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What Churches were they?


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What religion was being preached in the Churches that Paul wrote letters to?

 

Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians & Thessalonians?

 

These were the Gentile churches, right? What religion were they all, or were they different?

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Paul seems to be trying to convert as many seperate belief structures as he can. His audience in Romans ranges from Jews to Gentiles, to Pagans. He is also preaching to parallel sects like Christianity, he says as much at the end of Romans with his whole "Let not our differences seperate us" rant.

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So, what were the names of their Religions?

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So, what were the names of their Religions?

99599[/snapback]

 

Messianic Judaism Sect #124

 

Post Apocalyptic Judean Front

 

Rome Whooped Us Good, Now What Populist Movement

 

oh, and the infamous

 

And Now For Something Completely Different Peoples Liberation Group

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So in other words, you don't know

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What religion was being preached in the Churches that Paul wrote letters to?

 

Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians & Thessalonians?

 

These were the Gentile churches, right?  What religion were they all, or were they different?

99593[/snapback]

 

The people that met together in these locations probably came from several different religions originally, but the emergent Christian movement has brought them together and given some notice to Paul, where he would recognize these groups as such (Christian).

 

The question I think you are asking is "What was this very early form of Christianity?"

 

This is really the million dollar question, and no one really knows for sure. My ex-denomination would say that the first century church was the Church of Christ, or perhaps the Church of Christ is the first century church (the one TRUE church). :) Each Christian denomination today would like to claim that the original Christians worshiped as they do. Now I would probably say that the first century church was a philosophical movement; the result of the the intermingling of Greek philosophy with Judiac monotheism. The earliest Christian writings that we have today speak only of parables and philosophical witticisms, and nothing of a god-man who dies to save the world from its sins. (See the Gospel of Thomas, or the hypothetical Gospel of Q)

 

I think that the early Christians were nothing more than pagans disgruntled with their religions and looking for something fresh and new. They found something they liked about Christianity that their former religions didn't offer them, and so they took it on as their own. Although I don't think that during this time people really cared very much what religion someone professed (as there were a plethora of them), so it was not as big of a deal as changing one's religion would be today.

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What religion was being preached in the Churches that Paul wrote letters to?

 

Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians & Thessalonians?

 

These were the Gentile churches, right?  What religion were they all, or were they different?

99593[/snapback]

I think it was to Churches he had started himself. So they should have been Paul's version of Christians, but definitely were gentiles like greeks, romans etc that had been converted.

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I think it was to Churches he had started himself. So they should have been Paul's version of Christians, but definitely were gentiles like greeks, romans etc that had been converted.

99733[/snapback]

 

It doesn't say, does it? These people never heard of Christ before, Paul was bringing him to them, and then complaining that they weren't listening to him.

 

The 12, well, 11, whatever, were told to go bring the message to their flock, to NOT go preach to the Gentiles. Paul took it upon himself to go preach to them, what were they believing at that point? What were the beliefs in the Churches addressed by those letters. If they were Gentiles, it wasn't the OT. And it surely couldn't have been the OT, NOR even Mark's gospel which wasn't penned until after Paul was dead and only his letters to those churches remained.

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So, what were the names of their Religions?

99599[/snapback]

Interesting question. The word "Christians" was used by the "other" side first, not by themselves.

 

I thought we were the Popular Front Reg?  No, we're the People's Front.  What ever happened to the Popular Front?  He's over there.

99613[/snapback]

Nice to see that you're trying to stick it out Abram.

 

I think the first names were Paulinists, and later Jesusians, and then somehow Christians had a better twist to it, so it stuck with people.

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[q]

To show how a name can be used to belittle a group of people, look at the name, Christian. Christ is a transliteration of the Greek word Christos that means, anointed. (The word, TRANSLITERATION means to carry the SOUND of the word itself from one language to another. Thus, Christos in the Greek, becomes Christ when the word is Anglicized or taken into English. Transliteration IGNORES the meaning. To carry the MEANING of a word from one language to another is to TRANSLATE.)

 

The Greek word Christos translates the Hebrew word Messiah, which means anointed. It has come to mean, anointed by God. This word, Messiah, was used only for kings, prophets and priests, who were presented to the people as being sent by God for some special work. David and King Saul were also Messiahs or Christs. They were called Christos (anointed) in Greek. The Jewish people have had many claimed Messiahs, or who claimed Messiahship for themselves.

 

Ian, means little from ianos in the Greek. So the word "Christian" in English, literally means, little anointed ones.

 

"Christian" was a derogatory term used by the Romans, Jews, Greeks and others to belittle and ridicule the followers of an ancient religion called "Mithra" and later a modern outcast Jewish sect called, "The Way." Christians were called "little kings", or "little anointed ones." We do the same thing when we say, "He thinks he is a little God," or "He thinks he is a little Caesar."

 

So, the title once given to Christians as a name of mockery and deformation, they now wear proudly as a mark of distinction and martyr-hood.

 

[/q]

 

http://www.jovialatheist.com/atheism.html

 

[q]

If you can see that, you now have the best seat in the house for watching the Council of Nicaea (Nice) set up by Constantine and Titus Flavius in 325 AD. In establishing his state religion, Constantine needed to bring several feuding and persecuted religions together, all of which worshiped a Jesus Christ (a Savior Anointed) into one strong central organization that could be controlled from the top by the state. The idea was to bring together all these large and small, scattered religions that worshiped a Savior Anointed (a Jesus Christ), incorporate their sacred writings, unite their leadership and form a single strong organization that would have a deep and broad appeal.

 

This new composite (federated) religion would become the official state (political) religion. It would be coequal and fused with the Mithraic religion (worship of God through his crucified, anointed, savior Son, Mithra). It would also be fused with the official Roman derivation of the Mithraic religion, the Sol Invictus (Unconquered Sun) religion. This was the worship of God And the Emperor through Apollo and/or Mithra as the Savior Anointed (the Jesus Christ). Apollo and Mithra were symbolized as the Son of the Sun. The Sun was the visible sign of the invisible God. The soldiers and Greeks worshiped through the Persian name, Mithra, while the elite Romans worshiped through his Roman name, Sol Invictus. This was the largest and most popular religion in the Roman world.

 

Sol Invictus was the religion that worshiped God And the Emperor through Apollo or Mithra. This savior God also carried the title of Savior Anointed (Jesus Christ in English). Constantine’s new religion would become the only religion the state would recognize. All other religions that refused to join would become outlawed, persecuted and eradicated - and it became so.

 

Now Constantine (who was naturally a Sol Invictus worshiper) attached himself, as a student, to the Eastern part of the early Jewish church called "The Way." They taught a Spiritual Jesus. He became friends with Eusebius of Caesarea who worshiped this Spiritual Jesus. He also became friends with Hosius of Rome, who worshiped a materialized Human Jesus. Note this conflict!

 

These men were interested in solving the question of the divinity of the Savior (the Jesus). Was this Savior (Jesus) just a regular man with special prophetic and healing powers, or was he a spiritual being of God who did his work in the spiritual realm. Was he begotten from God, or was he God himself? Was he composed of the same stuff as God himself? Did God preexist Jesus or were they eternally one together? Eusebius was in favor of the reasoning of one, Arias, who said, the Spiritual Jesus was begotten by God. He was coequal with God but was not The God himself. Jesus was the Son of God. Therefore, he could not be The God. This Spiritual Savior did all his work in the spiritual realm.

 

However, the religion of Mithra, whose doctrines were being studied by the leaders of The Way, also worshiped their Jesus Christ (Savior Anointed) named Mithra. They had already solved this problem. Their Savior Anointed (Jesus Christ) was Mithra, a human man divinely born, in whom God (at his baptism) had been incarnated into his flesh to suffer and die for the sins of man. Thus, Mithra died in the Flesh to save the world from sin and Satan.

 

Up to this point in time, the church of The Way never claimed that their Spiritual Jesus (Savior), or their human Jesus was The God. He was the example, the pointer of the way to salvation, the first born of God and the prophet of salvation. He was the way, the truth and the life that should be followed, and thereby, one would receive God’s salvation.

 

[/q]

 

http://www.jovialatheist.com/biblehistory.html

 

What were those churches, and did those letters work? Doesn't seem so, not until many years later, after the war, after the Marks and Matts and Lukes and out of this world John and then Constantine and all the rest.

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Guest Barabus
I thought we were the Popular Front Reg?  No, we're the People's Front.  What ever happened to the Popular Front?  He's over there.

99613[/snapback]

"Splitter!"

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It doesn't say, does it?  These people never heard of Christ before, Paul was bringing him to them, and then complaining that they weren't listening to him.

 

The 12, well, 11, whatever, were told to go bring the message to their flock, to NOT go preach to the Gentiles.  Paul took it upon himself to go preach to them, what were they believing at that point?  What were the beliefs in the Churches addressed by those letters.  If they were Gentiles, it wasn't the OT.  And it surely couldn't have been the OT, NOR even Mark's gospel which wasn't penned until after Paul was dead and only his letters to those churches remained.

99738[/snapback]

 

Look, determining who Paul was preaching to is pretty complicated. Moreso then is made out by the longer post you have. In fact that does nothing to answer the question. What you first need to determine is when he was writing.

 

If we examine Paul's writing itself we see he only knew general information about Jesus, and his letters lack the detail of later authors that clearly had the Gospel accounts. My guess from this is he was writing before the Gospels. He certainly was writing no later than 100 CE because other epistles from then and later via. Clement, Polycarp, and Ignatius clearly had far more detail at their disposal.

 

Now, Romans makes it pretty clear that he talking to Jews or at least people with strong Jewish background, as his usage and explination of the law in the beginning of Romans suggests. Now if he was telling Jews to pitch out the Law before Rome destroyed Jerusalem, they would have stoned him to death on the spot. What he was telling them violates everything a person of Jewish religious background would hold sacred(the law, one true God, God's chosen people etc etc). Paul defiles all of those with his suggestion to follow Christ. So when would he have gotten away with that? Could only be after 73CE.

 

So now you have a window of 73-100CE. The groups you're looking for are in there somewhere, though I haven't seen much of their record in history.

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I thought it was a commonly accepted notion that Paul died in the Nero persection in the mid-60' C.E. (Beheaded, I believe)

 

I realize it's only church tradition that tells us this. But is there any evidence to the contrary?

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I thought it was a commonly accepted notion that Paul died in the Nero persection in the mid-60' C.E.  (Beheaded, I believe)

 

I realize it's only church tradition that tells us this.  But is there any evidence to the contrary?

99774[/snapback]

 

I would say, and did say, that a critical examination of his writing indicates otherwise. Unless you can explain to me why Jews would let him live preaching that shit that early.

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OH, good points there Clergicide.

 

The reason I ask is, if Paul was going to these Gentile Churches, WHAT was the religion/beliefs being preached in them, before Paul got to them, to give them Jesus. They didn't have Jesus as the focal point in the church, so what was the religion(s) of those churches.

 

Romans isn't a letter to the churches as I listed above.

 

It's also presumed on many sites that Paul wrote in the 60's, the language pointed out as being post 70 was from the later writings that are attributed to Paul but don't have the same vocab or consistency (as per Paul Tobin's site, and others)

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