Not_Scarevangelist Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I was talking with some ex-Christians about what I call "Positive Faith". What is this "Positive Faith"? Simply put, it's like Christianity as it had to be - a positive proclaim of love, without fear of hell, without fear of damnation, without fear of God's wrath. It's just the faith in a deity, as it's portrayed in my heart. Heart that contradicts the harsh and unjust teachings in the bible. The "Positive faith" represents my need to believe in the ultimate Good, the ultimate Love, the ultimate Divinity, the ultimate Higher power that cares for me. You want to find your positive faith? Look into your hearts... I don't know what you think about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Isn't this a bit like polishing a turd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 Isn't this a bit like polishing a turd. No, because it's not based on the Bible or any other ancient book. It's based on emotions, feelings and rationale 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Go with it dude, don't let anyone else tell you what to believe. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Methoxy Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Simply put, it's like Christianity as it had to be - a positive proclaim of love, without fear of hell, without fear of damnation, without fear of God's wrath. Sounds like Unitarian Universalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanta Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I was talking with some ex-Christians about what I call "Positive Faith". What is this "Positive Faith"? Simply put, it's like Christianity as it had to be - a positive proclaim of love, without fear of hell, without fear of damnation, without fear of God's wrath. It's just the faith in a deity, as it's portrayed in my heart. Heart that contradicts the harsh and unjust teachings in the bible. The "Positive faith" represents my need to believe in the ultimate Good, the ultimate Love, the ultimate Divinity, the ultimate Higher power that cares for me. You want to find your positive faith? Look into your hearts... I don't know what you think about this. Do you mean you're looking to fulfill yourself what is in your nature to look for outward? (i.e. to "God") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 Hm... I don't think I understand the meaning of your question, Phanta! Sounds like Unitarian Universalism. This may be possible! In the beginning I believed what the church taught me. Then I converted to Christian (Biblical) Universalism, but I went with questioning much further... I may have reached the Unitarian Unviersalism, but I'm not sure - I don't know what these people believe in. I've only heard that there are many Christian Universalists who become unitarians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Methoxy Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 It might be worth it for you to check out a Unitarian Church. It sounds like you are arriving to the same place the Uni's I've known are at. They're pretty mellow, easy going people who don't believe in Hell and don't believe in living your life according to a strict dogma or through fundamentalist teachings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 Heh, this may be a good suggestion after all. Ex-Christian.NET is a great resource what to do after breaking up with dogmatic Christianity. I browsed some websites about U.Us... However the term "church" is scaring me. I've been outside church for years already... and I don't think I wish to attend something like that anymore in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanta Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Hm... I don't think I understand the meaning of your question, Phanta! It sounded like you internalized your God ideal, manifesting your deity from your own heart. No? Is your source internal or external? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 I think you got it correct. My source is internal. From my own heart. Looking forward towards a good and positive spirituality, that will make me happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanta Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I think you got it correct. My source is internal. From my own heart. Looking forward towards a good and positive spirituality, that will make me happy. What renews you? I find I need to be filled up again from time to time, in order to give out love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 I personally feel emptied right now... And yes, I want to be filled again. I want to give love! I want to be happy... I want to be positive. I want so many things... This is what fills me now... I hope this will happen some day. I believe I will be happy and positive... When you believe you will be happy, you will start giving out love... you will be a good person and other people will like you. PS: Do you know? I feel like ... when I was seeking the truth about 7-8 years ago... Everyone around me spoke about God, about Jesus, about the Good Shepherd. I was certain that Christianity was a positive religion. But it wasn't... dammnit! I feel so betrayed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanta Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I personally feel emptied right now... And yes, I want to be filled again. I want to give love! I want to be happy... I want to be positive. I want so many things... This is what fills me now... I hope this will happen some day. I believe I will be happy and positive... When you believe you will be happy, you will start giving out love... you will be a good person and other people will like you. PS: Do you know? I feel like ... when I was seeking the truth about 7-8 years ago... Everyone around me spoke about God, about Jesus, about the Good Shepherd. I was certain that Christianity was a positive religion. But it wasn't... dammnit! I feel so betrayed I'm still looking, too. I think I am a seeker, but not a finder. Have you considered "Power of Now"? I started it. It shows promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritrebel Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 After reading all the postings in this thread so far, I notice that none of you has mentioned the One Big Question that Christianity claims to have the answer for: "How can I survive after my body dies?" A lot people who break free of traditional religion become materialistic atheists who say they are reconciled with the belief that, "This life is all you get, and there is no hereafter." This is an enormous step to take, and one that the vast majority of human beings have a deep-seated "instinctive": or "intuitive" aversion for. And I notice that none of you have expressed an opinion on this either way. Instead, you're discussing two concepts that really have nothing to do with "spiritual reality" as such. The first is simply the feeling that there is a "higher power" that can serve as a basis for a feeling of self-worth and inspiration to put love over hate, service over selfishness, etc. The second is the substitution of a humanistic philosophy for a philosophy based on the doctrines of a particular religion. So I'd like to know your speculations about the afterlife. I have my own belief about this, which is simply that the human soul exists and reincarnates, but that there's nothing supernatural about this. I call this concept "secular spiritualism" and it regards a certain narrow conception of the afterlife as part of nature, probable using scientific methods and supported by a great deal of evidence based on people's past-life memories and telepathic communication with disembodied spirits. Do any of you want to discuss this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted February 16, 2011 Moderator Share Posted February 16, 2011 I was talking with some ex-Christians about what I call "Positive Faith". What is this "Positive Faith"? Simply put, it's like Christianity as it had to be - a positive proclaim of love, without fear of hell, without fear of damnation, without fear of God's wrath. It's just the faith in a deity, as it's portrayed in my heart. Heart that contradicts the harsh and unjust teachings in the bible. The "Positive faith" represents my need to believe in the ultimate Good, the ultimate Love, the ultimate Divinity, the ultimate Higher power that cares for me. You want to find your positive faith? Look into your hearts... I don't know what you think about this. This is the way I wished it had of been, from the very beginning! I like it! I like it a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 When you believe you will be happy, you will start giving out love... you will be a good person and other people will like you. Happy is a lesser word. Fulfilled. If you are filled spiritually, then, you cannot help but give love. But it is not about you. It is not about your happiness. It is about being others. In this you are fulfilled, and concerns about your happiness are replaced with being Love itself. Your identity shifts away from "you". That is the heart of the spiritual Self. Is that possible? Oh yes. But it's not in seeking, but in emptying. To give is to find. Now any of the notions of afterlife are meaningless. It is the state of the eternal now. To look to after this life is still focused on yourself. The focus is not you, but not-you. That's the Well, the Source. The focus is not your ego, but your Nature. PS: Do you know? I feel like ... when I was seeking the truth about 7-8 years ago... Everyone around me spoke about God, about Jesus, about the Good Shepherd. I was certain that Christianity was a positive religion. But it wasn't... dammnit! I feel so betrayed Don't look to others for answers. It comes from inside you. Look for guidance, trust no one as the answer. You are the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Isn't this a bit like polishing a turd. No, because it's not based on the Bible or any other ancient book. It's based on emotions, feelings and rationale How can I say this without stepping on toes...... I would question why your developing your own "personal religion." I consider spirituality at times and then I realize, that whatever is truth has to be beyond what makes someone feel good, it has to have some rational reasoning behind it, even if it can't be argued or defended, it will be foolish and doing myself a injustice, to say, ohh I am just going to believe something or make something up just because I feel empty or don't like something. In short don't do something just for feelings, and check your feelings at the door when you can. Some thoughts, however unrefined. Valk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I personally feel emptied right now... And yes, I want to be filled again. I want to give love! I want to be happy... I want to be positive. I want so many things... Do you want what you had, or do you want to evolve and have something new. Is reaching for the past a good thing. This is what fills me now... I hope this will happen some day. I believe I will be happy and positive... When you believe you will be happy, you will start giving out love... you will be a good person and other people will like you. Your happiness can't be dictated by others, make yourself something, don't have you tell you good, right wrong, etc. I am not sure, but then again I don't know your mind, that your just not looking for what you once had, and not looking for a new normal. PS: Do you know? I feel like ... when I was seeking the truth about 7-8 years ago... Everyone around me spoke about God, about Jesus, about the Good Shepherd. I was certain that Christianity was a positive religion. But it wasn't... dammnit! I feel so betrayed I found one of the things, that helped me find a new normal, was actually doing things like hiking, or learning about science, and looking at how we are as related to the universe. Just some thoughts Valk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 it will be foolish and doing myself a injustice, to say, ohh I am just going to believe something or make something up just because I feel empty or don't like something. I would agree with this. I think to just go run amok off seeking a new haven for our souls without taking into account the whole person, the whole of who we are, is a misguided act. In short don't do something just for feelings, and check your feelings at the door when you can. And then when you've set aside your emotions for a time, you should take them up again and give them a voice as well, considering they are part of who you are. You shouldn't let you emotions rule you, nor should you deny them either. However that said, I think what NS is saying goes beyond just emotions. When I hear someone speak about their heart in this way, it goes much deeper than feelings. And that voice which goes much deeper than emotions should never be ignored! And that voice may not always have your logical mind up to speed yet with it. So when I hear someone suggest to "check it at the door", I hear something which is as irrational as checking your reason at the door in order to hold to a religious belief. The problem is that people confuse that "heart" with emotions. Emotions respond to it, but it itself is not sourced from emotions, nor emotions themselves. This is where I would make a distinction between faith and belief. Beliefs are what we tell ourselves are true and cognitively defend to ourselves. They are a set of views we adopt and identify ourselves with. Faith is more an intuition of some truth that is not dependent on a set of beliefs. It is more about that "heart" again, which intuits some higher reality, and through that it guides our actions. That faith is not always readily understandable rationally, nor can be accessed through reason, nor beliefs. Simply following a set of religious - or non-religious - beliefs does not grant you access to that 'intuition' or 'faith'. I personally find both religious beliefs and rationalism to be of like kind in this regard. Both become substitutes for that inner sense, or self-imposed distractions, if you will. But faith is not the end. Faith becomes supplanted by experience which grants a literal cognition, however brief into that higher state. It is the understanding of that then that cannot violate reason, even if that reason yet has the ability to process and fully understand it, nor deny its value or meaning or 'spiritual' insight into a greater sense of reality to the individual, and the world itself because reason does not yet comprehend it. Adherence to a religious set of doctrines or beliefs will seek to deny or explain it within its framework of language, and rationalism or scienticism will do likewise, as is abundantly evident, in philosophic reductionist or materialist beliefs - same animal, different coat. But experience is not the end. Adaptation is. What that means is that what we first intuit, we at some points experience, and later integrate into our whole selves, rationally, emotionally, socially, culturally. The whole person is fulfilled spirituality. The ground of our being itself and the goal of its evolution is both before and beyond the physical, the mental, the cognitive. It is that Nature that is the essence of the spiritual, and that people or religions bat about that term in their present contexts of beliefs - or present level of adaptation, does not negate nor invalidate it because their understanding is limited, if any experience is even present at all. So when I hear someone's emotions failing, feelings of emptiness, or dysfunction, then that integral balance is off. I for one find reason and rationality exhilarating, plus absolutely necessary to my own personal growth spiritually. But if I were to check part of me "at the door", then I am simply finding another belief, a new religion as it were, to replace or substitute that actual space of opening up that entire person into the world and beyond. If our emotions are 'unhappy' then that should be an indication to look at why that might be. Emotions are responses to the mind and the heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosendarkness Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Have faith in yourself. You're the only god or 'force' that has the power to create a better world for yourself and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespirit Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I am working on my "positive faith". I can't say that it has anything to do with Christianity. But I believe in faith and God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanta Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Isn't this a bit like polishing a turd. No, because it's not based on the Bible or any other ancient book. It's based on emotions, feelings and rationale How can I say this without stepping on toes...... You can say it to yourself. You're talking about your personal battle here, not his. Phanta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Isn't this a bit like polishing a turd. No, because it's not based on the Bible or any other ancient book. It's based on emotions, feelings and rationale How can I say this without stepping on toes...... You can say it to yourself. You're talking about your personal battle here, not his. Phanta Everything has to be very politically correct in this section, so I dunnno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanta Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Isn't this a bit like polishing a turd. No, because it's not based on the Bible or any other ancient book. It's based on emotions, feelings and rationale How can I say this without stepping on toes...... You can say it to yourself. You're talking about your personal battle here, not his. Phanta Everything has to be very politically correct in this section, so I dunnno. Does politically correct mean civil, decent, and supportive? Polished turd, Valk? Really?? There's a part of yourself that you're shit-hot to denigrate and reject and crush, so go crush it. But it's YOU. Get it? Not this guy. Phanta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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