Antlerman Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 I’ve been thinking that the Bible is actually quite miraculous. No matter what you believe, you can make it support you. No matter what you do, you can use it to justify yourself. No matter what someone says, you can find support for yourself in it against them. You can read it however you want to make you feel however you want; either for love and compassion; or for vengence, hate, and intolerance. Is there any piece of literature that is so flexible, so elastic that it can fit whatever you want it to? All you have to do is read it, see what you want, then believe it’s from God. It’s that simple. It’s your book to use and abuse yourself, your fellow man, or both! It’s all there in one simple book. I may be wrong, but does this make a case for it's miraculous nature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 I agree that it is extremely flexible and dynamic. It's not a sign of miraculous nature, but of intentional design by smart humans. My take on Christianity is that the religion came first, then they made a book to fit it. And they made sure the book could be used to fit all different directions at the time. (100-200 different denominations/cults already in the 2:nd and 3:d century.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 I thought miracles were supposed to be good, not evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 I agree that it is extremely flexible and dynamic. It's not a sign of miraculous nature, but of intentional design by smart humans. Please don't use the word "smart". I think "deceptive" is more like it. They wanted a reason to do anything to anyone at any time. And what better way to do that then putting it into writing as if it came from some divine source? They were some lying motherfuckers, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Maybe it was like this. Paul was delusional, Mark was a lying mutherfucker, and then all the rest of em bought into it the lie and just "dressed it up" a bit, to make it presentable. And, it didn't hurt to get the Roman Emperor on your side, to squash the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Please don't use the word "smart". I think "deceptive" is more like it. They wanted a reason to do anything to anyone at any time. And what better way to do that then putting it into writing as if it came from some divine source? They were some lying motherfuckers, nothing more. I don't see "smart" to be a problem to use, because it doesn't necessarely mean "intelligent" or "wise", just more like "clever", but that's only my personal opinion. There are smart, yet deceitful and sly, people. The way the Bible is put together is clever, because it was made to serve the purpose of making people follow the tradition of the Catholic Church. It was never intented to be read literal, studied or analyzed. It was just one of the pieces in the puzzle to confused and control people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Maybe it was like this. Or maybe, just maybe, it was like this... Paul was delusional, Mark was a lying mutherfucker, and then all the rest of em bought into it the lie and just "dressed it up" a bit, to make it presentable. And, it didn't hurt to get the Roman Emperor on your side, to squash the competition. They were all delusional, they were all lying motherfuckers, and then all the rest of'em (believers) bought into the lie and just "dressed it up" a bit, regardless of how presentable it was. Then, the Roman Emperor (in an act of deceptive desparation) saw how gullible these people really were, and used that to his advantage. Thereby placing power into the "wrong" hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 The bible and the gospel story is definitely a chameleon. I wonder just how many different religions there are out of that one book? And three-fourths of em think the other three-fourths are going to hell. Wait a minute. That's six-fourths. Lemme regroup and return to that thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicksand Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 A-man does suggest something that we god-haters , love jesus up the ass should consider - beat them at their own game. For instance, when Prey in the Colo says the bible is inerrant , it only makes the case that OT God (to be fair) is blood drinking, baby-killing, virgin for used gal piece of Xian-dfined evil. Howver, this is nothing new to apostates. They don't see it of course and only argue love and fuzzy warm feelings. Yeah yeah Pat, Hal, Delay, Bush, Luther, Anathusian.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 And three-fourths of em think the other three-fourths are going to hell. Wait a minute. That's six-fourths. Lemme regroup and return to that thought. Look, Mythra, when it comes to talking about the bible and coming up with the figures that you did, its completely legitimate. No need to regroup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Then, the Roman Emperor (in an act of deceptive desparation) saw how gullible these people really were, and used that to his advantage. Thereby placing power into the "wrong" hands. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just think how much history would've changed if Constantine hadn't done that. To this day, xtianity might be nothing more than some oddball religion that no one really believes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regencybrougham Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 The bible and the gospel story is definitely a chameleon. I wonder just how many different religions there are out of that one book? And three-fourths of em think the other three-fourths are going to hell. Wait a minute. That's six-fourths. Lemme regroup and return to that thought. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No! You've just unraveled the mystery... the TRUTH! 3/4 + 3/4 = JESUS IS LORD!!! I'm praying the sinner's prayer and reconverting immediately! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokudo Ningyou Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Just think how much history would've changed if Constantine hadn't done that. To this day, xtianity might be nothing more than some oddball religion that no one really believes in. Funny, isn't it? Everytime my roomie tries to argue over how the religion must be right because so many people believe in it, I point out that if ol' Conny hadn't forced conversion on the largest empire in the western hemisphere, he might be arguing for the spiritualism of the Native Americans instead. Christianity spread more like herpes than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero of Hyrule Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 The bible is not just one book, that's why it's so flexible. If I stick all Greek Philosophies togheter in a bokk and so that it looks like were are progressing from one to the other(A lot of copy and pasting) than I can fabricate a book that's just as flexible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel_1012 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 I’ve been thinking that the Bible is actually quite miraculous. No matter what you believe, you can make it support you. No matter what you do, you can use it to justify yourself. No matter what someone says, you can find support for yourself in it against them. You can read it however you want to make you feel however you want; either for love and compassion; or for vengence, hate, and intolerance. Is there any piece of literature that is so flexible, so elastic that it can fit whatever you want it to? All you have to do is read it, see what you want, then believe it’s from God. It’s that simple. It’s your book to use and abuse yourself, your fellow man, or both! It’s all there in one simple book. I may be wrong, but does this make a case for it's miraculous nature? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nah, you can do that with pretty much anything if a man is motivated enough. But, the fact that the Bible is the Word of God, does make it a strong target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel_1012 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 BTW, I would like to create a topic titled "Why were you a Christian" and have it pinned by "Why are you still a Christian." However, I can't post a new topic. If someone could start this, that would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Nah, you can do that with pretty much anything if a man is motivated enough. But, the fact that the Bible is the Word of God, does make it a strong target. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Prove it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Prove it... It says it is. You over complicate things. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted October 28, 2005 Author Share Posted October 28, 2005 Nah, you can do that with pretty much anything if a man is motivated enough. But, the fact that the Bible is the Word of God, does make it a strong target. I agree, yet disagree. You can stretch say the U.S. Constitution to some extent to suit your purposes, but the Bible is so much more flexible in so many more ways. It's a contribution of several factors. The first being it's as Hero of Hyrule put it; it's not just one book. It's not just one author (though you through faith alone believe it was). The original ideas are varied and not in accord with one another. Blind faith and intellectual gymnastics fail to harmonize its discrepancies. Another factor is it is an amalgam of books written and compiled in a culture 2000 plus years removed from us. It is virtually impossible to appreciate and understand the meaning through the eyes of the intended audience. Just look around the world today and see the misunderstandings that happen through differences in culture. For instance, we take the gospel of Mark to be either historically true, or an outright deceit. But consider one possibly that his audience understood the tales of Jesus to be a literary vehicle to tell an underlying idea. The point is the message, not the surrounding story. Did his very original audience really believe the loaves and fishes tale actually happened, or did they simply understand it to be as a literary style to tell a story? Yet in today's culture we assume its author was writing it to tell of actual events, either accurately or intentionally false. Now add faith to this mix that it comes from a divine source and secured through divine guidence, and it becomes empowered with far more elasticity to fit hugely varying ideas. You have not just a few different Christian groups with different ways of looking at things, but hundreds, or even thousands. Each one thinks they're reading it right and all the others aren't. Some use it to make themselves feel loved; others use it to condemn other's they don't like. Since God can't be consulted reliably, everyone's beliefs are protected. It's a perfect little self reinforcing system that way. Of course I'm being ironic that this means the bible is miraculous, since Christians always want to find things that set the book apart from others. It is however still extraordinary because of its ability to be used so ubiquitously, due to its nature of being vague and removed from our culture, and taken as words with divine sanction. Of course, I'm only looking at this from the Western perspective, and the same things can be said of other religious books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicksand Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 BTW, I would like to create a topic titled "Why were you a Christian" and have it pinned by "Why are you still a Christian." However, I can't post a new topic. If someone could start this, that would be great. You could just read the testimonies, but nah no fun there. You can't guilt someone or fudge the bible to reconvert someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 You could just read the testimonies, but nah no fun there. You can't guilt someone or fudge the bible to reconvert someone. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Has anyone ever told you that you're cynical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MQTA Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 I don't see "smart" to be a problem to use, because it doesn't necessarely mean "intelligent" or "wise", just more like "clevel", but that's only my personal opinion. There are smart, yet deceitful and sly, people. The way the Bible is put together is clever, because it was made to serve the purpose of making people follow the tradition of the Catholic Church. It was never intented to be read literal, studied or analyzed. It was just one of the pieces in the puzzle to confused and control people. 98617[/snapback] How about taking a hint from Gen 3:1 as a good description of Bible God Who really is the most subtil and crafty? Perhaps he was just projecting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MQTA Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Has anyone ever told you that you're cynical? 98744[/snapback] Isn't that supposed to be SINicle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Hello Antlerman... IMHO, FWIW... I still think that trolls hijacked the thread/manuscript from which these versions have been translated, to promote their own interpretation/agenda of it. Perhaps they thought it to be the best and true. IDK. It seems to me that much of these narratives are written as metaphors. Further, I think the foundation in knowing "God" is to ascertain what exactly is sacred to us. What constitutes finding love as the core to all things we do, including for ourself? Sometimes loving ourself is the hardest, and it seems Atheism makes positive contributions in that regard. It seems to me, the only attribute with which the character of Jesus got upset, is talking to people in a condescending manner. He only condemned those that condemn. Did his very original audience really believe the loaves and fishes tale actually happened, or did they simply understand it to be as a literary style to tell a story? Yet in today's culture we assume its author was writing it to tell of actual events, either accurately or intentionally false. 98731[/snapback] It is my opinion that this is the miracle of 'generosity'. Their generous character offered all they had to feed everyone, initiating this generosity caused generosity to be miraculously multiplied amongst the crowd. IMO, FWIW. Of course I'm being ironic that this means the bible is miraculous, since Christians always want to find things that set the book apart from others. It is however still extraordinary because of its ability to be used so ubiquitously, due to its nature of being vague and removed from our culture, and taken as words with divine sanction. Of course, I'm only looking at this from the Western perspective, and the same things can be said of other religious books. 98731[/snapback] I agree that it obviously can be seen to mean different things to different people, and many peices of literature can be discribed that way. However, I think these truths of these scriptures are being revealed as we evolve with reason. Perhaps many here are higher evolved in this regards, IDK, yet I find it hard to believe that there are not some great jewels in these teachings that are worth keeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicksand Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Has anyone ever told you that you're cynical? 98744[/snapback] Um, now that you mention it.... Isn't that supposed to be SINicle? 98775[/snapback] Yep, hang on my Pagan Holiday Tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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