looked upon my writing one last time before clicking post, I was quite satisfied with the closing. Heck, thought maybe I will just leave it like that, no further entry, though I had more to say. If you haven't gathered thus far, I do not just leave anything and I NEVER, run out of things to say. And with this in mind, I continue what is going to become.....whatever it becomes. Writing from the hip is so very nice....rewarding even to look back, and realise that you never knew you felt that way.

 

I started this here, in the Lion's Den for the simple purpose as I stated above. I realise, maybe many xtians do not frequent here, or if they do, just do some drive anonymous posting to make themselves feel as though they did their part in trying to save a heathen. MarcAHarris in the topic "Ten Questions for Christians" (right along those lines) was a very good sport. In fact, I found his original post to be.....quite entertaining and honestly caring. That is until he got a verbal ass whoopin in the art of spirituality from some of the other (very intelligent, I might add) members of this fine site. His second post, though a bit frazzled, showed him to be earnestly trying to succeed at his mission. Shortly there after it was all down hill, an insult about how the site is "full of bugs" and "fix your site" seemed to be his only real input. Then a post about talking to family members, friends, and fellow church goers about how to properly respond. This brings me now to a point of interest...

 

Why must you (xtians) go to a support group to find a way to defend your "faith"? Could you simply not take a look at was written, realise it makes some sense and the people may actually know a thing or two also, as well as be a dead set in thier form of faith as you are? Must you come back with a load of BS, to try and prove your fable, when someone clearly has you out gunned with factual arguments, instead of faith based ones?

 

If I did not feel I knew enough about a subject to comment, take a lil harrasment, and keep firing away, then frankly, I would just keep my trap shut...and in some cases, respectfully withdraw from a conversation due to the nature of the topic, if I thought it may no longer be about advice and simply there to disagree. I find it all too convieniant how someone who can answer with all the knowledge in the world, ten questions regarding god, prayer, and the like, but a simple rubuttal will send them into a whirlwind of confusion and second guessing.

 

Why is this? This is what you devote your life too, right?

 

Cause if not.....sorry to say but your going to your hell. The witnesses believe that those who are raptured will come back during the times of judgement to teach about the bible and the Lord to those souls who did not have a chance to learn it before.....wait a minute. Isn't all creation supposed to know Jesus Christ and be preached the gospel before the end of days can begin anyway? (Just a thought. Info on this would be appreciated) This was atleast the way it was told to me by a witness I had teaching me at one point.

 

So this will conclude my daily writings to myself and to you (the reader), for the simple purpose of strengthening my lack of faith, maybe even yours. I think I will close with the point I am trying to make. Here I am, in a little thread, trying to distinguish what's right and wrong. With responses from other's, that spawn new ideas and ways of thought. Whether or not the post is about their experience, the fact they enjoyed my writing (i think), or simply to say welcome to the site. Yet none of these replies as of yet, have been by xtians. Does this mean I am on the right track, that those drive byers, take a gander and choose not to post in retort to my aggresive nature and form of writing? Maybe it's the title Lion's Den that scares them away, even though an angel is believed (by some) to save a christian from lion's wrath. I wonder. All I can say is that, if god is real and he loves us all and wants us to be saved, then where are his henchman to tell me I am wrong?

 

Is someone going to tell me I am wrong? Anyone? Probably not. Unless of course it is someone telling me to stop using this forum like a damn diary! =) (and there's the little guy again)

 

Take care all and thanks for taking some time out of your day to read these little rants.

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portion of my discussion.

 

Back on point. I chose to give up christianity due to an increasing understanding of the bible and how it simply cannot be accurate. I cannot get past that it was written by men. And thus screwed up by men. And to add one more I feel may be appropriate, thus faked by men in order to control a population of uneducated (not dumb) people. Now that is not to say uneducated people believe in christ as thier savior, quite the contrary, however it is safe to say people who believ in christ as thier savior choose to be uneducated in the possibility thier god and all those stories are fictional, and just a mass population control mechanism to keep you doing what the government needs to keep some sort of stability in the region.

 

 

I like it that you chose to give up Christianity due to an increasing understanding of the bible! Classic statement!

 

Religion is always about control, Christianity was designed by the Romans for total control and they did it well.

 

I think believers don't want to know of the possibility that their belief could be wrong. It keeps them safe and secure. The truth could make them feel very unsafe out in the World with no one looking down on them, taking care of them.

 

Let's not shatter their illusion!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Why is it that through prayer I find a site that compells me to give up that last hope of a creator, the last hope of life after death, and yet no site stating this is why god is real?

 

 

 

Hey, I loved your post. Read the whole thing, the ending especially was poignant. I just want you to know that I am glad that you are here, however you found the site.

 

But I don't really think you found it through prayer. I wanted to address that idea, just in case it is a parasite. You know, "I prayed and God brought me here".

 

For what it is worth, you prayed. You were focused on these thoughts. Then you sat at the computer, entered key words..and Google brought you here.

If you got here through prayer, I would think you prayed and then the computer mysteriously displayed the webpage (What I didn't even click anything!....I entered my email address and ended up HERE?)

 

Anyway, I don't know if I read too much into the statement, but you sound rather free and there is no reason to carry your chains around, once cut. ;)

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